$1000 premium shafts vs the crazy and quadras?

[Spoon]

guys ive noticed more of the $1000 retail shafts coming up, brands like the ozik tp7hd and fuji bangvoo come to mind, even diamana stinger protos although nowhere near 1k

are still in the $750 region. now the crazy shafts have some in the 4,5,6 all the way up the 800$ region just wondering how these would stack against the ozik and fuji shafts i mentioned?

and now theres the quadra with there most expensive offering a mere bargain at $400+. had many sleepless nights as i have never paid more than 3 bills for a shaft but bit the bullet and have never regretted it. you only flinch once. as i was surfing the net, i never realized that the crazys are much much more expensive than the quads. was shocked to see that they were nearing the ridiculous prices of the tp7hd and bangvoo. ive heard the merits of the 80 and 90t thing and am very much enjoying my 80t fire express but cannot imagine them being half the price of another 80t crazy shaft. nor can i imagine the tp7hd being almost more than double than the Fire express 80t shaft.

[idrive]

IMHO,

Quadra has eliminated the middleman... they manufacture the carbon sheets so don't have to pay a marked up price for the CF sheets.

Also, advertising costs plenty... I don't see quadra and crazy advertising like Fuji, matrix and the others do. Newer companies will sometimes

keep a lower price point to get their foot in the door, after much success and the demand goes up I think you'll see the price points creep

up more in line with the others.

get them while they're cheap!!!

Edited February 16, 2011 by idrive

[Duffer19]

It is not the cost that dictates the merit or suitability of the shaft. I had the Crazy for a month and just could not make it work then switched to FE with almost the same spec and couldn't be happier. At the same time, Roddio does nothing for me while the Machline Proto is one of my favourites at half the cost of the Roddio. Unfortunately getting a premium shaft is always a small risk if you don't have a chance to test it before hand.

[gocchin]

Duffer pretty much said it and is wise as always.

Price tags in the end mean nothing if a shaft does not work for you.

There is no doubting the materials and designs of many of these expensive shafts but as you know, just because a shaft has full length 80t and is made by long drivers doesn't mean anyone who buys it will miraculously gain 20 yards or even have that shaft perform for them.

With all the choices out there, its getting harder and harder to make the right choice.

As you can imagine, I help fitting customers every day and there is no exact science.

I have to rely on the player giving me accurate info about their swing but sadly so many times people's estimations of their own swings and distances are way off which makes choosing the right shaft even harder.

Some players say "I swing around 90mph and drive the ball 260" others say "I swing around 98 mph and drive the ball 230" or "I swing around 105mph and am currently playing R flex".

Fitting aside, at the end of the day no matter what the price tag, its all about finding the right shaft for each individual and it ain't easy or cheap.

Duffer struggled with the Longest Yard but on the other hand for me I had some of the best success of any shaft with the Longest Yard.

The FE55 was so so for me in my driver so I passed it on to Duffer who as he said loves it.

Jeff is also correct that Quadra is a manufacturer of high carbon sheets and supply many of the top brands with the 50t to 80t carbon which push the price up.

Also what many of these manufacturers do not reveal is how much of the shaft is actually 80t? Crazy is expensive because their 80 series use full length 80t sheets for every layer butt to tip.

Whereas something like the XDB has less sheets of high end carbon only in a small area. (Quadra I would assume also uses full length carbon).

Fuji's Bangvoo has been talked about on this site but honestly in Japan, it does not have the same buzz. I think the Crazy 80t shafts are the superior shafts (in most cases) and have a much bigger hardcore following.

There are many "hardcore enthusiasts" like you and I and Stew and idrive, who swear by the high end shafts because they work, and because they work, we are willing to pay for them, and because we are willing to pay for them, they keep making them and raising the price on us!!!

[Spoon]

all of you have answered my questions!

@idrive you are right with the middleman thing. just wondering if crazy manufactures their own or if they source it from somewhere else? if they dont make their own then that makes sense.

duffer, i totally agree with you, none of the roddios and high end shafts worked for me i had some success with the tour ad line but i had the best success with an american speced oban devotion shaft which retails for $100+ dollars, that was my go to shaft for years before getting the quadra shaft which in my opinion has everything i am looking for in a shaft. as for the machline, to be honest that was the only shaft the fw75s was the only shaft that worked for my epon 202ht, tried oban revenge, devotion, GD matrix nada none worked. my dad commented that hes spent over 1k on shafts and in the end is perfectly happy with a $40 paragon stock shaft for his KZG q wood.

