Driver for senior mid-high handi

[jk_77]

G'day everyone.

Firstly... brilliant site. Been reading over past threads for the last hour or so and the feedback & info given in here is top notch stuff.

Anyway, just need some opinions for a driver.

I'm about to buy a driver for my old man. In his mid 60's, plays every Sunday, handi in the 90's and like every other golfer out there - looking for that 'magic' driver ;)

He's currently using a first model TM R7 (US version), with stock shaft with 10 degree loft. Before that, he was using the Callaway BB. Considering he is in his mid 60's, he's doesn't exactly have a power swing and relies on a bit of 'oomph' from the driver. The R7 at first did that, but his main issue seems to be the forgiveness factor (he claims he only hits around 3 out of 10 down the middle.. the rest go wayward). Obviously, the easy solution would be to blame the driver (as in 99% of cases, it's more likely the player than the equipment ;)).

So for an early B'day present, I was looking at buying the Honma MG712/MG611. I spoke to a Pro at the local driving range, and he claimed that Honma made the best gear, particularly for seniors who want the elusive maximum distance coupled with plenty of forgiveness.

But after having a read through the many pages in here, seems like there's a whole new world of drivers out there, in the Japanese market which most of us who live in the western world don't know about.

ATM - I'm really interested in the Epon 460 and the Tourstage 460, as there seems to be a lot of favourable reviews on these two. Suppose the only issue I've got is most of the users in here seem to be fairly young (well, younger than my dad anyway ;)) and have more power to their swing + lower handicaps, so I'm not sure if they would be suitable for my dad.

Plus, any feedback on the Beres lineup would be greatly appreciated.

So any advice on which driver I should go for? :)

[gocchin]

Hello and welcome to the forums! New technologies in driver materials and shafts can definitely help an older golfer like yourself even out the playing field. The Honma MG611 is actually a very good recommendation. It is geared towards the Senior golfer with a softer shaft and higher loft. I'd recommend you go for something in the 11.5* range which would automatically eliminate the X-Drive and Epon which are only available up to 10.5*. The X-Drive is considered an "Athlete" model in Japan, deep faced for the good ball striker so not forgiving for the higher handicapper. The Epon is more forgiving but is still deep faced.

Are you able to consistently hit the sweetspots on your driver? Do you have a rough idea on your swing speed or current driver distance?

A very very important factor will be shaft. Any given driver head will perform differently depending on the shaft. You could gain or lose 20 yards alone on shaft choice.

That said, popular drivers in Japan among higher handicapers or older players are the following:

Tourstage ViQ MX 460 - Tourstage's most forgiving driver and pretty long too... made for the mid to higher handicapper

Honma MG611 - Made for the Senior golfer and higher handicapper

Honma MG712 - Made for the mid handicapper

Mizuno JPX E500 460cc - High Moi type driver, very popular among mid to high handicappers, said to be very forgiving

PRGR 502 Silver 460cc, smaller faced but hot and forgiving

Callaway Hyper ERC 460cc, this driver is very unique in that it is used by anyone from pros to high handicappers which must mean something... it's hyperbolic face technology has made it the best callaway driver ever and hint hint, it's made by Endo (who makes Epon)

I think Bridgestone Tourstage's ViQ MX might be a good pick for you.

Also depending on your swing speed, even though it's not listed in the pro shop always, TSG can get senior flex shafts which may also help with distance gains.

[jk_77]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I'd recommend you go for something in the 11.5* range which would automatically eliminate the X-Drive and Epon which are only available up to 10.5*.

The driver is for my father and when he was buying the R7, I actually told him to go with more loft. That said, he still thinks he is young at heart, and said he wouldn't go for a driver with loft greater than 10.5 (he actually wanted to go with 9 degrees!!). I think his mentality is that the greater the loft = higher trajectory = less distance.

The X-Drive is considered an "Athlete" model in Japan, deep faced for the good ball striker so not forgiving for the higher handicapper. The Epon is more forgiving but is still deep faced.

Ahhh I see.

