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Poll: Best players forged CB irons ?

Which forged CB iron is the best of the best ?  

142 members have voted

  1. 1. Only the best forged players cavityback iron is good enough for me !

    • Miura Cb-1006
      30
    • Epon Type J
      37
    • G-Field Nc-1
      12
    • Honma Beres Tw901
      6
    • Tourstage X-Blade CB 2
      16
    • Mizuno Mp-60/32 Satin custom_grind
      31
    • Bridgestone J33 combo
      10


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Morning Claus,

I have only hit the CB 201's at a fitting session on the range, they had not been set up for me and perhaps the shafts in the demo clubs were not perfect for me, so comparisons are difficult. IMO the head shape of the CB 1006's is much more pleasing than the CB201's, partricularly in the shorter irons. The feel of both is very similar, as they should be, same materials, same triple forging process. The CB 1006's seem to have a smaller, more compact head, I have not compared them side by side, it is just my impression, I am sure that Chris would be able to confirm this, or not! Certainly the soft ( some have described it as buttery) feel of a centre hit is the sweetest thing I have ever experienced, as good if not better than the best Mizuno's (TP11's in my opinion).

The debate over the spin welded hosels fascinates me, Miura claim that this technique ensures perfect alignment, consistent hosel depths and prolonged periods between lie adjustments. I am not sure about the argument that it saves tooling costs, every head in the CB 1006 set is slightly different, probably as a result of the finishing process but there must be at least 3 different forging dies for a complete head set and because they are a soft forging each hosel could easily be bent to give the desired loft ( which is what other forging houses do - I am told), so whether there is any cost saving in this I am not convinced!

The obvious quality of the Miura product convinced me to invest in a set, when I received them I was very impressed with both the quality, the aesthetics and the perfect weight balance, now that I have used them on the course and at the range I know that I made the right decision, they are the best set of irons I have ever owned ( I have, at the last count, had over 50 sets!, but as this is in 30 years of playing I think it is not excessive!). I cannot see myself parting with these ever, this does not mean that I won't be adding to my collection - still fancying those type J's!!!

Nick

If Miura will continue the same forging tradition in Taiwan, I can respect it - but what often happens when companies move abroad to save money, is that the quality control and quality of craftmnaship takes a step down and not up :tsg_smiley_no:

But if the Cb-1006 irons are indeed produced and forged in Taiwan, Miura must have done something right when he moved some of his mass production plant to Taiwan.

I've owned both the Cb-201 and now the Cb-301. I can conclude that the Cb-301 plays and seem to be softer than the Cb-201. The word is that the international Miura stuff, like the Cb-201 and Cb-301 supposedly should not be of the same high quality as the stuff Miura launches for the Japanese and Asian market. This might be rumours and if the Cb-1006, which is an asian only product, is also forged in Taiwan - I really can't see what the difference in the international Miura stuff and the Asisn Miura stuff should be :tsg_smilie_whistle:

How would you compare the Cb-201 to your Cb-1006 irons in terms of feel, forgiveness and overall clubhead design, Nick ?

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Morning Claus,

I have only hit the CB 201's at a fitting session on the range, they had not been set up for me and perhaps the shafts in the demo clubs were not perfect for me, so comparisons are difficult. IMO the head shape of the CB 1006's is much more pleasing than the CB201's, partricularly in the shorter irons. The feel of both is very similar, as they should be, same materials, same triple forging process. The CB 1006's seem to have a smaller, more compact head, I have not compared them side by side, it is just my impression, I am sure that Chris would be able to confirm this, or not! Certainly the soft ( some have described it as buttery) feel of a centre hit is the sweetest thing I have ever experienced, as good if not better than the best Mizuno's (TP11's in my opinion).

The debate over the spin welded hosels fascinates me, Miura claim that this technique ensures perfect alignment, consistent hosel depths and prolonged periods between lie adjustments. I am not sure about the argument that it saves tooling costs, every head in the CB 1006 set is slightly different, probably as a result of the finishing process but there must be at least 3 different forging dies for a complete head set and because they are a soft forging each hosel could easily be bent to give the desired loft ( which is what other forging houses do - I am told), so whether there is any cost saving in this I am not convinced!

