Investing in Wedges...help me

[Shankopotamus]

I know, I know. There is a wedge post just below mine of someone else asking for help. But hey, I need help too. Basically, I'm going to treat myself to a set of wedges. I play 51/57, bending a 52 or even a 53 to lower the bounce (I'm a picker/sweeper) and playing a 57 (like my vega rafw-03), or having to bend a 56 or 58 (depending on the original bounce of the wedge). I just recently moved out to the Midwest from NJ and am unfamiliar with the turf conditions out here as of yet. From what I've heard, the fairways are not super tight. Most of the better public courses out here seem to use zoysia grass. And I'll be traveling back and forth to NJ, so I might want something that offers versatile turf interaction. But I'm not so concerned about the type of turf as I am the constant 10-15 mph winds in the Midwest. Also, I currently play with Miura MC-101s. I picked them up about 1 1/2 years ago, but honestly, only did it b/c I got such a good deal on them. I think I got lucky though b/c the grind on those irons seem to work out with my swing. Anyways, I'd like a wedge that would be a good transition into my Miuras. Also, I've lost a good amount of power and distance over that last few years due to some back and flexibility issues. So my irons have 95g aerotech graphite shafts, which are good b/c they are mid kick, but I'm still concerned with getting the ball up too high with all the wind. Would a wedge with a slightly higher CG help? I don't know.

Well, I've given you guys as much information, which I thought might be useful, as I could. I know there's like a gazillion wedges on the market, but given the info above, if you guys could make some expert opinions, I'd really, really appreciate it. Oh, and by the way, please don't suggest the RC db protos... I can't afford those beauties...I sooooo wish I could, but I can't. I am very budget conscious. Thanks, guys!

[Spoon]

I know, I know. There is a wedge post just below mine of someone else asking for help. But hey, I need help too. Basically, I'm going to treat myself to a set of wedges. I play 51/57, bending a 52 or even a 53 to lower the bounce (I'm a picker/sweeper) and playing a 57 (like my vega rafw-03), or having to bend a 56 or 58 (depending on the original bounce of the wedge). I just recently moved out to the Midwest from NJ and am unfamiliar with the turf conditions out here as of yet. From what I've heard, the fairways are not super tight. Most of the better public courses out here seem to use zoysia grass. And I'll be traveling back and forth to NJ, so I might want something that offers versatile turf interaction. But I'm not so concerned about the type of turf as I am the constant 10-15 mph winds in the Midwest. Also, I currently play with Miura MC-101s. I picked them up about 1 1/2 years ago, but honestly, only did it b/c I got such a good deal on them. I think I got lucky though b/c the grind on those irons seem to work out with my swing. Anyways, I'd like a wedge that would be a good transition into my Miuras. Also, I've lost a good amount of power and distance over that last few years due to some back and flexibility issues. So my irons have 95g aerotech graphite shafts, which are good b/c they are mid kick, but I'm still concerned with getting the ball up too high with all the wind. Would a wedge with a slightly higher CG help? I don't know.

Well, I've given you guys as much information, which I thought might be useful, as I could. I know there's like a gazillion wedges on the market, but given the info above, if you guys could make some expert opinions, I'd really, really appreciate it. Oh, and by the way, please don't suggest the RC db protos... I can't afford those beauties...I sooooo wish I could, but I can't. I am very budget conscious. Thanks, guys!

well if your a sweeper and if the course conditions are not so tight then you can get something with

mid bounce with a narrowish sole similar to your miuras. now you are right there are many many

wedges at the moment. a lot of the wedges have pretty versatile grinds so you can pretty much open

them up with ease. but with your statement on ball flight the yamahas and RC non protos come to mind

as i think they will produce a slightly lower ball flight. also check the blog a lot of reviews on most of the wedges,

they even have a miura wedge reviewed.

i was in the same boat as you but for opposite reasons, i am a digger and needed something with a higher

bounce, not to mention its monsoon season in asia and all the fairways will be damp and soggy. take a look

at the FS section here, many members selling their wedges for good prices. hopefully there is something there you like.

good luck

[Shankopotamus]

If I get set up with one of the wedges you have suggested, will installing dg spinner shafts end up making the wedges either 1) launch too low for me, or 2) go nowhere b/c I use 95g shafts in my irons and am not used to 124g shafts?

