+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 A customer stumped me the other day asking what I would choose between a custom grind set of Miura Giken MB-5005's or a custom grind set of Mizuno Yoro Craft Blades of my choice. In this scenario it includes custom offset, custom grinds, custom finish and custom shaft/build specs. I found myself going back and fourth looking at the options from both brands and pictures at TSG. I pitty the man who must choose between these two amazing Irons. So I wanted to ask the members what would you choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Can we even order the 5005's in the custom shop? If so, that would be my choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Can we even order the 5005's in the custom shop? If so, that would be my choice... TSG can, they even offer Copper under layer which imo would make the MB-5005 almost the perfect blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Hmmm...and they can be ordered with zero offset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Hmmm...and they can be ordered with zero offset? Most models can but not the PP9003 or CB2007... While you can go zero I suggest keeping a little offset for the benefit of performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I hate to derail this thread, but what would be the performance benefits in your opinion? (I do concede that there probably are benefits for most people but for my swing I'm finding that the less offset the more accurate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I hate to derail this thread, but what would be the performance benefits in your opinion? (I do concede that there probably are benefits for most people but for my swing I'm finding that the less offset the more accurate) Here is a helpful read: Proper Iron Swing:An offset club naturally puts your hands in front of the club head. In the address position, your hands are on the shaft, while the club head is angled back a bit. This helps when swinging an iron because -- in a conventional iron swing -- you should be striking “down and through the ball,” with your hands leading the club head through the point of impact, according to swing coach Butch Harmon. PGA professional John Graham says an offset club offers “a better angle of attack” and “helps produce an impact with your hands in front of the club head.” Center of Gravity:The main purpose of an offset club head is to help players who tend to slice. One way in which the offset helps to limit or cure the slice is by moving the club head’s center of gravity farther from the shaft. Former “Golf Digest” equipment editor Peter Farricker explained that the farther the center of gravity is from the shaft, “the better chance you have of squaring the club face.” Squaring the Club Face:By pushing the club head a bit farther back from the shaft line, an offset club also helps to limit slices caused by open club faces because its structure “gives the head a little more time for the club face to square up at impact,” says PGA professional Don Trahan. By offsetting the club face, impact with the ball is delayed “a split-second longer,” according to Farricker. But that split second may be all that you need to square the club face and avoid a slice. Downside:Some golf professionals worry that by using an offset club as a crutch to cure a slice, a player either won’t improve his swing and learn how to square the club face on his own, or he will improve his mechanics, in which case the offset may turn the cured slice into a bad hook. Trahan says offset clubs “serve a good purpose for helping golfers who don’t have the skills or time to develop the skills to play better golf and shoot lower scores by hitting better and straighter golf shots.” He recommends that golfers learn proper mechanics, then play with non-offset clubs. I'm willing to bet that Trahan actually does have some amount of offset on his irons and just doesn't know it. Does anyone know of zero offset players MB's? Like really zero not minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 A while back chiro posted some pictures of his wedge and the wear associated with it Anyone who saw those pictures would understand why chiro needs zero offset. Maybe he might post them again Chiro, stop d**king around and get a set of SB01 or Pm me for another option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 SB01 has offset face progression (mm) 4.5 in the 3 iron 5.5 in the pw Miura Baby Blade: Offset (inches) 0.11 0.10 0.10 0.07 0.07 0.07 0.07 0.06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 What I'm saying is that zero offset is very rare and even for the PGA tour pro. Minimal is fine for Chiro, the SB-01, Baby Blade, Buchi, Yoro, Miura would suite him just fine with "minimal offset" These small amounts will not hurt his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 And there are a few wedges with ONSET, so that is another option for Chiro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Offset is so hard to really see from pictures but the only wedge I recall that really stood out with regards to onset was the George Spirits wedges. What are your recommendations for wedges with onset? The best wedge I've ever played was the old Titleist ELK and it did have onset. Btw, good read regarding offset, thanks. I agree with everything said...and would say the downside category probably fits me best. I draw everything with any noticable amount of offset. After a recent thread here, I built a set of PRGR ID-BLs and built them much flatter than standard and finally found out what it's like to hit a straight ball. Yes, I know there's offset, but it's minimal at best. I'm wondering if I tried zero offset if I wouldn't have to go extra flat to get that straight ball flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) id go the miuras. if u can get him to reduce the offest in the scoring irons. if you look at a miura mb5002 2 iron. there is nothing better ever made in golf i dont know how the hel he went frm that which is basically square to goose neck pw?????? why the hell does that happen. about the alst thing ud want to do is draw/hook a pw id think, right ? miura sb-01 with LIMTED offset. dont think u can get too much better, if that possible . Edited September 10, 2014 by supo67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaaayelll Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) How are you liking the ID-BL? Not to jack the thread... Edited September 10, 2014 by kaaayelll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Offset is so hard to really see from pictures but the only wedge I recall that really stood out with regards to onset was the George Spirits wedges. What are your recommendations for wedges with onset? The best wedge I've ever played was the old Titleist ELK and it did have onset. Btw, good read regarding offset, thanks. I agree with everything said...and would say the downside category probably fits me