Are you able to consistently hit the sweetspots on your driver? Do you have a rough idea on your swing speed or current driver distance?

No idea with my father's swing speed, but considering his age (64), I wouldn't exactly call him a power player ;) As for consistency, I think that's probably his main problem. He tells me most of his miss hits end up in bad slices, so the bigger the sweet spot, the better I suppose.

Distance would be maybe... 220~230metres (approx 240~250yards)?

A very very important factor will be shaft. Any given driver head will perform differently depending on the shaft. You could gain or lose 20 yards alone on shaft choice.

Indeed.

With the Honmas, I was looking at 2 star. Although with the other drivers, not sure what kind of shaft would be good.

Tourstage ViQ MX 460 - Tourstage's most forgiving driver and pretty long too... made for the mid to higher handicapper

Honma MG611 - Made for the Senior golfer and higher handicapper

Honma MG712 - Made for the mid handicapper

Mizuno JPX E500 460cc - High Moi type driver, very popular among mid to high handicappers, said to be very forgiving

PRGR 502 Silver 460cc, smaller faced but hot and forgiving

Callaway Hyper ERC 460cc, this driver is very unique in that it is used by anyone from pros to high handicappers which must mean something... it's hyperbolic face technology has made it the best callaway driver ever and hint hint, it's made by Endo (who makes Epon)

I think Bridgestone Tourstage's ViQ MX might be a good pick for you.

Also depending on your swing speed, even though it's not listed in the pro shop always, TSG can get senior flex shafts which may also help with distance gains.

Great stuff!

I'll have a look at each driver. Problem with the Japanese drivers is not too many english reviews on them at all, even when you search in Google.

[Duffer19]

Hi guys,

After reading the posts, I would recommend the XXIO or XXIO Prime or S-Yard. With Honma 701 or 702 2 stars, it is really a hit and miss situation whether one can get the benefit. For a slicer, nothing can beat the XXIO with its closed face.

ps: I would be 61 in 3 months so I can understand what it mean to be a senior golfer.

[gocchin]

230-250 yards is still pretty fantastic for your father at 64 years of age!!

A bad shot as a slice could also indicate that the shaft is too stiff for him.

If he's not a power player, definitely the more loft the better. He's fighting gravity here so the right shaft combined with the right head will give him optimal trajectory.

The star system on the Honma's won't really affect performance I think, they are just ratings based on quality standard and level of master doing the install of that shaft.

[gocchin]

R is on to something too, the XXIO and XXIO prime are geared towards higher handicappers. The reason I didn't recommend them though was I recently hit a XXIO and I just wasn't that fond of the feel. There wasn't as much feedback for me and it felt very metallic. The Tourstage, Epon and Callway will definitely give more feel.

R is almost 61 and he still kills his Epon 460 so perhaps your dad can handle a 10.5 Epon with the right shaft since it is a higher launching head anyway.

[jk_77]

Hi guys,

After reading the posts, I would recommend the XXIO or XXIO Prime or S-Yard. With Honma 701 or 702 2 stars, it is really a hit and miss situation whether one can get the benefit. For a slicer, nothing can beat the XXIO with its closed face.

ps: I would be 61 in 3 months so I can understand what it mean to be a senior golfer.

Cheers for the feedback!

Prime with the closed face? Sounds good. I'll do some research on that.

Although can I ask how your Epon 460 is (I noticed you have that in your bag ;)). I've been doing some more reading and it seems the Epon is getting very nice reviews. Especially in terms of feel + all round ability. Can I ask - if I did opt for the Epon, what kind of shaft would be appropriate (I assume seniors would like a fair lightweight shaft that has a bit of kick to it?)

Also noticed the Mactec seems to be getting some good reviews too.

[jk_77]

230-250 yards is still pretty fantastic for your father at 64 years of age!!

A bad shot as a slice could also indicate that the shaft is too stiff for him.

If he's not a power player, definitely the more loft the better. He's fighting gravity here so the right shaft combined with the right head will give him optimal trajectory.

