yeah very true, that too, creates another gap where it matters most. nothing proper wedge set wont fix but its just wrong. maybe they should start stamping names on them instead like pitching niblick or something to break existing associations :) saw a beautiful one off dw ground then engraved raw set by scratch golf made for show where they did just that.

thingi do like tho is the ability to put another wedge proper in the bag.. that i like!

its kinda funny and sad at the same time because the industry really screwed the irons up in its quest to sell more distance by jacking up lofts and lengths. in 60s/70s 'standard' 2iron loft was about what 20 degrees and its 'standard' length was about no more than 39". wasnt the easiest club to hit but now we have 3iron at 20 degrees loft and 39" length which is basically your 2iron of old. that started in the 80s i think. no wonder nobody makes 1irons anymore and 2irons are on request only and as they continue to jack up lofts and length 5-PW only sets would be more and more common with hybrids to fill the gap but not the function of long irons as it meant to be. further down the line expect 'i think GOD can definatly hit ............... this 3 iron!' topic i guess.

is that just me or they look like miuras (giken) shape wise but different finish and stamping? anyways, very good looking blades, glws!

supo, i just always wanted a set of those. guess i'm justa sucker for Hogan gear similar way many here are for Epon. from your old post it sounds i might actually like them because they are firm and heavy. i have MG5003 in my bag and absolutely love them and i know from your posts you kinda hate them. mine are plastered with lead tape so much you probably would call it blasphemy. i think 5003 should be way more forgiving than Hogan Personals tho as Personals are modeled after old Precision model from the 50s. they pop up on ebay every now and then but rarely used sets. usually brand new in a special box and people ask unreasonable money for them because brand new they are collectors item or such. anyway, sorry for getting offtopic here people.

no the perosnals were lent to me by a friend for a try out.

the asking price on these was HUGE.

theyd been reshafted with DG tour issue nad they were unplayable IMO.

i took the yamaha tour as a control , the differnce was . well ....................grand canyon esque.

i promise you ud be spewing if u hit these. i was flabbergasted..

look up my old post o nthem see what i said, i cant rem , but it was horrrid AND ithink it was in mid summer(?)

if you still have that set of Hogan Personals and wanna unload it please PM me. if they are in good nick and the price is reasonable i can take them off you. re 99 Apex i see you found Jeff Sheets article, great article for any blade and club design junkie to read! i never had a set of those so cant comment on them. Wood Bros persimmon drivers were hand made and very good but you can get one these days for less than mass manufactured copy of a copy frying pan. modern golf equipment has the shelf life ofa banana it seems. i guess people want new things, people want more distance and people want to buy golf swings by buying new technology.

i did get a set of hogan personals (yes) and they were the worst clubs id ever hit . absolutley horrendous..... i did a piece o nthem about a year ago. loved the design , but the feel was oh gaaaaaaawd awful.

if you solve ballooning problem you should gain distance coz once it starts to balloon you lose both carry and roll. accuracy too as those ballooning balls are harder to predict or control.

Just would lime to see if I can gain a few more yard with a different shaft.

funny thing supo is that those HOGAN blades were in fact manufactured by EPON.

imagine ................................................., IF the HOGAN apex irons from 1999 ( that every WRX er swears is the greatest iron ever made................) were re-released , epon style, by say..... EPON... how do u think they would go? PERSONALLY................................ id think they go absolutely fricken awsomely...!

i think you are missing the point on high launch head and how much it matters. like idrive said it wont make dramatic change with that shaft. if you really ballooning it and wanna counter act the head you need more dramatic change in your shaft so X might work better for you than you think, maybe not fubuki ax 85x tho because it really is a stiff shaft. i'd rather pick the shaft you like and find a lower launching head for it. either that or change your swing because how you come into the ball and release has the most effect on all that, much more than any shaft or head tweaks can ever do for you. i guarantee you that your local pro can hit your club just fine without ballooning it because they can find the way to come into the ball slightly delofted even with lady flex shaft and higher club head speed than yours at the same time. on matrix and noodle flex you should check if its oem version and if it is its anybodys guess what flex it really is as major manufacturers generally tolerate +/-one flex easily plus it would obviously be lower quality shaft not matching real thing specs. matrix usually makes very tight shafts so that sounds like a sign of oem version to me tho i havent hit the one you mention so could be totally off on that one.

i havent hit the spoon but from what Tario written about it on the blog here its high launching head by design so you have to realize that its always gonna be part of your equation even if you put a rebar in it. i have here fubuki ax 85x (tipped 1/2" per MRC instructions) that i replaced with bb 103x in my 3w. i dont think you would be able to balloon it even with your spoon. its very stable and precise shaft (dispersion with it is amazing) but if you like alot of feel/play in your shafts you aint gonna like it. it doesnt launch low but it doesnt climb high either just stays there, i think its designed like that to get more distance. i was contemplating on putting it on BST for a very reasonable price since its collecting dust and someone else can put it to good use but shipping from Europe to anywhere across the pond is too expensive these days so kinda doesnt worth a stretch. [EDIT: just realized you are in Germany which is just across the border so PM me if you are interested, its one time professional pull in good nick, bought new from TSG here]