The obvious quality of the Miura product convinced me to invest in a set, when I received them I was very impressed with both the quality, the aesthetics and the perfect weight balance, now that I have used them on the course and at the range I know that I made the right decision, they are the best set of irons I have ever owned ( I have, at the last count, had over 50 sets!, but as this is in 30 years of playing I think it is not excessive!). I cannot see myself parting with these ever, this does not mean that I won't be adding to my collection - still fancying those type J's!!!

Nick

Good morning Nick :tsg_smilie_smile:

Interesting question concerning the spin welded hosel - don't know if we will ever come to a final and satisfactory answer to this - but I'll still find it interesting to debate this subject.

Hope others will chime in with their questions and answers too :tsg_smilie_cool:

You really must like the Epon Type J irons if you consider buying them (you recently bought the Cb-1006 irons). I must say that I like the design of the type J more and more. If only I could get them in satin finish, I would have pulled the trigger on them and bought them. Just don't fancy shiny chrom irons that much. It's too easy to see dings, scratches and marks on chrom compared to satin finish, which seems more durable and does not show marks and dings from bag chatter.

Edited by Claus

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That is the reason that I have'nt bought them, the experiences that I have with chromed irons has made me wary of further purchases. I always wipe every iron after every shot and thoroughly clean them after every round, but no matter what I do I can never seem to stop them marking up. My Cb 1006's are showing no marks at all after 12 rounds - very impressive for a soft forging!

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You have same opinion as I do when talking about how soft Miura's feel - they feel softer than retail MP Mizuno irons in my view - and you feel that way too. You also feel that the Endo forgings feel a bit clicky compared to Miura and Mizuno forgings and this is also my experience.

I get confused when Chris The TSG man tells me that Endo forgings are much softer than Miura, maybe because Miura uses spin welded hosels, which in Chris' opinion gives the Miura a more firm feel, which will make it harder to make the Miura's come out of lie and loft from hitting on hard range mats.

This is the totally opposite experience from the one we share - and I have to agree, that Chris has tested 1000 of irons more than I have....so why do we feel like Endo forgings are clicky and Miura forgings are soft and even softer than Mizuno forgings, when Miura uses spin welded hosels which should give the Miuras a firmer feel ??? :tsg_smilie_whistle: :tsg_smilie_confused: :tsg_smilie_whistle:

MUST KNOW WHY THIS IS SO :tsg_smilie_wah:

endo is not endo, tourstage endo isnt the same as endo epon or titleist tour endo etc..

design - manufacturing - finish - material are all different so please erase the notion that all endo is the same out of your mind.

when you hit epon next to miura you will know the difference. you cant hit one iron one month then try to remember how the last set felt. you honestly dont remember and thats why when companies like golf labs does iron testing or driver testing the tester hits 1 club maybe 2 types at the most because humans like to mix it all up into a pile of steamy confusion. thats the HU element for us.

Nothing beats a low heat forged single piece of high quality endo steel with NiCr20 finish.

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Good morning Nick :tsg_smilie_smile:

Interesting question concerning the spin welded hosel - don't know if we will ever come to a final and satisfactory answer to this - but I'll still find it interesting to debate this subject.

Hope others will chime in with their questions and answers too :tsg_smilie_cool:

You really must like the Epon Type J irons if you consider buying them (you recently bought the Cb-1006 irons). I must say that I like the design of the type J more and more. If only I could get them in satin finish, I would have pulled the trigger on them and bought them. Just don't fancy shiny chrom irons that much. It's too easy to see dings, scratches and marks on chrom compared to satin finish, which seems more durable and does not show marks and dings from bag chatter.

type J isnt chrome, its a bushed NiCr20 with mirror polished accents. A similar finish is being used by Tourstage in 2007. I dont think this sort of finish will hit any Iron in the usa due to cost.

in regards to miuras not dinging or marking up easy its because they are not as soft due to the spin welded hosels. choose the feel you want cause its all individual but im telling you from experience when a company goes that route its 99% of the time to save money, if they want to spin it and say consistent hosel depth and durability...lol yea right as if other brands are not doing that with their one piece heads. Its marketing guys the only truth is the loft and lies dont bend as quick.

lets look at the math. say its 10-15k per loft/die tooling. with spin welded hosels you dont need to buy 10, just around 4. thats a very big savings, I sat in with G-field about tooling for woods and the NC-1, spin welded was a must if they were to launch 3-4 sets of new irons in 2006. since they only did 2 they could afford tooling costs for each head from dynamix factory.