[Spoon]

If I get set up with one of the wedges you have suggested, will installing dg spinner shafts end up making the wedges either 1) launch too low for me, or 2) go nowhere b/c I use 95g shafts in my irons and am not used to 124g shafts?

the dg spinners can either launch low or high. depends on what you are trying to achieve.

they are no different than any other wedge shaft w the exception of the added spin. as for

the weight i think they are just right, then again i game nspro 1050 which is 110g.

if your worried about weight get the nspro wv 105. now thats an awesome wedge shaft.

[Eca]

I'm also one of the wedge help posters here and it's tough. It's my next project after driver. One thing I can add to C's comment is to make sure you get s swingweight progression right and pay particular attention to the lie angle being your scoring clubs. It's still no fool proof. I tried same brand, same shaft and still no success. Even thought of buying an extra PW and bending it to GW loft just to get a continuous feel. It just doesn't feel right past PW.

[Shankopotamus]

I've read the reviews on the suggested RC and Yamaha wedges. They sound like really great wedges. I have some concerns with both of them though. With the combination of lofts that I play, if I bend the RC in either the 56 or 58 in order to get my desired 57, the bounce is either too much (with bending the 56) or too littlle (with bending the 58). With the Yamaha, with the pics that I've seen, it doesn't really look like I'd be able to open up the face for those tricky pop and stop shots. What do you guys think? Also, what do you guys think about the Kenmochi black wedges and Yururi Tour wedges? Both of those offerings seem to have more loft options to customize a wedge set.

[Spoon]

I've read the reviews on the suggested RC and Yamaha wedges. They sound like really great wedges. I have some concerns with both of them though. With the combination of lofts that I play, if I bend the RC in either the 56 or 58 in order to get my desired 57, the bounce is either too much (with bending the 56) or too littlle (with bending the 58). With the Yamaha, with the pics that I've seen, it doesn't really look like I'd be able to open up the face for those tricky pop and stop shots. What do you guys think? Also, what do you guys think about the Kenmochi black wedges and Yururi Tour wedges? Both of those offerings seem to have more loft options to customize a wedge set.

I'm gaming the kenmochi in 52 and 58 although my real set up is 51/57 no problem.

Grind on the 58 pretty versatile and I think they will do just fine on tight turf.

[Eca]

Thats where i get confused with these grinds, that one that lets you open/heel relief and still keeps the leading edge close to the ground. If this is your 58 strong lob/sand wedge.. kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it? I mean the purpose of the bounce is to act like a keel and keeps leading edge off the ground for the sand shot?

Educate me if I'm understanding this wrong.

[Shankopotamus]

I don't know either. I'm so lost, haha. That's a good question you raise though, Eca.

As far as the practicality of grinding a wedge, I'm pretty sure that the wider the sole, which would naturally offer more bounce, the more aggressively you could apply a grind and give yourself a lot more heel/toe relief and even trailing edge relief. With thinner soles, I'm guessing you can't be as aggressive with a grind b/c the bounce would be naturally lower already. So you can essentially take a wider sole, grind away the toe and heel for some versatility with different lies, but not do too much with the middle of the sole, which would still give you the necessary bounce for sand shots.

Please keep in mind that I'm totally a newbie and have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm just speaking from what sort of makes sense to me, but if you ask my wife, I'm not all that sensible.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Shankopotamus

[Shambles]

Thats where i get confused with these grinds, that one that lets you open/heel relief and still keeps the leading edge close to the ground. If this is your 58 strong lob/sand wedge.. kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it? I mean the purpose of the bounce is to act like a keel and keeps leading edge off the ground for the sand shot?

Educate me if I'm understanding this wrong.

The purpose of the bounce is to reduce the tendency of the club to bury itself when swung at an angle be it steep or shallow. You can destroy the design by swinging more steeply and you can also find the angle that works better for you by experimenting so that you can find a swing that allows you to take a little sand and still have a useful height/length result, and also allows a reasonably easy direct strike at the ball.