The star system on the Honma's won't really affect performance I think, they are just ratings based on quality standard and level of master doing the install of that shaft.

Well, he was a welder for a fair few years, so he's got a long of arm strength. Plus, he practices in the backyard every night for 40 minutes.

ATM - I really like the Epon 460 and the Honma 611 (although I'll ask him tonight if he doesn't mind playing with a loft of 11.5).

As for the star system on the Honma - I noticed the jump in price is quite substantial from the 2star to the 3star. From 3 to 4 is even bigger! How good is that ARMRQ shaft?

[jk_77]

R is on to something too, the XXIO and XXIO prime are geared towards higher handicappers. The reason I didn't recommend them though was I recently hit a XXIO and I just wasn't that fond of the feel. There wasn't as much feedback for me and it felt very metallic. The Tourstage, Epon and Callway will definitely give more feel.

R is almost 61 and he still kills his Epon 460 so perhaps your dad can handle a 10.5 Epon with the right shaft since it is a higher launching head anyway.

Not a great feel? Hmm... what do you mean by that? Doesn't feel good after a shot?

Sound after a shot is bad?

BTW - I found this interesting site ranking top clubs in Japan during Jan~Mar: http://www.inpakuto.com/content/view/154/81/

Yamaha make golf clubs too? lol.

BTW - no mention of Epon on that list.

[gocchin]

Not a great feel? Hmm... what do you mean by that? Doesn't feel good after a shot?

Sound after a shot is bad?

BTW - I found this interesting site ranking top clubs in Japan during Jan~Mar: http://www.inpakuto.com/content/view/154/81/

Yamaha make golf clubs too? lol.

BTW - no mention of Epon on that list.

Ah that would be my site (^_^)

Yamaha does make golf clubs and the 460D is also a pretty forgiving driver.

Epon is not on that list because like Honma it is not quite so mainstream. Epon is like Japan's best kept secret, except on TSG of course. Endo who Epon belongs to does not heavily market or distribute the product, though that may change in the future....

As for feel on the XXIO I meant on impact. It was a little harsh and yes metallic sounding. The Epon 10.5 has been in my bag most of the season and it is still the most unique soft feel I've ever felt in a driver.

[Duffer19]

Well, he was a welder for a fair few years, so he's got a long of arm strength. Plus, he practices in the backyard every night for 40 minutes.

ATM - I really like the Epon 460 and the Honma 611 (although I'll ask him tonight if he doesn't mind playing with a loft of 11.5).

As for the star system on the Honma - I noticed the jump in price is quite substantial from the 2star to the 3star. From 3 to 4 is even bigger! How good is that ARMRQ shaft?

Pardon my French but the beres 601 or 611 and 701 are crap. They are for those dont know how to play golf or really weak golfers. You could get far more superior clubs for half the price of 3 stars. I am not one of those into all the hypes but I am very happy with my Epon 460. As a matter of fact, I have 2 with different shafts. My main gamer in Toronto is a Diamana white which gives a lower launch and more roll and my other is a Fuji Six which gives a climbing draw. The white is 235 cpm at 45.25 and the SIX is 243 at 45.25 inches. The face of the Epon has more feel and it does feel softer than say a Srixon. I would not recommend a white board to anyone but a AXIV or Red board could be good.

[jk_77]

Ah that would be my site (^_^)

Really? lol - great site! Been reading a lot of stuff on your site and it's very informative!

Yamaha does make golf clubs and the 460D is also a pretty forgiving driver.

Ahhh I see.

Epon is not on that list because like Honma it is not quite so mainstream. Epon is like Japan's best kept secret, except on TSG of course. Endo who Epon belongs to does not heavily market or distribute the product, though that may change in the future....

Sounds good! As long as the club works.

As for feel on the XXIO I meant on impact. It was a little harsh and yes metallic sounding. The Epon 10.5 has been in my bag most of the season and it is still the most unique soft feel I've ever felt in a driver.