Another thing worth to note is when bending the loft and lie there is a huge difference between the soft bend of 1 piece vs spin welded. good or bad thats for you to decide. some pro's want clicky, some want soft.

OEMs are famous for spinning cost saving methods into a great new technology. If you guys dont agree no problem lets just not confuse everyone else on the board based on miuras reason of why they choose spin welded hosels.

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There is a definite noticeable difference in the feel of the spin welded hosel vs the one piece forging. I find the the spin welded is much firmer, not a soft! To me if you are spending extra cash on a set of forged heads it is a MUST to get a set with one piece forging - this way you will actually feel the difference!

This is my opinion and I am not dissing miura - however the softer feel is just more to my taste.

Would the likes of tourstage be spin welded necks chris or one piece?

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type J isnt chrome, its a bushed NiCr20 with mirror polished accents. A similar finish is being used by Tourstage in 2007. I dont think this sort of finish will hit any Iron in the usa due to cost.

in regards to miuras not dinging or marking up easy its because they are not as soft due to the spin welded hosels. choose the feel you want cause its all individual but im telling you from experience when a company goes that route its 99% of the time to save money, if they want to spin it and say consistent hosel depth and durability...lol yea right as if other brands are not doing that with their one piece heads. Its marketing guys the only truth is the loft and lies dont bend as quick.

lets look at the math. say its 10-15k per loft/die tooling. with spin welded hosels you dont need to buy 10, just around 4. thats a very big savings, I sat in with G-field about tooling for woods and the NC-1, spin welded was a must if they were to launch 3-4 sets of new irons in 2006. since they only did 2 they could afford tooling costs for each head from dynamix factory.

Another thing worth to note is when bending the loft and lie there is a huge difference between the soft bend of 1 piece vs spin welded. good or bad thats for you to decide. some pro's want clicky, some want soft.

OEMs are famous for spinning cost saving methods into a great new technology. If you guys dont agree no problem lets just not confuse everyone else on the board based on miuras reason of why they choose spin welded hosels.

:tsg_smilie_confused: I may as well ask the question, how does Mizuno do their irons, spin welded or one piece??

To say I have learnt something on this thread is an understatement :tsg_smilie_cool:

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plus 1:

if you have hit the epon x and the gauge(g field)nc1 irons, which to you has the softer feel, and which is more forgiving. if you've hit the miura, categorize that too if you can.

thanks

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Thanks for your reply to me, Chris :atsg_logo_anim: :tsg_smilie_smile:

I've learned something new today, but I still have a couple of questions for you :tsg_smiley_homer:

1. Is Mizuno irons forged using one piece forging or spin welded hosels

2. The stuffe Endo does for Titleist and Bridgestone in the US market, is this forged using one piece forgings or using spin welded hosels - because Titleist irons to me seems quite a bit more clicky than both Miura and Mizuno retail irons. Brigestone irons however seems a bit more soft than Titleist irons, and I know for a fact that Endo has forged all Bridgestone irons and a great deal of the Titleist irons.

The Brigestone irons I've tried/owned are: J33.cb and J33 combo

The Titleist irons I've tried are: 735.cm(carbon steel edt.), 704.cb(stainles steel), 690.cb(carbon steel)

3. With your knowledge of forgings and the number of irons you've tested in your lifetime, which sets of irons would you choose as being the softest feeling and BEST performing irons you've tested and played with ?

I'm guessing Epon type J, but maybe you have other favorites I don't know of ?

Thanks for your help :tsg_smilie_cool:

Edited by Claus

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I am very impressed with the argument put forward by TourSpec golfer and bow to his greater knowledge, I certainly did not want to confuse any TSG'ers! For me, who plays a couple of times a week during the winter and nearly every day in the summer (damned achilles tendon permitting!), the advantages of not having to have loft and lies checked as frequently with the spin welded hosels is significant. So maybe I have made the right decision in opting for the Miura's, certainly the feel off the club face is very rewarding, perhaps I am fortunate that I can hit the sweet spot more often than not!

