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Mjr. D

Wooden Dowels - Improve feel, yes or no?

12 posts in this topic

Been reading a lot about inserting wooden dowels into the shafts of your clubs to dampen vibrations. It's supposed to soften the feel of the clubs and make contact more solid. Does anything have experience with this? Is it worth it?

 

Thanks!

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Sounds like humbug to me  : /

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Ya, who knows. That club builder on GolfWRX, Kwok, uses them with all his builds and people swear by it.

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I had a .5" wooden dowel built into a 3w I used to have by my club builder, but it was just to increase the SW because the shaft was a little short, not to dampen vibration or increase feel or anything like that. I also think it just sounds like a myth. and not to disparage the guy from GolfWRX, Kwok, but I just happen to live around the corner from one of the most well respected and renowned club builders in the world http://izettgolf.com/. other pro builders worldwide send them equipment to fix or make if it's something too difficult, and they're one of only three places in the world to own a machine built jointly by TrueTemper and Kim Braly (KBS shafts) to measure each individual's unique shaft deformation that's created during their swing in order to precisely and objectively determine their ideal shaft frequency and bend profile. These guys that work at Izett know more than anyone about golf clubs, the golf swing, and true custom fitting. I HIGHLY doubt there's anything this guy Kwok knows that they don't. They used to have one of those SST Pure machines for shafts and got rid of it because they figured out how to do the same shaft balancing trick themselves without having to rent their technology, and thus don't have to charge their customers extra in order to cover their own fees for using the equipment. Unless you've had the pleasure of visiting and speaking with these guys yourself then there's no way for me to explain well enough how much real, practical knowledge these guys have. just by building my irons after doing a proper fitting they were single-handedly responsible for decreasing my handicap by at very least 5 strokes instantly. the main points they focus on during a proper fitting are grip size based on hand measurements, club length based on your height and arm length and posture (measured with very precise angles and lengths like an expert tailor), shaft frequency and bend based on a detailed analysis of exactly what happens to the shaft during your swing, and swing weight to create proper balance when combined with your ideal shaft and a head that suits your preferences and swing style: all very practical and objective methods that are proven to work. it's the most detailed and effective fitting I've ever even heard of; they don't isolate and use irrelevant stats like swing speed to make recommendations because two people can have the exact same club speed but load the shaft completely differently. they've firmly debunked so many of these club myths I've heard over the years it's amazing people still believe any of the stuff.

so to bring it back to the original question, no I never felt any increase in feel or decrease in vibration due to the wooden dowel, it was used purely to create proper SW

Edited by gregoire56
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Wow, this is the best post on here in months! Please elaborate further if you have the time. Specifically how they were able to spine/FLO the shafts as effectively without an SST machine. Great, great post man. Very interesting stuff. Love it.

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ha brother I wish I could but anything I say wouldn't do justice to what you'd hear from the Izett guys. check out the website link I posted on there, I think there might be some info on there

I can't remember exactly how he told me they figured out how to do the SST balancing, but he said they measured their new way against the machine before they got rid of it and the results were exactly the same, so however they figured it out they nailed it. 

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Wooden dowels are nothing new.

I have used percussion instrument transport material in its place.   It's similar to tourstage turbo rubber.  It weighs less,  it dampens vibrations better, and its a soft rubber.

A grip can soften feel as well,  a shaft,  finish,  etc.. etc..

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Sst .. what. A fkkn wate of huge  bucks

my set of ns 1050s were so perfectly close to sst  pure it was a total waste of cash.

maybe those garbage other steel crap need it but ns don't.

thats 

why

i

play

ns

and forged steel heads

 

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On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 9:32 AM, supo said:

Sst .. what. A fkkn wate of huge  bucks

my set of ns 1050s were so perfectly close to sst  pure it was a total waste of cash.

maybe those garbage other steel crap need it but ns don't.

that's why I play ns and forged steel heads

that's pretty much what my builder said, in a few more and less colorful words. they still offer to do it as an optional service when building a club(s) for a customer, but I think they only charge like $15-20 per shaft/club and less per club I'm sure if you get it done to a whole set of irons/woods. they don't use the SST brand or equipment but the result is the same. If I understand correctly it's just a device that automates a process that they know how to do manually instead, but don't quote me on that. I've personally never gotten it done, never felt the need to, and based on what I was told if one buys a set PROPERLY, meaning a set that accentuates or compliments one's natural unique swing characteristics, then there's little to no need for it. I personally settled nicely into x100's in an old set of GI's, then when I switched to the blades I have now I changed to KBS Tour 130x's for more of a mid launch with the less forgiving irons, and a smidge lighter because I'm -.5" off standard and it felt better. I'm not that good on paper but I'll hit a few impressive shots per round, and that number and impressiveness increased significantly as soon as I got a real custom fitting by them and had them build my irons. 