Guys,

I need your help. I have the original egg spoon 15° currently shafted with a Ilima 70s. I'm actually quite happy with it. The "problem" is that my shots are really really high. I would say they are birderline to balooning. I would lime to try out a new shaft that is slightly lower. Supo67 alredy raved about the Kai'li in a FW. So, this would be one candidate. Another one is the Fubuki Alpha. But actually I don't really know anything about it. Can anyone compare those shafts? Btw, my driver ss is about 100 mph with a smooth transition.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

never heard they made wb 100+g, bb yes and i have one in my 3w. or is it only by custom one off kinda orders for tour players ? seen 100+g gd ad-di popup on ebay once but was too late to snatch it.

Serg has a whiteboard 83x labeled but it was really a 105x.

man, its all about the feel with those. i know alot of people believe otherwise but reality is there is very little difference between wedge shafts in terms of launch, spin, trajectory etc. your swing has the most impact on that. say if i'm hitting it super high due to swing flaw you can give me the stiffest wedge shaft you can get and i'm still gonna hit it just as high. pick whatever is good tradeoff for your swing so you can have the feel you like on both full pitch and small chip shots and you gonna be happy with it.

shaft pullers just dont have much to hold on to on them. plastic ferrule part of the adapter tend to melt real quick and gets soft before epoxy softens up if its a strong epoxy plus its a small piece that doesnt dissipate heat as much so it would tend to give more heat to the shaft tip inside it. some people who work with them often are more skilled at removing them quickly in one piece but generally they are not designed for removal. if shaft is untipped and i wanna tip it i'd rather have that adapter cut off than pulled but thats just me.

you'd still have to glue them adapters on each shaft and then presumably pull them and pulling them can get kinda sketchy and you can have more chance of doing heat damage to the tip than without them. not to mention original adapters usually cost pretty penny. i think its cool if you have somebody like a fitter with whole bunch of different shafts with adapters on them at the ready but otherwise i dont see the point really other than adjustability. its real nice to see another 380cc head come out tho, hope this trend will continue.

For me, it is a 40 minute drive(one-way) and ~$40 to get a driver shafted by a skilled builder. Say I wanted to try 3 shafts, that gets time consuming and expensive. Not to mention risk to head and shaft with pulling them. With an adjustable driver, I could bring the 3 shafts in once and then try all of them, even comparing as close to side by side as possible. For me it is less about the actual adjustability and more trying different shafts in a good head I could actually get comfortable with…

-RIDuffer

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mint-Yonex-Tournament-SP-Iron-Set-3-SW-Steel-Stiff-Right-/280911190778

check out the grind, looks like no bounce, thin and sharp, you can shave with those. shame no at address pictures but seems like compact no offset heads. looks like a great set blades to me if you dont mind those gold ornaments on them.

sounds like a good combo for RocketBallz :) graphics are pretty good me thinks.

yeah reshafting persimmons can be quite a bit more involved but some folks still do it. nobody makes smaller driver heads because 1) they dont sell; 2) its more difficult and expensive to make a max cor head under 380cc. there is nothing crazy about you asking all this, in fact personally i think persimmon is actually more forgiving as far as finding fairways goes. modern metal heads do everything design wise to kill spin or at least to kill it to be within certain range for their target customer all to gain the maximum distance. they are also very flat faced compared to persimmon. if you combine these two things what happens is you cant take advantage of gear effect with modern metal heads as you can do with old wood heads. so modern metal heads try to fight that with high moi designs. in reality however your wood toe and heel misses would curve and come back if there is nothing in their way and your metal misses would go off the planet and gonna keep going. anyways, i'm gonna shut up now because this is becoming offtopic here me thinks but good luck with what you are doing and dont ever let any of them conformists out there get to you :)

Thanks for the responses. Just found out about Ping not doing any work on these wonderful clubs, thankfully they are in great shape but thought of reshafting which no one will touch. Looking on The Bay I found a listing for Hiro Honma Big LB Persimmon Driver, 3 and 4 woods for what I believe is a reasonable price. Have done a search yet but what is the difference between 2 and 4 Stars with regards to the shaft?

What manufacturers create a smaller driver / fairway wood heads that resemble the old ones? I doubt they could have the same feel but would be hotter and maybe less forgiving.