Like Claus I am eagerly awaiting Chris' reply because I plan to have a clearout of my garage to make room for another set of irons! Short list at the moment: Epon Type 'J', Tourstage X-Blade, Bridgestone J33b, PRGR (love my T3 driver), Miura Tour Blades. No particular order, I still love blades and if I sell my Maxfli's and my Hogans, I will have to replace them with a Blade - all help and suggestions gladly received!

Nick

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Yeahh.....I have a lot of respect for Srixon irons.

The I-506 and I-302 were both great sets for the European market, but also the new ZR-600 and I-505 for the Asian market seems to be great (and maybe even greater) sets of irons - but I don't like the look of Srixon irons. Can't stand the red color in the cavity and the overall design of the cavity - it's not a classic simple design like the other contendersin my poll.

The G-Field Nc-1 is also an irons on the aggresive side, when it comes to the desaign of the cavity - but I opted for it anyway and will consider it as my next set if irons, allthough I'm leaning most towards the Miura Cb-1006, Custom grind Mizuno combo and Homna Beres TW901.....

For that reason will a set of Srixon irons never be among the irons I consider as my next set of irons.

But thanks for your suggestion anyway :tsg_smiley_yes:

I had second thoughts about the TM R7 forged Japan Limited iron, but I don't know why - just don't fancy this particular iron that much. Don't know who forged the irons (Not Miura and I guess not Endo either) and don't know if I like Taylor Made irons in my bag......

But I might consider it, if only I knew who forged this iron - is it Japan forged ?

Than you haven't seen the I-404s. 118246.jpg Not much Red either and easy enough to change.

Edited by goodvibes

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Mizuno forgings are top notch, they have a plant they use in Chuo and they also use ENDO Japan and several others including Miura.

Cant go wrong with mizuno, if you need U.S Spec or Japan spec let me know we have great prices and many custom options.

As far as quality feel in great forged product there are just to many to list, all japanese or endo forged product with a quality finish with some sort of nickel in it, a good shaft and grip should feel very nice. Dont forget the grip and shaft has some play in the feel factor.

Fourteens are very soft, even their casting. Tourstage has them new ViQ Forged irons that feel very sweet, especially in NS1150 or black golds. Just about any Srixon Iron should be on that list of quality, feel is above average too but not tops. Epon is a combo of great steel, and an advanced finish, it only gets better with black gold, TC, or NS1150. Custom Mizuno irons rock as well, the Japanese brushed nickel finish feels much softer than what you get from the retail offerings. G-Field is another brand ask plus1 for his feedback on these, soft forgiving no offset yet without a paper thin topline, this thing actually has onset. Miuras are quality but dont feel as soft as others, not knocking them at all.

I only know of miura using spin welded hosels, have not heard of other brands doing so. If you guys have any questions i will do my best to answer, this year there are so many quality import options for the golfer its not even funny.

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Mizuno forgings are top notch, they have a plant they use in Chuo and they also use ENDO Japan and several others including Miura.

Cant go wrong with mizuno, if you need U.S Spec or Japan spec let me know we have great prices and many custom options.

As far as quality feel in great forged product there are just to many to list, all japanese or endo forged product with a quality finish with some sort of nickel in it, a good shaft and grip should feel very nice. Dont forget the grip and shaft has some play in the feel factor.

Fourteens are very soft, even their casting. Tourstage has them new ViQ Forged irons that feel very sweet, especially in NS1150 or black golds. Just about any Srixon Iron should be on that list of quality, feel is above average too but not tops. Epon is a combo of great steel, and an advanced finish, it only gets better with black gold, TC, or NS1150. Custom Mizuno irons rock as well, the Japanese brushed nickel finish feels much softer than what you get from the retail offerings. G-Field is another brand ask plus1 for his feedback on these, soft forgiving no offset yet without a paper thin topline, this thing actually has onset. Miuras are quality but dont feel as soft as others, not knocking them at all.

