born4golf77

i too think over the years all players, including tour pros, have their hands much higher at impact than they did years ago. not sure which came first though, higher hands or more upright lie angles. either way they are here to stay until some company decides they should promote flatter is the way to more yardage. high hands usually comes from an effort to hit the ball harder and hence coming back on a higher plane. with the driver it is easier to get by with b/c the ball is teed up off the ground.

chris, thanks for the update and the actual reports. i just want the truth and i think we ( the members of both forums) should do our own independent tests like you said to get to the bottom of this. i personally dont care how it turns out i have heard good things about both you and him. however it looks like as far as the wedges are concerned we have two tests with two different results (obviously the irons he did not test). ari says he is marketing the wedges as being made out of the equivalent of american standard 1018. i honestly have no idea what the spec requirements are for any of these metals but i would like to know what they are. (edit- just looked up the spec req for 1018 and ari's test does show that the manganese content is not high enough to be labeled 1018- it does fit specs for 1015). also between your test and his it looks like some big variances . i am sure both you and he know the real truth and obviously this is a touchy situation with a lot of members here and on golfwrx. i do appreciate your transparency with posting both your tests and his for the sake of comparison and full disclosure. thanks again and like you said i dont think scratch is a bad product at all either, i think the open mold he uses is probably one of the most used and successful models that has come out in a while and the grinds on the wedges are useful for many people. i just want to know if the metal is truly 1018 or not. i dont like arguing and i too think nothing will be settled until independent tests are performed on multiple wedges and iron heads. if someone wants to raise money for the tests i would be glad to chip in. thanks

sounds good chris but there is a thread w/ ari's tests on golfwrx that says they are 1018 along w/ actual images of the test results w/ testing agencies numbers. in my opinion neither you nor him can end this debate with tests because you both "have a dog in the fight" to borrow an over used cliche. the only way this debate will end is thru a test of clubs submitted thru someone other than the two of you. there has been an offering of an unbiased source to submit heads to a university for testing to validate either your tests or his tests. i honestly hope someone other than you or ari will do another test of clubs bought off the rack (not given to them by you or him) to another independent testing company so that this debate can end. i dont care who "wins". as a consumer i just want the truth.