best. I draw everything with any noticable amount of offset. After a recent thread here, I built a set of PRGR ID-BLs and built them much flatter than standard and finally found out what it's like to hit a straight ball. Yes, I know there's offset, but it's minimal at best. I'm wondering if I tried zero offset if I wouldn't have to go extra flat to get that straight ball flight. I will take a look for you, I have the new GTD proto wedges in hand that have onset, will post soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 How are you liking the ID-BL? Not to jack the thread... Just posted in the IDBL thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Tan Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) This opinion come from Brad Hughes who teaches an old school swing and I believe my coach Martin Ayers also thinks in similar vein. By the way his wife is Japanese and he teaches in japan too. Modern etching totally sucks and I rediscovered my ball striking after decades of struggling with cockamamie positions you are meant to be in or look like. Go for blades and as little offset as you can possibly play. Simple tools!! That's what beautiful about Jdm blades..whether miura , mizuno, fourteen etc..This is a reply Brad had for the question of offset .... Bradley, Isnt offset supposed to be a forgiving feature? I think it adds confusion when lining up. Very surprised that most irons, even forged blades have offset. I used my bending bar to take out offset and used Dremel tool to correct bounce after bending to zero offset. Use lead tape to get weight right. Yeh look like hell but thats advantage of having 12 year old irons. Offset brings the shaft in ahead of the face (face will be open) and visually to me it feels like I have to flick my hands or roll them over to square the face up....or it feels like I have to come over the top to get the face on the ball......again...I think that is a designed feature by manufacturers (Karsten prob started this??)...to help fix a slice but again doing this deteriorates the action long term...... if people would get their clubs set up properly and avoid the use of band aids and crutches to try help them through they will be all the better in the long haul....and not be making these compensations that end up hurting them even more as time goes by. Upright clubs and offset.- two wrongs that don't make a right Upright clubs by their very disposition discourage the pivot from getting fully engaged. By using upright clubs the shaft will no longer be at right angles to the torso on the downswing, and any OTT move starts the ball much more left, quicker... than from a flatter lie angle. The arms then don't have room to work correctly on the downswing, and we keep hearing the "stuck" term which is exactly what happens. The offset is just that... an attempt to delay the shutting of the clubface so that OTT has a better chance of starting the ball online.. with more of a glancing blow. Two negatives rarely make things right. A correct golf swing is going to be based upon forearm rotation in sync with a proper pivot rotation. This upright/offset kind of equipment set up will inhibit that, and leave golfers scratching their heads wondering why they don't get better. The companies sure do sell us though on these concepts of their clubmaking....but when you are armed with true knowledge and aren't just patching your swing up with ill designed tools the yellow brick road becomes a heck of a lot clearer through the maze. I have seen plenty of the latest and greatest stuff head straight to e-bay after a few rounds when improvement wasn't imminent. It's not the club that will save you ...it's the correct setup of a club that can and will enhance our games over time....if you give yourself a chance and start thinking outside the box of what we have been told and follow and watch what the great players actually did with the club in their hands when they swung it efficiently you can then start to reap some rewards. Edited September 10, 2014 by Jeffrey Tan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 The jacking goes deep in this thread... Jeffrey no clue who this guy is and never heard of him but to say go for blades with as little offset as possible is bad advice for the vast majority of players, it's not a band aid as he says, far from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Tan Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Sorry didn't want it to seem like a jacking . I was trying to give the discussion why I thought too much offset was into opinion not good since we were discussing it already. But I'll leave it alone, no problems. Please accept apologises. The point was that there is beauty in those heads we are talking about. Their simplicity and minimal offset. Simply beautiful tools to hit the golf ball with. I now play with not zero offset but minimal offset. That's what attracted me back to these jdm player heads ie precise instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Sorry didn't want it to seem like a jacking . I was trying to give the discussion why I thought too much offset was into opinion not good since we were discussing it already. But I'll leave it alone, no problems. Please accept apologises. The point was that there is beauty in those heads we are talking about. Their simplicity and minimal offset. Simply beautiful tools to hit the golf ball with. I now play with not zero offset but minimal offset. That's what attracted me back to these jdm player heads ie precise instruments. It's not you man, we all jack threads and sometimes it goes fun and deep. I agree totally less offset looks fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Very sorry for the jacking! Any chance we could move the offset posts to their own thread and continue this discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoutout33 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 This is easy...Miura. Simply because I can get Miura Giken heads only...period. Chris, if I'm wrong, let me know. Getting some custom MB 5005's then have them custom built for me by my local club builder?!?!?! Really?!?!?! Gimme a challenge or something Chris! LOL!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Very sorry for the jacking! Any chance we could move the offset posts to their own thread and continue this discussion? No worries man, we all do it and I'm probably the biggest culprit. Let's just keep this here, without it this thread has no meat on the bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-500 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Miura Giken all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miuramaniac Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Yoro's aren't in the same class as Miura custom grinds. Not even close. And Bradley Hughes knows more about the golf swing than all of us combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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