I only know of miura using spin welded hosels, have not heard of other brands doing so. If you guys have any questions i will do my best to answer, this year there are so many quality import options for the golfer its not even funny.

Chris, I simply must thank you once again for spreading your knowledge out in this forum :tsg_smiley_homer:

You got a very good point when you conclude that also grips and shafts are an important factor when determing feel and softness in an iron.

Do you happen to know if the Beres Tw901 is forged or cast. Just heard a surprising rumour suggesting the Tw901 is cast and not forged :tsg_smilie_whistle: :tsg_smilie_confused:

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Than you haven't seen the I-404s. 118246.jpg Not much Red either and easy enough to change.

This looks much like the old I-302 iron - do you know what differentiates them ?

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This is the extremely pedantic part of the thread.

Firstly I acknowledge the NS 1150s are gun. Fantastic really.

I have read most of the post and survey results.

The real question are we buying the the G-Field NC1s or the Gauge Studio hand mades :tsg_smilie_confused: :tsg_smilie_confused: ???

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This looks much like the old I-302 iron - do you know what differentiates them ?

Smaller head, narrower sole, higher CG. The weight in the cavity doesn't extend out to the back of the sole and stays closer to the face like other player cavities and unlike the 302s. The understated dark color of the weighting works really well here unlike the funky looking Bridgestone GCs.

Edited by goodvibes

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I haven't hit everything made but I've owned and hit more than my share.

The R7 Forged and the Epon Type J's are 2 of the top players cavities

on the planet IMO---with the Epons taking over the bag

Neither one has any offset to speak of, forgiving, great setup at address,

very playable, and the feel is unmatched

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The thread, and the choices just grow and grow! I feel that poor Claus will be bewildered by the choice of excellent forged irons that are available, and we still don't appear to have a clear winner!

As Chris pointed out when you have finally made a choice of which forged head you prefer, then you have to get the right shaft and grips. I am sure that my Miura's feel so good because I went for the Nippon NS Pro 950 GH shafts, they really do complement the Miura heads, being light but with plenty of feel, good distance and excellent control. I pondered long and hard about grips, considered the Iomics and the new multi coloured offerings from both Golf Pride and Lambkin, eventually was very boring and stuck with Tour Velvets, they just feel right for me.

Now here is another question - Logo Up or Down?

My PRGR Driver has a Winn AV grip in red and black, it is so good that I may regrip my irons with this option!

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plus 1:

if you have hit the epon x and the gauge(g field)nc1 irons, which to you has the softer feel, and which is more forgiving. if you've hit the miura, categorize that too if you can.

thanks

i would rather compare the type js that i owned to the nc1s. For me the nc1 was a better fit - the g field nc1 iron is not as soft, it has a slightly firmer feel, comes of the face slightly faster and is probably more durable in terms of dings etc. The type js have a crazy sweet soft feel - they really felt like butter! The type j for some strange reason did not suit me - and when compared side by side with the nc1, for my game i had to choose the nc1 - i actually loved the feel of the epon type j sooooooo much that i had to buy the type x to see if they suited any better!

IMO i much prefer the epon and the g field to the miuras, although the miuras are very playable and do give a decent feel at impact - i certainly noticed a much greater feel and overall benefit from the nc1 / epon irons.

PS on a side note - the older gauge design irons, produced in their japan factory in limited quantities were the best feeling irons i have ever hit! truely outstanding! but the epon were not far behind....

- also on the point that all ENDO is the same - :tsg_smilie_whistle: :tsg_smiley_laughatyou:, sorry but i had to lol....i have had tity tour endos, epons and a many tourstage - and for sure - 100% gaurentee EPON feel is the most pure!

Edited by plus1

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This is the extremely pedantic part of the thread.

Firstly I acknowledge the NS 1150s are gun. Fantastic really.

I have read most of the post and survey results.

The real question are we buying the the G-Field NC1s or the Gauge Studio hand mades :tsg_smilie_confused: :tsg_smilie_confused: ???