The different grinds allow you to effectively move the bounce when you open or close the face angle. They can help keep the leading edge a bit closer to the ground thereby allowing you to slip the club under the ball and, hopefully, get enough backspin for your needs. You could see the effect of different grinds by putting the wedge on a table top and playing with the shaft angles, simulating different stances and ball positions. It ought to be possible for you to see how small changes can do much. A little grinding at the heel of millimeters can allow the heel of the shaft to move a fair amount and still have the leading edge close enough to the ground to let you slip the leading edge under the ball, and yet let the bounce prevent you from burying the club. Fiddling with a wedge on a table also makes it easier for you to see that there are considerable positions you can approach the ball from relative to the ground's firmness, and the required swing steepness to be able to have a chance at striking the ball in a manner you were planning on. Getting a grind on a wedge that suits you personally can be difficult to achieve, depending on the demands you place on your wedge. Success and failure can be defined by as little as a millimeter and the measure is done by what you feel and how good you truly are.

I like looking at a wedge on a table because it allows me to see things up close and personal. If I can see it and get the picture in my head, I have a better chance at knowing what that head will need to do when planning a shot from the end of the shaft. For me, getting a picture helps plan the angle of attack and even the strength of the needed swing. It also helps me understand why some wedges are not going to be worth the effort and others a treasure that must never be allowed to wander away.

Shambles

Edited June 2, 2011 by Shambles

[Shankopotamus]

The purpose of the bounce is to reduce the tendency of the club to bury itself when swung at an angle be it steep or shallow. You can destroy the design by swinging more steeply and you can also find the angle that works better for you by experimenting so that you can find a swing that allows you to take a little sand and still have a useful height/length result, and also allows a reasonably easy direct strike at the ball.

The different grinds allow you to effectively move the bounce when you open or close the face angle. They can help keep the leading edge a bit closer to the ground thereby allowing you to slip the club under the ball and, hopefully, get enough backspin for your needs. You could see the effect of different grinds by putting the wedge on a table top and playing with the shaft angles, simulating different stances and ball positions. It ought to be possible for you to see how small changes can do much. A little grinding at the heel of millimeters can allow the heel of the shaft to move a fair amount and still have the leading edge close enough to the ground to let you slip the leading edge under the ball, and yet let the bounce prevent you from burying the club. Fiddling with a wedge on a table also makes it easier for you to see that there are considerable positions you can approach the ball from relative to the ground's firmness, and the required swing steepness to be able to have a chance at striking the ball in a manner you were planning on. Getting a grind on a wedge that suits you personally can be difficult to achieve, depending on the demands you place on your wedge. Success and failure can be defined by as little as a millimeter and the measure is done by what you feel and how good you truly are.

I like looking at a wedge on a table because it allows me to see things up close and personal. If I can see it and get the picture in my head, I have a better chance at knowing what that head will need to do when planning a shot from the end of the shaft. For me, getting a picture helps plan the angle of attack and even the strength of the needed swing. It also helps me understand why some wedges are not going to be worth the effort and others a treasure that must never be allowed to wander away.

Shambles

Wow, your response totally melted mine. Great visualization as I was reading your post. I'm going to go put my sand wedge on the kitchen counter now.

[Spoon]

The purpose of the bounce is to reduce the tendency of the club to bury itself when swung at an angle be it steep or shallow. You can destroy the design by swinging more steeply and you can also find the angle that works better for you by experimenting so that you can find a swing that allows you to take a little sand and still have a useful height/length result, and also allows a reasonably easy direct strike at the ball.

The different grinds allow you to effectively move the bounce when you open or close the face angle. They can help keep the leading edge a bit closer to the ground thereby allowing you to slip the club under the ball and, hopefully, get enough backspin for your needs. You could see the effect of different grinds by putting the wedge on a table top and playing with the shaft angles, simulating different stances and ball positions. It ought to be possible for you to see how small changes can do much. A little grinding at the heel of millimeters can allow the heel of the shaft to move a fair amount and still have the leading edge close enough to the ground to let you slip the leading edge under the ball, and yet let the bounce prevent you from burying the club. Fiddling with a wedge on a table also makes it easier for you to see that there are considerable positions you can approach the ball from relative to the ground's firmness, and the required swing steepness to be able to have a chance at striking the ball in a manner you were planning on. Getting a grind on a wedge that suits you personally can be difficult to achieve, depending on the demands you place on your wedge. Success and failure can be defined by as little as a millimeter and the measure is done by what you feel and how good you truly are.

I like looking at a wedge on a table because it allows me to see things up close and personal. If I can see it and get the picture in my head, I have a better chance at knowing what that head will need to do when planning a shot from the end of the shaft. For me, getting a picture helps plan the angle of attack and even the strength of the needed swing. It also helps me understand why some wedges are not going to be worth the effort and others a treasure that must never be allowed to wander away.