Gocchin, i have never spent that much money on a shaft like i did with the quadra took at least 3 rounds to get perfectly acquainted but i love it. i have tried the crazy longest yard and the crazy black 80 and they felt awful to me. played them to my specs and they were stiff, too low launch and just did not work. but to others they are crown jewels. i guess i took a chance with the quadras and they paid off. thanks!

[gocchin]

Gocchin, i have never spent that much money on a shaft like i did with the quadra took at least 3 rounds to get perfectly acquainted but i love it. i have tried the crazy longest yard and the crazy black 80 and they felt awful to me. played them to my specs and they were stiff, too low launch and just did not work. but to others they are crown jewels. i guess i took a chance with the quadras and they paid off. thanks!

Hi C,

If they felt too stiff and launched too low then they were probably not to your spec.

The Longest Yard has great feel and technically has more feel than the Quadra FE.

It is also not a low launcher.

But you're absolutely right, not every shaft works for everyone and if the quadra works for you then you should definitely stick with it. (^_^)

[Spoon]

Hi C,

If they felt too stiff and launched too low then they were probably not to your spec.

The Longest Yard has great feel and technically has more feel than the Quadra FE.

It is also not a low launcher.

But you're absolutely right, not every shaft works for everyone and if the quadra works for you then you should definitely stick with it. (^_^)

i guess your right, what i meant to say is that i generally use 75s but went down to a 65s. for the crazy i tried the 65xs and they just did not

feel right. i guess they played too stiff for me. i heard crazy plays stiffer to flex compared to other makes.

will defintely give crazy another chance. well its either that or the new proto fex for the new driver on april

[Mjr. D]

Have the Crazy 50 and the 80FW. It's the first time i've used a shaft and the difference is 100% legit. Not "ah, I spent $350, I think this is a little straighter or a little longer" self-convince job. No, from the first time I used these Crazy offerings, there was a substantial improvement in dispersion and distance. And like i've said before, I hate the Crazy name, their graphics and their cheesiness but their products are legit.

[jamnguy1]

For those who are discerning enough and have enough experience with lots of equipment, the quality in the crazy and quadra shafts can easily be appreciated even if a particular shaft doesn't work for one's swing. I bought several crazy shafts in different flexes to find the right one. I compared it with the quadra as well and found I liked the crazy better.

[Spoon]

For those who are discerning enough and have enough experience with lots of equipment, the quality in the crazy and quadra shafts can easily be appreciated even if a particular shaft doesn't work for one's swing. I bought several crazy shafts in different flexes to find the right one. I compared it with the quadra as well and found I liked the crazy better.

wow! i guess there is a crazy out there for me! what would you reckon is closest to the FEX 65s?

[supo]

wow! i guess there is a crazy out there for me! what would you reckon is closest to the FEX 65s?

in crazy?

prob the tj 46 that sound about right T ?

the crazy 80 and 50 are the best "feeling " distance low spin shafts ive hit. the tj 46 longest yard is like an elastic bullet. just keep going. not the best feeling of the crazys but results. pretty hard to top!

the quadra is the best performer for price by a country mile. nothing in the same class, league ,hell not even in the same sport!

the new proto is a differnt fish tho. a lot more like the crazy, tighter, more stingy, but stil hasnt got that tip to toe sensation that crazy manage to get. the proto is all tip all finger, its electric, the FE is a more rounded feel. the crazy is like ..................,well, a merceds 600.

the only reason ican think of why the FE dont absolutley dominate that top end section is they DONT advertise anywere.

im thinking this might be the same as why epon dont adverise , i presume its beceause they make everyone sheets so they dont want to step on toes of the OEMS, perhaps??

if u can find them , great ull find a fabulous shaft priced differntly to the oems and chaeper than the uber shafts. they did that REALLY well.

ill cetianly be asking quadra-san this tomorow!

they should be right on the door of no 1 seller (top end ) , if they advertised i have NO doubt they would go really close.

shigeki maruyama gamed the FE not long ago, but to very little fanfare. and hes NOT a bad player . but i hardly heard a peep about it.

