correct use of hips

[goalieboy]

I have heard that you are supposed to start the downswing with the hips...

When I try this, I end up looking like Tiger with the bullfighter swing he has (hips way too open) and I shove everything straight right, just like he does. (albeit 200 yards shorter!)

Can anyone explain how the hip move is done correctly? I would appreciate a simple swing thought or explanation of how you make that same move.

thanks,

Goalieboy.

[jeffy]

This is perhaps the ultimate "chicken or egg" question in golf instruction and the differing views on this topic fill many golf books.

To cut through it all, the hips first theory is perhaps most driven by Ben Hogan's Five Lessons, one of the great classics of golf instruction. In his book, Hogan states definitively that the downswing is initiated by the hips turning to the left and everything else follows. He does go on to say that he hits as hard as he can through impact with both his left and right hand.

This advice has proven disastrous for many golfers who have tried it. It is also the swing key that many good golfers use to start their downswing. How can this be? There seem to be two schools of thought on why this confusing situation exists.

One school, propounded by Jim Flick, observes that good golfers first learn to powerfully swing the clubhead with their arms and hands, with the body responding or reacting to the swinging motion. Swinging this way usually promotes a draw. In order to control the ball flight and fade the ball, skilled golfers eventually learn to use their body (not just the hips) to retard or delay the hands and arms release. As we know, Hogan preferred to fade, but got much of his power from tremendously strong hands and wrists, so naturally, his swing evolved to where beginning the downswing with his hips worked very well.

The sugggestion from this school is: learn to swing the clubhead first (Grout had the young Nicklaus hit thousands of balls with both heels rooted to the ground, which would make it very tough to lead the swing with the hips) then add conscious body action once you become a proficient right to left player.

The other school of thought, promoted by instructor Casey Eberting (http://cegolf.com/), is that Hogan's Five Lessons was a complete method and that all elements, particularly the takeaway had to be applied as Hogan taught them in order for the "hips first" downswing to work. In fact, Eberting goes even further and claims that Hogan never completely described the proper backswing and, without that knowledge, it is difficult to make the Hogan method work. Of course, if you attend one of his golf schools, he'll explain it all to you!

I'm pretty sympathetic to both schools: in my swing, particularly with the driver, although my body does lead, it feels like it is doing so to "get out of the way" of the hands and arms rather than "pulling" them through. On shorter shots, however, I find that the knees, feet and hips sometimes need to help drive the pivot in order to keep the hands from overtaking the forward body turn.

Also, I do believe that what Hogan taught is a complete method and, unless you more or less swing that way already, selecting one element out of the whole and expecting it to help your swing is not likely to work.

So where does this leave you? If "hips first" isn't helping your swing, dump it. As long as your hips are turning on the forward swing, you don't need to consciously start them first in order to play good golf.

Good luck!

Jeff

[goalieboy]

Jeffey,

thanks for that! I am trying to concentrate more on my shoulder turn and matching my backswing and downswing tempo.(ie: not lunging at the ball) I am trying to forget jamming my hips to the left, (as one pro tried to teach me)...

Sometimes though, I am hitting some fat shots. Is this because I am not getting a good weight transfer? How do you shift your weight on the downswing without spinning the hips left or swaying?

thanks,

Goalieboy.

[jeffy]

Excellent question Grasshopper!

If my body is not moving properly, there are two things I try. One is (while practicing) to imagine rubber bands attached all the way up the left side of my body (from ankle to shoulder) and then think of them being stretched on the backswing and released on the downswing. This can be effective but can sometimes cause a spinout of the shoulders, so you need to make sure your hands and arms (particularly the right) are releasing with the body.

What I've found to work better, and can function as a playing thought, may sound strange but here it is: from the top of the backswing, swing your right arm straight down towards the ground, keeping your right wrist cocked. If I've made a good backswing (straight left wrist, wrists loaded and left arm relaxed) this move actually causes my body to transfer to the left side and, once there, to rotate left.

You can practice this move without a club, using your right arm only to get the feel of it. As you lower your right arm from the top, in a folded and cocked position (lead with the elbow), your body will shift and turn toward the target. At least mine does! When I get it right, I really smoke it.

Another good drill to learn the feel (from Laird Small via Stan Utley) is to hold a ball in your right hand, raise your rigt arm into a loaded position (elbow folded, pointing down, wrist cocked back) then throw the ball (hard), while keeping your shoulders back, at the ground on a line 45* to the right of the target. This drill is also good for "over-the-toppers".

Hope these translate well via text! Good luck!

Jeff

[jeffy]

I forgot to mention that getting in a good posture at address (knees flexed, back straight, butt out, arms hanging, tilt at the waist, weight favoring left side) and maintaining that posture throughout the swing is important. If I'm fatting the ball, I've often found that focusing on maintaining my posture, particularly the flex in my right knee, helps make the body responsive on the downswing.

Jeff

[goalieboy]

thanks again,

I have heard about starting the downswing by straightening the right arm but it never made sense to me. I think I get it now. As long as I lead with the elbow I must be doing it right, right?

My current swing thought is to start the swing by moving the left shoulder back. This seems to help me get going smoothly. I try not to manipulate my hands at all as I have a tendency to roll them over somewhat during the takeaway.

