+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 via GolfToImpress Odyssey had on display a very rare and limited putter made for the Japanese market named the Damascus Grand Limited Putter as Damascus has been a trend lately when it comes to high end putter materials that said not all Damacus is the same. Some brands offer full Damascus made putters at less than half the cost of the material alone. This is what I'm calling Faux Damascus or Damascus look. True Damascus has a very high carbon content of 1-2% while most modern damascus used in putters has only a fraction of 1% and this in my opinion tarnishes the name Damascus. Putter makers rushed to the Damascus trend with materials that have a undergone a layer forging or lamination process that provides the look of Damascus but doesn't feel or perform the same. So how do you know if your getting the real thing? The easiest way is price, True Damascus isn't cheap expect to pay at least a couple of thousand dollars for one. When you putt with real damascus the feel is sublime the extra added carbon creates almost a spongy impact. It will wear as it's forged Fe and not stainless and what's the point in putting a plating on something this special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Craig's latestSeven Putter has an insert made of Damascus on an SM490A head, it wasn't cheap but according to Tario it reminds him of the Epon 460ZR in a putter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicasio Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Wow...is this going to be in TSG store soon...or how to order if interested. Tq Edited February 15, 2014 by nicasio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Chris, dont get me wrong its nice looking putter and i'm sure it feels great off the face but this whole damascus story is just plain wrong i hate when manufacturers do that. damascus is long gone. there is no real production damascus today and hasnt been for ages. the art was lost long ago and while some claimed they have figured it out thru research and trial the only real damascus left are ancient blades in museums and private collections and what produced today is simply styled to look something like it because of pretty patterns. the real interesting thing about damascus was that it was hard and not brittle at the same time which is something very desirable for swords. japanese used special folding and quenching process to have a blade that can withstand bend stress, can be sharp and not too brittle at the edge. damascus had that plenty. one can make those patterns by cheap methods like etching or something after forge is done with it, similar to how knockoff japanese hamon is made or one can make it part of forging process which would be more expensive so thats what you are referring to i guess. the composition of steel however could be anything because there is no standard formula or recipe for real damascus. there is no real need for a putter to have the same qualities as sword either so composition can be anything best suitable for putters eg very soft carbon feel and then they have a styled pattern on it (cheap or expensive way) and call it damascus steel. its not like they took art collection pieces and made limited run putters out of them (thank god). just wanted to mention this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I don't really care about this putter nor can I confirm Odyssey is telling the truth but I know exactly what your saying. Your stance is the same as Sasayas. Which I agree with and don't at the same time. Original Damascus is long gone but looking at the mineral make up of original Damascus the method to create the same make up has been recreated. There are two sources to get 1-2% carbon and one of them is in Japan. Does that make it Damascus? Not really but it is the same. Same argument as champagne that's not from france. The bottom line is this recreated material is essentially the same as Damascus and they are using the name. Now 99% of brands are using layered or laminate Damascus and the name as essentially been torn down to a decoration or print. Laminate or layered Damascus look cost one price while recreated 1-2% carbon Fe is way more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 ahhh i was wondering about that, thank you for the clarification ant and Chris ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill3508 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 What are the specs, headweight and length available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalls Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) face Edited February 17, 2014 by robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 That's not the same putter. There are many Damascus grand putters by odyssey already available. The one we posted pics of was a lone putter protected case kinda a center piece no insert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokidoki1986 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Chris - now it's get a little more interesting when you said no insert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo2W Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) 8 out of 10...it is etching texture...still a nice looking stick tho... Edited February 17, 2014 by mojo2W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 man bad example, you know i live in France ;) Champagne can only be from France and from the same region, there is appellation contrôlée to guarantee that and in most civilized countries its illegal to to sell anything else under that name so its not an argument its a fact. even when you plant the same grapes elsewhere and follow the same process the soil is different, the climate and weather are different, the water is different, the end result is not the same. some Californian whites are good examples of that. sure there are other sparkling wines that are great eg from Italy but none of them are Champagne. Does that make it Damascus? Not really but it is the same. Same argument as champagne that's not from france. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) And if I may, Damascus steel has never been used in Japan to make swords (pattern welding method), but as its name says, it was made in india and used in middle east. Japanese steel for swords never went above 1% in term of carbon concentration while wootz (damascus steel) was way above :) Edited February 18, 2014 by tomcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 man bad example, you know i live in France ;) Champagne can only be from France and from the same region, there is appellation contrôlée to guarantee that and in most civilized countries its illegal to to sell anything else under that name so its not an argument its a fact. even when you plant the same grapes elsewhere and follow the same process the soil is different, the climate and weather are different, the water is different, the end result is not the same. some Californian whites are good examples of that. sure there are other sparkling wines that are great eg from Italy but none of them are Champagne. I think we are saying the same thing. It's not real Damascus just like anything not made in the Champagne region isn't Champagne. btw I absolutely love France! I'm jealous by all measures and so is my wife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 And if I may, Damascus steel has never been used in Japan to make swords (pattern welding method), but as its name says, it was made in india and used in middle east. Japanese steel for swords never went above 1% in term of carbon concentration while wootz (damascus steel) was way above :) Yes traditional wootz (original Damascus) supposedly made the best sword right? Tamahagane was superior in method but not mix I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) indeed chris ;) I guess Ant point was it could sound a bit awkward for purists to have brands using antic words just in a pure marketing way. Naming a Cayenne a Porsche doesn't make it being a real Porsche ^^ Edited February 18, 2014 by tomcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Anyway being this is now a topic on Damscus I'll post my beauty. Authentic Damscus blade with original Ivory handle from the Mughal Empire era 17th century. Purchased last year from an auction in Udaipur India. 8 years ago I also had a the 24th generation of the family Masamune, Tsunahiro Yamamura in Kamakura build me a Katana which I will pass to my child when I have one..lol took 16 months to make it's locked away in a safety depsoit box and I haven't seen it in at least 5 years. Will post pics it the next time it's pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 mate this is pure beauty ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 thats a beautiful looking blade man! kinda proves my point just by looking at it and then looking at that putter and i mean you dont have to be Damascus or Champagne expert to see that. nobodys trying to cut golf ball in half in one strike with their putter either tho sometimes it feels like something like that can give a proper satisfaction and if thats the goal they should stamp under the grip how many they cut with each doing cut tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokidoki1986 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 That's Damascus blade is beauty !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukok Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Chris, you can have the sword and I will have the gun, I think we know who will win in a fair fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 haha! not against Zombies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I had been told at some point that the ancient way Damascus was made using black volcanic steel mix that had been super heated hence its strength and colour. If this is true....Fire and brimstone...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) all you wanna know about wootz steel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz As you can see no linked at all between Japan and wootz ^^ What we see today are only attempts to replicate an old long time lost technic. Quoting wiki "Pattern welded steel blades have emerged,along with stag and bone handles. Some have patterns in hard steel, while others are in simple layers and too soft for practical use. As with the 19th century guns, the word "Damascus" is used for its romantic image, even though the processes are not related. Pattern welding of blades was practiced in medieval Europe and elsewhere and is similar to the Japanese methods. Since iron was never melted, in antiquity, some pattern of higher and lower carbon content was almost unavoidable." Edited April 8, 2014 by tomcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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