jeffy Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 I was lucky enough to spend two and a half days in Scottsdale last week. On Thursday I spent the morning with Stan Utley getting a total short game makeover, then played the Raptor course at Grayhawk (where Stan teaches) in the afternoon. On Friday, I had a two hour refresher with Stan in the morning and golf at Talking Stick in the afternoon. Saturday morning, nine holes again at the Raptor course at Grayhawk, then a 12:30pm flight back to NYC. This trip was my first opportunity to play and practice extensively with my Scratch Proto CB irons and wedges as well as my Gauge Design GA03 Tour putter. Doing so while working with Stan at such as nice facility at Grayhawk was an awesome bonus. The one line version is that I couldn't have been happier with the clubs and Stan's teaching. Brief reviews of each follow: Scratch Proto CBs and wedges: The first thing Stan Utley did, after he introduced himself and glanced at my bag, was to say "gee, that it is slick looking set of irons; you're going to have to tell me about those". That was easy, as Ari and I had designed an unusual set that covered the distance spectrum from a strong 20* 3 iron to a 64* x-lob wedge with only ten clubs: six irons and four wedges. The irons started at a 45* 9 iron (3 degrees weaker than the current standard) and decreased by 5* in loft per club (instead of the usual 4* then 3*) and increased in shaft length by 0.625" per club (instead of the standard 0.5"). There is no 5 iron because the 6 iron is midway in loft (30*) and length betwen my 25* 4 iron and 35* 7 iron. The shafts are Project X 5.0. Finish is brushed nickel, no paintfill. Swingweight is D-3. The sole grind is from the Titleist 962 and the toe grind from the Toursatge Z101. At set up, the clubs look perfect. The irons also play beautifully. I originally thought I'd probably substitute my 7 wood for the 3 iron, but the 3 iron was so easy to hit (got up quickly and went straight on a nice flat trajectory), that I kept the 3 in the bag. The irons are at least as forgiving as my old 962s and, as you would expect, much softer. I liked the feel of the Z101s when I demo'd them and I think the Scratch compare very favorably. Although it is a little difficult to compare distance against my 962s because the sets are not identical in terms of loft and length, I feel that the Scratch are maybe a little longer than the 962s, which may be because of the Project X shafts (I have TFR 5.0 in my 962s). Interestingly, Royal Precision did not recommend the Project X to me because of my modest swingspeed (90 mph with the driver), but I love them. I think they may spin the ball a little less than the TFR which may account for how straight they hit the ball as well as the additional carry. The one thing about the irons that was intially a worry was how would the slightly longer distance gaps between clubs affect playability. This turned out to be a non-issue. Relatively quickly I became comfortable with the distances of each club and was able to club myself without much stress. In fact, I think the slightly bigger distance gaps (about 3 yards wider) actually makes it easier to settle on a club, particularly if you subscribe to the "when in doubt, take the lower lofted club, grip down and swing aggresssively" approach advocated by Nicklaus, Hogan and others. Despite the concerns of another TSG member, the distance gaps are reasonably consistent throughout the set and do not balloon between the 3 and 4 iron. The four wedges are 50*, 55*, 60* and 64*; no need for a dopey gap wedge here! Project X 5.0 in the 50*, TFR 5.0 in the 55*, TFR 4.5 in the 60* and 64*. Round head shape like the Mizuno MP and Callaway wedges. Also brushed nickel finish. Stan Utley admired the weges a lot. He favors a lot of bounce and particularly liked the sole grinds on the 60* and the 64* (he'd never seen a 64* before). He also liked the swing weight on the wedges: D-5 on the 55*, D-6 on the 60* and 64*. After working with Stan, I think the 60* will be the club I use 90% of the time around the green, reserving the 55* for longer pitches and long bunker shots (I hit several beauties with the 55* in those circumstances). The 64* will be used whenever pitching/lobbing to an ultra tight location or onto a down slope (only used the 64* twice in 45 holes, but got up-and-down both times). Feel is of course very soft. Gauge Design putter: My new black Gauge Design GA03 Tour putter also worked very well. It is 36" long (same as Utley uses) and has a Newport style head with a yellow sight dot. About 340 grams head weight. Once Stan adjusted the loft (he likes at least 6 degrees of loft so you can forward press and lead the stroke with the hands and still have ~3* loft at impact) and reworked my stroke, I putted like a genius the first afternoon: my playing partners kept remarking about how well I was putting and how much I must love my new putter. Lost some of the feel the second day but got it back on the morning of the third day. I feel like I'm going to putt very well from now on. Stan Utley: As far as working with Stan goes, I loved it. From now on, I don't plan to spend money on lessons with anyone else. He is expensive (and in