So a bit like the old Ping's then? I noticed the R7/Nike have a 'thud' sound, unlike the Ping/Callaways which have a more 'metal' sound. My dad said he prefers the old Callaway sound to the TM sound. As for feel - I'm not sure which his high handi, if feel would be that important, but if it comes standard with the club, sounds great!

Soft feel sounds great - but wouldn't that mean less distance?

My dad's korean (and for that matter, so am I ;)), so there's this aura around that Japanese clubs are better suited for asian players.. not sure if there is any truth in that, but from my readings - it seems that most of the Japanese clubs are made in Japan, unlike the USA based clubs which - while designed in the states, are all made in China.

[jk_77]

Pardon my French but the beres 601 or 611 and 701 are crap. They are for those dont know how to play golf or really weak golfers. You could get far more superior clubs for half the price of 3 stars.

Point taken - but I suppose that considering they charge so much for their clubs and still remain in business, they must be doing something right ;)

I am not one of those into all the hypes but I am very happy with my Epon 460. As a matter of fact, I have 2 with different shafts. My main gamer in Toronto is a Diamana white which gives a lower launch and more roll and my other is a Fuji Six which gives a climbing draw. The white is 235 cpm at 45.25 and the SIX is 243 at 45.25 inches. The face of the Epon has more feel and it does feel softer than say a Srixon. I would not recommend a white board to anyone but a AXIV or Red board could be good.

Hmm... I have no idea on shafts, so any info is good info ;)

BTW - with Tour Spec Golf shop - do they ship to Australia? If so, how much?

BTW2 - I noticed a fair few Honmas on Ebay... but more importantly, they are at very cheap prices (for instance, 3~4 star models - albeit, they seem like older models, which are almost brand new all going for under $500US). Are these fakes or just well preserved second hand gear going at a good price?

[Duffer19]

Point taken - but I suppose that considering they charge so much for their clubs and still remain in business, they must be doing something right ;)

Hmm... I have no idea on shafts, so any info is good info ;)

BTW - with Tour Spec Golf shop - do they ship to Australia? If so, how much?

BTW2 - I noticed a fair few Honmas on Ebay... but more importantly, they are at very cheap prices (for instance, 3~4 star models - albeit, they seem like older models, which are almost brand new all going for under $500US). Are these fakes or just well preserved second hand gear going at a good price?

Honma was almost out of business if not for new investors and the Beres line. The old Honma lines was so confusing that one just does not know what to get. The new Beres line clearly defines player groups. For ladies, weak seniors and/or hackers, the 500,600 and part of 700 series. For better players, the 800 and 900 series. The lighter and r flex Honma Armaq shafts are easier to handle while the heavier and stiffer shafts require more skill. If you set your mind to Honma, choose the new Beres line from TSG get some recommendation from Chris.

[K2_2]

The Beres line isn't bad, I think the quality is currently quite good.

The 5, 6, and 7 series are for players with lower swingspeeds. For someone who consistantly drives 220+ meters, I'd look at the 8 series. As for Honma's star system, it used to be based on who made the club (more stars meant a more skilled craftsman while lower stars were done by newer employees... quality was still quite good). Now the star system on the ARMRQ shafts indicates differences in materials... the higher star shafts (especially 3 and above) have slightly different materials that are supposed to reduce disperssion on mis**ts. The 912 with the right shaft is a very nice club.

That said, if your Dad is out to the right, I would second the XXIO as a great option. Epon, ViQ, and ERC Hyper are also fantastic options, but their faces aren't as closed.

[sarintr]

I cheer EPON 10.5 H-COR. IT was easy to hit with deep face and H-COR Face. Nice sounds also sir.

[jk_77]

Well, just an update.

Spoke to my father yesterday and he said that it was a HOOK problem he had with the R7, not a SLICE problem.

He said that he usually just opens up the club face a bit to try and fix the problem... but in recent rounds, even that hasn't helped.

So problem best to go for a club that has an open face me thinks ;)

As for distance - he mentioned that 220~230 metres is for good shots - ones he hits directly in the middle (with only a slight fade). But for miss**ts, anywhere between 190~210.