I am also concentrating on feeling the tension build in my right leg as a means of eliminating that stupid sway to the right I developed by trying to make a "bigger turn." I don't know about you, but there is no way I can turn my left shoulder over my right knee without really swaying off the ball. This new, more centered position almost feels like a reverse tilt compared to my old move but by practicing with a mirror I can see that I am getting behind the ball without moving off it.

I was wondering, once I am loaded at the top, would it be helpful to "push of " with the inside of my right foot to make the hips turn back left? This seems like an easy enough move and now that I am feeling more tension in my right leg it seems a good way to get going powerfully. Any thoughts?

Finally, my pro has had me hit the impact bag while trying to really make sure that I turn the toe of the club over. This requires me to roll my hands to the left at impact. Does that seem a good idea? You mentioned making sure that I release the hands, particularly the right with the body.

How do you do your release compared to the impact bag drill I am doing.

thanks for your patience,

Goalieboy

[jeffy]

No problem; I'm enjoying this. I just hope I don't ruin your game.

On the downswing, just straightening the right arm doesn't do it: without a conscious move of the body, you'll just cast the club. In the move I'm describing, the right arm has to move towards the ball, with the elbow folded and right wrist cocked back in the "tray" position. The arm straighten as it approaches the ball.

On your backswing thought, ideally you can find a backswing thought that involves the hands to some degree, since they, not your shoulders, control the club. This is the one area that seems to give me the most trouble. One thought you might try is to start the backswing with both shoulders as the wrists load. I find the pulling back of the right shoulder can reduce the tendency to roll the wrists too much.

I think what you are doing with the right leg on the backswing makes a lot of sense. You wouldn't know it from what many golf instructors teach, but many of the greats were very centered in a "hanging left" position at the top of the swing. I wouldn't go wild with the conscious push off with the right foot, though: again the feeling should be of the body "getting out of the way", not pulling the arms and hands into the ball. If you've maintained your posture and flex in the right knee and feel "loaded", then the feet, knees and hips should move reactively to the lowering of the right arm. If you do push, make it out toward the ball, so the body rotates; a big lateral move is unnecessary, and harmful, if you are centered over the ball on the backswing and don't sway.

What it sounds like your pro wants to accomplish with the impact bag is to promote a squaring of the club with the hands, arms and wrists, instead of the shoulders, which is very desirable. I would focus on: (i) hips open at impact, (ii) shoulders held back (back remain pointed at the target for as long as possible), (iii) strong strike with the right arm and hand while mantaining the angle in the right wrist as long as possible ("wipe the floor" with your right palm), and (iv) strike with the back of the left hand with rotation of the left forearm down and to the left through impact (obviously the impact bag will keep it from going to the left after impact, but that is the action you want to feel). Turning the toe over is the right feeling but the hands need to lead the clubhead to avoid a bunch of problems.

An interesting book that is the source for many of these thoughts is "Let 'er Rip" by Gardner d**kinson, a great ball striker and life long student of the swing. It is out of print, but you can usually get it used from www.alibris.com.

Good luck,

Jeff

[goalieboy]

Jeff,

I'm glad to hear you are enjoying this! Thanks for clearing up a few more things...

For now, I am going to stick with getting loaded into the right side and turning the toe over.

I am going to try, as you suggested, to focus on the hands and arms moving the club back. I want to try that right shoulder thought you gave me. One question; what do you mean by "start the backswing with both shoulders as the wrists load"? I get the shoulders part but I am not sure about the wrists. When does this begin to happen in your backswing?

I read a book from the PGA that suggests starting the backswing by moving the left arm across the chest as far as you can and let that motion turn your shoulders. Any experience with this move?

They seem really big on this as opposed to the Leadbetter style whole body move that had me all messed up...

thanks,

Goalieboy.

[jeffy]

My tendency has been to lift the arms then cock the wrists late, which leads to an overswing. So I try to begin the wrist cock, or load as I prefer to call it (load to me is more descriptive of the desired feeling), pretty much from the start of the backswing. To encourage this, I'll make some deep, soft waggles to keep the wrists flexible and the left arm soft. After a w couple of waggles, I'll then also practice beginning the backswing (to waist high) with the shoulders turning and the wrists cocking back while the hands remain in position in front of the body (rather than immediately pulled back while the chest remains static). For me, a simultaneous cocking of the wrists and turning of the shoulders produces a nice compact and connected backswing. It also helps get the right elbow in a folded position pointing to the ground.

I've found the left arm push back to be effective, but it can be dangerous. If your shoulders are relaxed and freely turn as the left arm pushes back, that is great. But, if your shoulders are stuck (from tension, for example), then the right arm and elbow can tend to float back and behind you and get in a very nasty position. I think the right arm needs to resist the left arm a liitle if you use the left arm push takeaway in order to force your upper to body turn. Otherwise, you can wind up with a very weak lift of the left arm across the chest.

Take care,

Jeff

[hue]

At the start of the downsing for swingers there is a LATERAL bump of the hips of two inches or so . They BUMP towards to the target BEFORE they turn. To practice this place a chair behind you so that your right buttock touches it on the backstroke and KEEP it touching as you bump left. Hogan said there is a slight LATERAL move of the hips before they turn. Turning them straight away creates the OVER THE TOP MOVE .