high demand) but his approach has many very good things going for it. First, although he does very much teach a specific technique for each type of shot, his techniques (other than for bunker shots) are based on the fundamentals of the full golf swing (this includes his technique for putting). For me, that made his putting stroke and chipping and pitching swings relatively easy to learn. Second, the methods work right away and became easier to execute relatively quickly. No need to make 10,000 "perfect strokes" on a putting track to learn Stan's technique! Third, since his techniques are based very much on full swing fundamentals, working to learn them improved my long game as least as much as the short shots: the second afternoon I striped it down the middle of 12 of 14 fairways using a swing thought from my pitching session with Stan from that morning. If I continue to see Stan regularly, I don't think I'll need to see a "long game" teacher again (sorry David Glenz!). This was indeed an unexpected bonus but one Stan says happens with many of his students. Finally, Stan is one of the nicest people you will meet, a good friend and a very positive coach. A great combination. If you do decide to see Stan, I strongly recommend that you book him on consecutive days and take notes. He imparts a lot of information and seeing him a second time will help you recall what you'll inevitably forget from the first session. In terms of how much time, I saw him for six hours total over two days, which was enough but by no means too much. Next spring, though, I plan to do two hours a day for three days. I think it would be hard to book too much time with him (other than the cost!) as he can teach you so many different shots that are a blast to hit. For those of you who are interested, Stan's lob wedge is a 58* raw Vokey that has 15* of bounce and a Ping Eye 2 sole grind. Stan used a Ping Eye 2 lob wedge his whole career before signing with Titleist and, although his contract with Titleist does not require him to play a Titleist wedge, Stan feels obligated to use one of their wedges, although it is really a Ping in disguise. The shaft is either a S200 or S300 (Stan wasn't sure). He favors a shallow angle of attack with the wedge, so the lie is (he thinks) about 3* flat from standard. I'll be flattening my lob wedges by a degree or so (all of Stan's clubs are flat, but the lob wedge is more so). Interestingly, Stan prefers a lighter putter and has some extra weight ground out of the cavity on his hand-stamped Cameron Newport Beach prototype. I hope this information is interesting and useful to those thinking about new clubs and/or seeing Stan. I'm sorry this is so long, but several TSG members expressed an interest in hearing about my experiences so here it is. Anyone can feel free to PM me with any questions they may have. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 what did Stan say about the Scratch clubs? did he hit them? what did he say about your Gauge putter? i bet he didn't care for it since he is in Cameron's back pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffy Posted March 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 nino wrote: what did Stan say about the Scratch clubs? did he hit them? what did he say about your Gauge putter? i bet he didn't care for it since he is in Cameron's back pocket. Stan said they all looked great but did not hit the CBs. He was intrigued by my set makeup because he does not carry a 4 iron in order to accomodate an extra fairway; has a weak 3 iron and a strong 5. Stan hit the wedges and liked them very much. Way softer feel than his cast Vokey. As I mentioned above, he liked the sole grind, especially the ample bounce, and the weight of the wedges. He liked the look of the Gauge because, like the Cameron he currently uses, it is esentially a copy of the Ping Anser, which he used until signing with Titleist. The Gauge is a little heavier than what he prefers. By the way, I don't think Stan is in anyone's back pocket; however, he appreciates his endorsement deal with Titleist and, as I mentioned above, goes beyond his contract's requirements by playing a Vokey when he is not obliged to. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 i won't get into what i really think about the putter deal. these boards are not the place for it. in someone's face is a different story. on the wedges, did you tell him how to get ahold of Ari to get some wedges made? that is what Ari needs to happen for Scratch. Imagine Stan getting them and having them on some range and other guys pick them up and wonder about them. Then Ari starts to get calls from others Stan knows and works with. tell me what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primo Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Sounds like an awesome experience Jeffy, I've been following some of the stuff in GD from Utely with my chipping and it's absolutely improved my chipping around the greens. I'm curiious does he recomend that same inside move for pitching as well? You also mentioned that the bunker shots veered from the normal swing theories. If you don't mind I'd love to hear what some of his swing theories are behind these shots. Congratulations on your new Scratch equipment and GD putter, you bag is looking an awful like my bag! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffy Posted March 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 primo wrote: I'm curiious does he recomend that same inside move for pitching as well? You also mentioned that the bunker shots veered from the normal swing theories. If you don't mind I'd love to hear what some of his swing theories are behind these shots. He recommends the same move for pitching as chipping, there is just more body pivot, right elbow fold, wrist cock and forearm rotation (as in a full swing, just less for a partial shot). The sand technique is different and he'll describe it in his next Golf Digest article (June probably). Pictures have already been shot at Grayhawk. The basics: stance is extra wide, knees deeply flexed, weight left, right shoulder high. Hands low at address, slightly behind ball, clubface open a bit to add some bounce. The arms stay in front of the body, the club cocks straight up, arms and hands stay in close to the body with both elbows bent, left wrist cups, all as the body rotates away from the ball. Hands stop at the right hip on backswing. The pivot, not the arms, provide all the turn away from the ball. On the downswing, the club is dropped straight down into the sand (it feels like it is dropping behind you, well in back of the ball) as the body rotates through. The hrough rotation and straightening of the right arm delivers the clubhead into the sand behind the ball. The right palm releases straight up and faces the sky at the finish. Hands stop thigh high. Gotta run to the airport! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 did you tell him how to get in touch with Scratch Golf? did he say he wanted some wedges made by them? think of how beneficial that would be to Scratch. Stan has those wedges with him (even when he is home at his teaching facility this would happen) and other tour guys that play with/and are taught by him see these and become interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillypete Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 didn't I already read scratch got some play in a PGA Tour event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthelinks Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 Thanks for the report Jeffy. Sounds like you had a great time and came away with a lot of good info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffy Posted March 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 onthelinks wrote: Sounds like you had a great time and came away with a lot of good info. Thanks. BTW, I've added some more to the description of Stan's sand technique in my reply to primo above. It may be tough to get it without some in-person guidance, though. I'll be interested to see the reaction to his article on sand play. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntdog99 Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 How much was it to see him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffy Posted March 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 huntdog99 wrote: How much was it to see him? What a rude question! But since you asked, half-day is $1K, hourly rate is $300. Expensive, but cheaper than a Pelz school, and, for my money, an awful lot better. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primo Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 thanks for the description of the sand play. really interesting. I don't think I get it. I thought I might have, but tried a few bunker shots in my round yesterday and well i don't get it. I do have to agree with you, the Pelz school is kind of a ripoff. I went last year and although I did learn some things, I didn't think it was worth it. It wasn't anything that isn't in the books or on the golf channel. I'd much rather spend a dime and learn one on one with the best short game specialist on tour. His chipping and pitching techniqe is way better than the Pelz in my opinion. It gives you a lot more feel where Pelz is a lot more technical, which just doesn't really suite my style of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffy Posted March 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 I spent some time in the practice bunker today, my first opportunity since seeing Stan last week. I think the key to his technique is the bending of both elbows, keeping the hands low and the arms close to the body. The club is cocked straight up in front of the body, then released it straight down. Body rotation alone creates the turn back and through. I found that I tended to want to keep the left arm extended in the backswing which doesn't work at all. Pull both arms in towards your body as you cock straight up and turn away, then drop the flange of the club straight down behind the ball. It is also important to have an extra wide stance (wider than with a driver), keep your weight left (otherwise you'll hit too far behind the ball) and a deep knee flex. Hope this helps. It produces a nice high feathery shot when done right. Pretty nifty with the 64*, BTW. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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