[Spoon]

the only reason ican think of why the FE dont absolutley dominate that top end section is they DONT advertise anywere.

im thinking this might be the same as why epon dont adverise , i presume its beceause they make everyone sheets so they dont want to step on toes of the OEMS, perhaps??

if u can find them , great ull find a fabulous shaft priced differntly to the oems and chaeper than the uber shafts. they did that REALLY well.

ill cetianly be asking quadra-san this tomorow!

they should be right on the door of no 1 seller (top end ) , if they advertised i have NO doubt they would go really close.

shigeki maruyama gamed the FE not long ago, but to very little fanfare. and hes NOT a bad player . but i hardly heard a peep about it.

that makes total sense! crazy doesnt manufacture their own sheets? can you verify? anyway im really happy with the quads

and wont be getting anything soon. well maybe the proto FEX on april when my new head comes.

[gocchin]

Yes I've mentioned several times, Crazy does not make the carbon sheets. The do not have the capacity to do so. They only design and make/roll the actual shafts. Like Honma and their 5 star shafts. They get the carbon from Quadra but charge 4 times Crazy.

Stew is right, the TJ-46 is a better choice for C. the TJ has a softer feel thus more feel and higher launch.

But it doesn't quite make sense.

C if you want to try the proto FE then that is a very stout and stiff shaft. WAY more stout feeling than the Longest Yard.

[Spoon]

Stew is right, the TJ-46 is a better choice for C. the TJ has a softer feel thus more feel and higher launch.

But it doesn't quite make sense.

C if you want to try the proto FE then that is a very stout and stiff shaft. WAY more stout feeling than the Longest Yard.

TJ46 sounds interesting but il think i will stick with the quads. i will give the proto a shot, who knows may feel different

for me. thank for all the inputs guys

[rjklein4470]

ok i would love to try a crazy shaft but how do i try it? do you have demos if i agree to pay for the shaft?

[Spoon]

ok i would love to try a crazy shaft but how do i try it? do you have demos if i agree to pay for the shaft?

best is to try it from someone to has it. thats the disadvantage of the shaft, its not readily available and they

are expensive so choose your shaft wisely and make sure to consult Gocchin before pulling the trigger.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I would say only shafts made of 80/90T should be sold anywhere near 1k. some brands are offering sub 50T shafts at 1k, Its more a marketing ploy to get u excited. I'm not gonna mention any names

[skippercarey]

Yes I've mentioned several times, Crazy does not make the carbon sheets. The do not have the capacity to do so. They only design and make/roll the actual shafts. Like Honma and their 5 star shafts. They get the carbon from Quadra but charge 4 times Crazy.

Stew is right, the TJ-46 is a better choice for C. the TJ has a softer feel thus more feel and higher launch.

But it doesn't quite make sense.

C if you want to try the proto FE then that is a very stout and stiff shaft. WAY more stout feeling than the Longest Yard.

Hey T how do the FE Proto and Crazy TJ 80 compare against each other? also in relation to the standard FE?

[gbs]

It is not the cost that dictates the merit or suitability of the shaft. I had the Crazy for a month and just could not make it work then switched to FE with almost the same spec and couldn't be happier. At the same time, Roddio does nothing for me while the Machline Proto is one of my favourites at half the cost of the Roddio. Unfortunately getting a premium shaft is always a small risk if you don't have a chance to test it before hand.

Could not have said it better duffer.

I have gone through like 4 Crazy shafts LY-01, LY-02, TJ-46 could not make it work. bought another LY-02 i thought it would work this time round still could not beat my Quadra FE oh well, some shafts are just not meant to be. I was lucky to be able to demo many Crazy shafts this time at the show. I also got the opportunity to try they new Crazy CRZ460 driver. I thought it was quite forgiving too.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

IMO When you find the right Crazy that fit's your swing properly nothing beats it. It's ranked #1 in Japan ratings and long drive competitions in Japan. Quadra FE is a close second. This year Muziik enters the mix with the new 787 Speeder!

[jamnguy1]

Could not have said it better duffer.

I have gone through like 4 Crazy shafts LY-01, LY-02, TJ-46 could not make it work. bought another LY-02 i thought it would work this time round still could not beat my Quadra FE oh well, some shafts are just not meant to be. I was lucky to be able to demo many Crazy shafts this time at the show. I also got the opportunity to try they new Crazy CRZ460 driver. I thought it was quite forgiving too.

You sound like me. Went through LY-01, LY-02, TJ-46, couple of flexes, Quadra FE. I wish I had the chance to attend the show to demo the new ones that they now have.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

You sound like me. Went through LY-01, LY-02, TJ-46, couple of flexes, Quadra FE. I wish I had the chance to attend the show to demo the new ones that they now have.