Shambles

Excellent post! couldnt have been explained better.

[FrankThong]

The purpose of the bounce is to reduce the tendency of the club to bury itself when swung at an angle be it steep or shallow. You can destroy the design by swinging more steeply and you can also find the angle that works better for you by experimenting so that you can find a swing that allows you to take a little sand and still have a useful height/length result, and also allows a reasonably easy direct strike at the ball.

The different grinds allow you to effectively move the bounce when you open or close the face angle. They can help keep the leading edge a bit closer to the ground thereby allowing you to slip the club under the ball and, hopefully, get enough backspin for your needs. You could see the effect of different grinds by putting the wedge on a table top and playing with the shaft angles, simulating different stances and ball positions. It ought to be possible for you to see how small changes can do much. A little grinding at the heel of millimeters can allow the heel of the shaft to move a fair amount and still have the leading edge close enough to the ground to let you slip the leading edge under the ball, and yet let the bounce prevent you from burying the club. Fiddling with a wedge on a table also makes it easier for you to see that there are considerable positions you can approach the ball from relative to the ground's firmness, and the required swing steepness to be able to have a chance at striking the ball in a manner you were planning on. Getting a grind on a wedge that suits you personally can be difficult to achieve, depending on the demands you place on your wedge. Success and failure can be defined by as little as a millimeter and the measure is done by what you feel and how good you truly are.

I like looking at a wedge on a table because it allows me to see things up close and personal. If I can see it and get the picture in my head, I have a better chance at knowing what that head will need to do when planning a shot from the end of the shaft. For me, getting a picture helps plan the angle of attack and even the strength of the needed swing. It also helps me understand why some wedges are not going to be worth the effort and others a treasure that must never be allowed to wander away.

Shambles

Yeah, great post. Now I know when I duff a wedge, it's the club, not me. ;)

[Eca]

Awesome shambles. Thanks for taking the time. I too will be doing the table thing.

[Shambles]

Thanks much for the interest.

Frankly, I had a lot of trouble with the wedge until I figured out that my problem was mostly from skulling the ball and that was caused by the bounce. From that point I found that the bounce is in different places and there was no real magic to a good wedge. It's just a wedge that you know and understand better and can therefore use in many more ways. The classic teaching on how to use a wedge only works well when you have thick and fluffy sand and don't need to go that far. When the sand becomes more firm, you need to do some thinking and creating. That's where a good wedge you know and understand comes into it's own. They really don't all work the same way, though you can make them all work in some ways.

My all time winner, so far, is an old low bounce Fourteen 56* wedge. I was told it had an 8* bounce by the former owner but I never measured it and really don't know how. Using the table I saw so much potential that I just used one or two practice strokes to decide to become the owner. Scared me silly when my home course added thick fluffy sand to almost all the sand traps but the thing opens so wide the bounce magnified tremendously and proved easy to use. I suspected this on the table but the cooking is always tested in the tasting.

Currently I am bagging my old Eye 2's including the SW that is very useful but I never liked. I still don't know why I never liked, and still don't like this wedge, but it is a very good wedge that I can use but don't like. Maybe it's because it's the wedge that got me started with the table exam and from which I learned much. Anybody out there really have any affection for his most influential grade school teacher ? This wedge got me thinking and learning and I used it for 20 years, more or less, and never liked it. I still don't like it but I have a deep investment in learning it and it is still in very good shape. Getting it to roll the ball is still a job, but it stops the ball very well. I think my dislike is caused by this specific model wanting to send the ball up in the air as much as possible, whereas other Ping wedges, though less useful to me, allow me more access to lower flights. A high flight is good but the low flight with roll also has it's uses in the short game.

The table test only makes the bounce and leading edge relationship very visible to you. If you simulate the path of the swing on the table, you ought to be able to see why some shots and ball positions will be more difficult than others. It's not enough to simply put it there. You need to simulate the swing, slowly so you don't damage the table, and see where the bounce takes effect, and then see where in your swing you do the same thing with the head. It's only a beginning and the real work is on the range or the fairway, but if you have a clear picture in your mind of what the head is going through, you might better understand what you are actually doing and adjust your swing plans for more success around the green.

Shambles