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 0:46 PM, TourSpecGolfer said:

Wooden dowels are nothing new.

I have used percussion instrument transport material in its place.   It's similar to tourstage turbo rubber.  It weighs less,  it dampens vibrations better, and its a soft rubber.

A grip can soften feel as well,  a shaft,  finish,  etc.. etc..

do the dowels really affect vibration enough to be noticeable? I didn't notice it but if so I'll obviously take your word for it. I'm certainly no expert by any definition of the word

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I tried the Sensicore inserts once and had a similar reaction -- that it added nothing I could feel. Also agree on NS shafts. The Modus3's I'm playing with currently are the smoothest feel I've ever encountered. Better than composites even.

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On 11/25/2017 at 9:32 AM, supo said:

Sst .. what. A fkkn wate of huge  bucks

my set of ns 1050s were so perfectly close to sst  pure it was a total waste of cash.

maybe those garbage other steel crap need it but ns don't.

thats why i play ns and forged steel heads

 

I just found this quote from Chris in a post from 2012:

Here's another controversial topic for some but basic knowledge to those with their boots on the ground. SST Pure, none of the Japanese shaft makers or material suppliers believe in it. It's kinda a Gimmick or Joke over there as the largest imperfection on a shaft is the seam or spine and lining that seam up with the target makes no sense and simply deforms kick reducing distance and accuracy. Thats the exact opposite of what it's advertised to do. Crazy, Quadra, Mitsubishi, Techno, Graphite Design and all of their designers believe in spine up. Not down or front and back.. UP as its the place where the spine will get in the way the least not hindering the kick forward or kick downward. Ever wonder why the spine on really good shafts is aligned with the logo up side?

About 6 years ago I was all about SST this and that. Boy was I wrong when they showed us how the spine get's in the way of a consistent kick. We argued and asked every source we could. This is not opinion and they are not wrong. It's fact and think about it, what is the spine? it's the seam and it's the most flawed and inconsistent area on a shaft. It's more ridged which prevents the shaft's natural kick hindering distance and of the 4 basic directions a shaft can kick the least important is UP. front and back kick is very important for distance and downward bend is natural on a descending blow.

SST pure will work on really cheap and poorly made shafts that have inconsistencies as it stabilizes forward kick meaning straighter shots yet at the cost of distance. On anything decent it reduces performance and this comes from the chief designers of every brand that produces all the worlds best shafts.

Very pleased that I happened to stumble across this old post; conversation over with regard to SST. hah

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Interesting. I've studied this topic a lot in the last six months. As with most things, there are varying opinions. Most "experts" think there is something to FLO'ing but not much to finding the spine with a spine finder. They say they lie to you. If you do believe in all of this, most "experts" agree that S1 (Spine 1 - stiffest part of the shaft) should face straight up and N1 (neutral 1 - most stable part of the shaft) should face down the target line. N1 and N2 form a 180* line and S1 and S2 form a 180* line through the shaft. It's impossible to have a shaft with an S point and an N point 180* from each other. 

For me personally, I don't have a frequency machine so I have to rely on FLO'ing by pulling the shaft back and releasing it by hand and I find it very inaccurate. Depending on my pull and release, the shaft can oscillate clockwise or counterclockwise. I do however use a spine finder and to me, I can absolutely feel what part of the shaft has the most resistance and I install the shaft with the stiffest direction facing straight up, to prevent shaft droop coming into impact. Most "experts" say shaft droop will cause more mis**ts that anything else, so it makes sense to have the stiffest part of the shaft pointing up, to counter this.

With all this being said, it might be complete nonsense. I just figure if I can do it, and I enjoy it, why not? But with most things in life, to each their own.

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