Interesting, I'm a fan of those exact same shafts my result was big increase in carry and much much straighter shots. it reduced fades and pulls. What was happening for you?

I'm aggressive with quick tempo and I come over the top with bad swings.

[jamnguy1]

Interesting, I'm a fan of those exact same shafts my result was big increase in carry and much much straighter shots. it reduced fades and pulls. What was happening for you?

I'm aggressive with quick tempo and I come over the top with bad swings.

TJ-46 worked out best for me, followed by LY-02. I got different models to try to find which worked best. Very consistent kickpoint in all of them.

I got the same distance and dispersion with Quadra FE, but I liked the feel on the Crazy better.

Feel on the Quadra is like a very high-end Matrix shaft.

Crazy has this very glassy feel that is unique to it.

[FrankThong]

I have been using a Crazy LY01 on a Kamui for a few months now and despite having used both less and more expensive shafts in the past, I couldn't be happier. It took me a couple of rounds to get used to its quirks and demands, but after that, I've been really cracking a few long ones. Does that mean the quality, ie using higher grade material like 80t carbon, equates, all by itself, to better shafts, thus making them better value for money?

I don't think so.

For one, we've now heard of golfers favoring one high grade shaft, ie 50t/80t such as Quadras and Crazys, over another. It would seem quality is not the only variable in the equation of how 'good' a golf shaft is. How much does shaft technology factor in the scheme of things? Shaft makers like Matrix, who makes the ultra-expensive TP7 shafts, banks heavily on their proprietary 16-sided HD and Interply Hybrid technologies. Typically, R&D costs a company more than merely investing in higher grade raw materials.

Finally, workmanship is yet another contributing factor. Production methods, QC standards, selection criteria and consistency all play critical roles. Depending on the 'who', 'where', 'what', labor and QC costs could add up significantly to the price of the shaft, though not as much as marketing and channel sales costs.

IMHO, I'd say raw materials, technology and workmanship all are equally important in making a good shaft, and finding the right balance of the three makes the whole more than the sum of its parts regardless of the price tag.

[gocchin]

I have been using a Crazy LY01 on a Kamui for a few months now and despite having used both less and more expensive shafts in the past, I couldn't be happier. It took me a couple of rounds to get used to its quirks and demands, but after that, I've been really cracking a few long ones. Does that mean the quality, ie using higher grade material like 80t carbon, equates, all by itself, to better shafts, thus making them better value for money?

I don't think so.

For one, we've now heard of golfers favoring one high grade shaft, ie 50t/80t such as Quadras and Crazys, over another. It would seem quality is not the only variable in the equation of how 'good' a golf shaft is. How much does shaft technology factor in the scheme of things? Shaft makers like Matrix, who makes the ultra-expensive TP7 shafts, banks heavily on their proprietary 16-sided HD and Interply Hybrid technologies. Typically, R&D costs a company more than merely investing in higher grade raw materials.

Finally, workmanship is yet another contributing factor. Production methods, QC standards, selection criteria and consistency all play critical roles. Depending on the 'who', 'where', 'what', labor and QC costs could add up significantly to the price of the shaft, though not as much as marketing and channel sales costs.

IMHO, I'd say raw materials, technology and workmanship all are equally important in making a good shaft, and finding the right balance of the three makes the whole more than the sum of its parts regardless of the price tag.

Very well said Frank.

It is very true that the material used is only one factor in the performance and quality of a shaft.

How a shaft performs is based partially on material but a very big part of it is definitely design and manufacturing.

A lot of people look at the surface of a shaft and things like flex, weight, torque but beyond that there are so many other aspects to a shaft such as rigidity distribution, bend profiles, actual flex at different sections of the shaft. Plus how the material is designed and put together in that shaft. All these aspects end up effecting flex, launch, and to be more precise the deformation of a shaft and its ability to return to form. And finally even when all these points are said and done... there is feel.

In the end materials can make a difference if the designs are all equal and good. Afterall great materials in a poorly designed shaft won't give any of us the performance we want. Neither will low quality materials in a well designed shaft. It's the balance of materials, design and quality production by shaft designers who understand what a shaft is meant to do which will result in a top quality shaft.

So put together a great design and great materials with top notch manufacturing and hopefully that is the 1000.00 shaft. (^_^)