This is a great point and one that i feel needs answered - In terms of the feel there is no doubt that the handmades / older gauge are softer and have greater feel than the newer g field nc1 model, and it is most likely than people will be buying the g field nc1s rather than the more rare handmades! - However this cannot and should not take away from the great feel of the g field nc1! They are actually in a line up for my gamer set at the minute and as a players cavity they yield great feel, great feedback and still the forgiveness that all gauge clubs have! its a great buy

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BE,

Love to hear that the 'handmades' are still in the bag / although when you finally decide to retire them (& if d**ksy doesn't snatch them up) you know where to send them. :tsg_smiley_yes:

I just wanted to offer a bit of insight in regards to the new 14 line up. I received a set of TB1000 forged a few days back & had the opportunity to get them on the course the both yesterday & today. (I ordered them stock & have not had the opportunity to set them up to my specs as of yet / they'll be rebuilt with Brushed TCI's, 1* strong, 1* up / s300's currently) I don't want to provide a full review as I don't think its fair due to lack of time spent with the set & as mentioned, they have yet to be 'customized' However, I do believe these are a super high quality offering for anyone who's on the hunt for a new set of irons.

My Game:

7.7 handi

keep ball in play / average length off tee (98 -104)

iron game/short game is my strength

can't putt to save my life @ present (shot 80 on Tuesday with 38 putts / OUCH! :tsg_smilie_wah: )

Anyway, the 14's are a very forgiving mb for sure. Due to their low cg & impeccable grind, they are very playable & offer the opportunity to hit a vast array of shots. Don't get me wrong, my current set up (RAC Milled Protos / with Brushed TCI's) is certainly more forgiving & pretty much offers = shot making capabilities, but the feel of the 14's on well struck hits is pretty darn sweet. I'm certain & as suggested by Chris, once these get the TCI treatment, they will feel even softer, smoother no doubt. If you're pondering the thought of purchasing either the tb's or 770's, I say go for it as you will not be disappointed. I think I may be in line for a set of 770's myself! :tsg_smilie_cool: :tsg_smilie_whistle: :tsg_smilie_money3:

On another note, I also found a set of TM Firesole Tour Hgrinds (miura forged) in recent weeks & I have to say, of every set I've ever hit (23 cb's, z101's, miura 201's, 301's 1006's, nc-1's, mb2's, type j's, rac protos, 14's, etc.) these are the 'softest' imo. I know we're all searching for a different feel @ impact, but for me personally, the softer the better & the hgrinds are a clear winner in that category. (brushed tci's as well)

I've been promising yourpressed some pics of the current 'stable' & I will do my best to quality shots (resized of course) up in the what's in the bag section asap.

Dave

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D, you've actually been out playing golf? How's the weather been? Here in TO it's either below freezing or plain wet....

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TC,

We've been pretty fortunate. Last week was real warm with temps it the high 50's / this week 50* or so. (turf is soft but hasn't rained in a bit, so not too bad at all)

Dave

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Great news dave, Glad you are enjoyingf the new weapons. Im sorry to tell you that the handmades have not been in the bag in a while - i cannot bring myself you use them ----they are so darn pretty. So it looks liek they will never leave me lol! Hence the search for a set of gamers.....

However if your even in Ireland we can hook up and you can have a game with the greats!

How the game going - as TC says its a bit unexpected you playing at this time of yr!!!!!!

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You guys/gals are the best. I've been researching in getting new irons as well as a new driver and all the info I've read here has been truly helpful.

I've been playing with the Mizuno T-Zpod Pro II for a looooooonnnnnnggg time now and I feel it's time to change. I even had those irons ColdFired (cryogenic freezing) just to maintain the structural integrity of the steel but when I stumbled into this website it seems that I'm playing modern golf with antique equipment.

It seems that most feel the Epon J is either their 1st or 2nd choice so that's what I'm leaning towards but on another review, I believe TourspecGolfer is now trying the new Bridgestone 2007 irons and is infatuated with those. For him to switch to the Bridgestone (if he does) after he raved about the Epon J is going to keep me on the sidelines until he states an obvious preference considering he's one of the lucky ones who gets to play around with all the goodies!

As far as drivers, it seems that most like the Epon 460? Am I right on that? Most of what I've seen on the bags have the Epon 460 as their driver.

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