Might seem crazy for 20 handicap to ask about such potenially unforgiving clubs but I am coming back to the sport after taking 10yrs off. Used to be a 12 handicap but the grind lost its appeal but over the last 2 years I have fell in love again. I like a traditonal looking club for sure and a soft feel. I am having more fun this time around and I know with more rounds and range time my scoring will get better.

havent heard of any either. the only remotely related jdm driver that comes to mind is something i've seen on ?tourspecgolf? while back, it wasnt made of wood but they claimed it produced the same feel as wood, cant recall the name. Mizuno used to make them as well, nice heads, really liked their 3w. i think your best bet is fishing on eBay, sometimes you see real good deals there. not too long ago picked up Hogan Apex speedslot with Apex 4 late 70s and in excellent condition for like $35, regrip it and is ready to go. if you wanna something Japan related look for Mizuno or Honma or Wood Bros All Japan model which has Japan islands on the sole plate :)

what blade on blade design does is it allows the cg to be moved slightly lower and towards the heel. another reason for doing it would be if you happen to have a very long, heel to toe, blade it can bring back the cg that is now shifted too far away from the heel because of blade length. no idea why epon did it on this particular model. without knowing exact parameters that only club designers know it might be very deceveing to judge it by the looks only. there could be a very good design reason for that shape eg like reasons described above or it could be as simple as form over function thing where the shape was designed first and approved and then tech designers had to make it happen.

I actually like them. I'm sure they are prettier in person. There must

Be a reason for the design. Thinking

dunno why you guys dont like it, looks like a very good looking blade to me. its a ripoff of Hogan's blade on blade design like mentioned before and even the name a ripoff of another Hogan model name tho that one had a different design although limited run model too. in fact 99 Hogan Apex was made by Endo in Japan, not designed by Endo tho. i think its great. pricey for a set of blades but presumably its a limited run model if you value such things.

its pretty much impossible to tell from your height alone because other factors are in play like how long your arms are and your posture and more importantly how flat or upright is your entry into impact. alot and probably majority of people dont match their address position in terms of where their hands end up at impact. i dont think anybody can do a proper static fit for that. launch monitor can help but lie angle with a driver being slightly off isnt that big of a deal as you have very little loft, no turf interaction to worry about (hopefully) and that can is being deep faced enough. if you were going for a shallow head that you gonna be planning on using off the deck as well thats a different story. there is very little room for adjustment, how much flatter can they make that zero for you couple of degrees max?, so unless you wanna try to torch bend $1399 driver you aint got much choice to get the right lie angle anyway.

I have decided to build a driver 43.5 inches long and am in discussions with TSG to help me. I was thinking of making the lie flatter to 58 degrees - I am 5ft 7. Do you think this is flat enough?

USGA/R&A equipment regulations state that "The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m)" so i think you all good :)

now THIS is goingto spur thougths on shaft length

i bought my 4 yr old daughter a $10 generic "7" iron its not its just a cheap kids club prob about 20 inchs? what ever it is i dont know but it s a kids club so u get the drift.

we were playing i nthe garden with it and i was chipping balls to her about 10 feet , ididnt miss one, i dint miss a beat. now

i was actually thinking of taking this out to a game and seeing whats what with crazy short shaft length ,designed only for short shots of course, bec the accuracy and distance control just mucking around was eye opening.

i guess its like robert garigus playing a 29 inch putter?????

they look pretty cool to me. would probably be more concerned with how it looks at address than face and sole looks anyway. please post back on long term results.

i appreciate your opinion and sharing your experiences its just the numbers you originally quoted are more like Hogan, Nelson, Demaret kinda numbers and average is average meaning that if you miss 6 one round and then miss 2 the next one then 2 is not the average. i'm not on a holy crusade against longer shafts and if it works for you for whatever reason who am i to tell you otherwise but if you try to justify that with numbers they gonna have to be correct or else it doesnt make much sense.

i'm only offering another side to the discussion, whether you or anyone draws any conclusions from my input is entirely up to you...

good point on lie angles tho i'm frankly not following manufacturers logic on that. take ryoma d1 premia for example at 46.5 length and 60 lie angle. for a very tall person that might work great but average height person or somebody with very flat entry how upright is that ? are you supposed to toe it up at address and then the shaft droop would faltten it out prior to impact ?

Some people get less hurt by a longer shaft. Usually players with a bit slower swing and people that doesn't hit it that far. If you don't hit it that far, then even if you hit it off line it might end up in the fairway or maybe in the light rough. I hit it quite far, so a shot that is as much off line as some of my golf buddies end up in the trees, just because it travels farther. But when it comes to dispersion, NOBODY will hit a longer shaft straighter than a short one, it's just that is hurts some people much less, or not much at all. But if you get professionally fitted to one driver that is 43.5 and another at 46 or more, you WILL hit the shorter club straighter on a TrackMan for example.

Of course, if you have a club head that is designed to go with a 47" long shaft cutting it to 43.5" will mess up the club because of weight, lie and even loft. But if you get a driver built from the start with a 43.5" shaft in mind, that will be the straighter driver guaranteed.

the average driving accuracy on pga tour is ~60%, the leaders in that stat are at ~70%. based on what you say and keeping in mind that again on average the driver would be used for about 12-14 shots per round and doing a little math i'd say either you are simply an exceptional driver of the golf ball as in a much better driver than pga tour leaders in driving accuracy and if thats the case more power to you but with such numbers you are hardly a good comparison to the average tour player not to mention average golfer, or you are not hitting your driver all that much during your average round, and why would that be, in which case what you say does not indicate driving accuracy to draw any conclusions from for the purpose of this discussion.

i typically don't miss that far off and not more than 1 or two fairways per round...and even then it's usually still playable.