I asked him what his swing speed is, and he told me he's never actually measured it. He did say that he hits his 5 iron approx 140 metres (I hit mine approx 150 and I think my swing speed was around the 80mph mark). So safe to guess around the 75mph mark for my dad?

That said, he did mention that his driver swing speed is almost exactly the same as his iron swing speed... perhaps a touch faster.

He prefers 10 degrees as his loft... he grudgingly admits maybe 9 degrees is too difficult to control. But he definitely doesn't want 11.5 degrees. He thinks the higher the ball flight, the less distance. As for shaft, he doesn't really care what kind of shaft, as long as the ball goes straight and long ;)

[Duffer19]

Well, just an update.

Spoke to my father yesterday and he said that it was a HOOK problem he had with the R7, not a SLICE problem.

He said that he usually just opens up the club face a bit to try and fix the problem... but in recent rounds, even that hasn't helped.

So problem best to go for a club that has an open face me thinks ;)

As for distance - he mentioned that 220~230 metres is for good shots - ones he hits directly in the middle (with only a slight fade). But for miss**ts, anywhere between 190~210.

I asked him what his swing speed is, and he told me he's never actually measured it. He did say that he hits his 5 iron approx 140 metres (I hit mine approx 150 and I think my swing speed was around the 80mph mark). So safe to guess around the 75mph mark for my dad?

That said, he did mention that his driver swing speed is almost exactly the same as his iron swing speed... perhaps a touch faster.

He prefers 10 degrees as his loft... he grudgingly admits maybe 9 degrees is too difficult to control. But he definitely doesn't want 11.5 degrees. He thinks the higher the ball flight, the less distance. As for shaft, he doesn't really care what kind of shaft, as long as the ball goes straight and long ;)

Firstly with the R7, trying adjustin the weight to put the heavy one at the toe but i dont think getting a open face driver is the answer. For the 5 iron to go 140 m (approx 155 yards) his ss for driver is definitely faster the 75 or more like 85 to 90 mph. Yours is likely to be 90+. His R7 could very well be too flex for his ss. My stop gap solution for myself is to get a low spin shaft (Diamana white ) and lower spin head (?) to take the left and right out of play.

I think open face driver is just not suitable for a mid to high handicap play but 10 tp 10.5 degree of loft is fine.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Duffer19

[jk_77]

Firstly with the R7, trying adjustin the weight to put the heavy one at the toe but i dont think getting a open face driver is the answer. For the 5 iron to go 140 m (approx 155 yards) his ss for driver is definitely faster the 75 or more like 85 to 90 mph. Yours is likely to be 90+.

Actually, he mentioned that his swing speed for driver is almost the same as for his iron shots. Like most senior asian players, it's more about consistency for them (plus, they don't want to throw out a back ;)) and let the club do all the work. I saw swing speed for driver would be around 75... maybe 80mph as well, so not really that fast.

He's tried adjusting the weights on the R7 with the turnkeys they supplied, but doesn't seem to help.

As for me, you're right ;) I used to clock in at around 98~100mph for my driver. That said, consistency was terrible. For my iron shots, I deliberately use a slower swing, due to my inconsistent swing. I played baseball for many years, and I found that while it did wonders for my upper body strength + waist speed, in terms of accuracy... terrible ;) I have a tendency to not take the same swing path.. ie, my upswing does not equal the same path as my downswing and as a result, balls spray everywhere ;)

His R7 could very well be too flex for his ss. My stop gap solution for myself is to get a low spin shaft (Diamana white ) and lower spin head (?) to take the left and right out of play.

Well the shaft is basically the stock TM shaft (I think normal stiffness). You think he should upgrade to stiff?

[Duffer19]

I cannot really make any recommendation as I am not a fitter but almost a senior Asian golfer. You cannot have the same swing speed for a driver which is 45 inches the same as a 5 irons which is 30 some inches long. I can understand the 5 iron being 75 mph but same as the swing for a driver? It would mean that one would purposely slow the driver swing so much. Perhaps it is best to see a fitter or a professional for help.