TourSpecGolfer

There is a pretty big difference between the two. The biggest would be that the P is a 2 piece head using a forged body with a maraging stainless steel face which equates to more distance and forgiveness but sacrifices feel. The V is a one piece head focused on feel and control. The Epon 501/502/503 is an undercut only iron while the TW717P has an undercut AND is 2 piece. Included I have two links that provide more info but more importantly show you video of all angles accurately of the TW717V & TW717P TW-717V: http://www.honmagolf.co.jp/en/item/club/iron_tw_717v.html TW-717P: http://www.honmagolf.co.jp/en/item/club/iron_tw_717p.html

And here's another one, The TW717 Forged Iron by Honma. This is probably the iron that will appeal to most forum members and your probably wondering what other clubs it's similar to so lets cut to the chase and figure it out. In a nutshell as far as visuals go, think AF302 with a thinner sole, thinner top line and less offset. Hope that helps, so how does it feel? That's probably my favorite part. So we all know Honma makes some sweet feeling castings now how about their forgings? simply perfect at impact! It's a dense buttery feel that has just the right amount of firm to it. think a touch softer than the sweet spot of Yamaha MB's but over a larger area of the face OR you can think slightly more firm than the ONOFF Forged of 2013. We all sense differently so your experience I'm guessing will be somewhere in between mine. Trust me when I say you will be impressed when the ball compresses and releases off the face. It's that good at impact. Forgiveness, TSG has been testing these putting them through their paces and really think Honma has hit a home run here. Not as forgiving as the on off forged or Yamaha RMX CB but not very far off either. It's not compact nor is it mid sized. Again, smaller than the AF302 in all the right areas. So why hasn't TSG really highlighted Honma this extensively? Why the skimpy coverage? well of course the products and design need to make sense but equally important is our business arrangement the direction of the brand, and taking into account the landscape of the industry. It's not only about margins, a big weight is also placed on how they operate, and where the brand is headed in the future. TW7171V is the Cavity back and tomorrow I will highlight the TW717M which is the muscle back so stay tuned. Here are some facts on this CB: - Made in Japan of Carbon Steel at Sakata - The cavity wall (behind the face) has been thickend for improved feel and lower trajectory - It's a half mirror finish in addition to what Honma calls double layer painting - mass behind impact zone compliments yet doesn't lower the CG drastically - muscle mass area is at an optimal size and variable between each iron creating progressive CG location - Long irons have a lower CG than short irons - slightly fuller sole for the more aggressive player Hope you enjoy the pics!

Ah those are sold, gotta update that! But from OnOff forged to the Yammy MB IMO that's drastic.

Thank you! I appreciate that It wasn't always this way but after 13 years of it naturally one will improve. Notice how different angles the finish appears differently, it's a beautiful no doubt. I will be getting the other finish in for pictures in a couple of weeks. It looks to be different than the usual nickel satin finish we normally see on putters.

Thank you, I received your PM and responded. I wouldn't say either forging is better than the other, just different. Not many have tried the CB358 because it is literally just released. Singapore won't be getting any sets as Japan won't even have it's fill on these.

For those of you who haven't heard we are highlighting Honma this week @TSG! Today the new PP-101 & PP-102 putters and they are works of art. Each available in two different finishes, bright nickel platinum & dark nickel black dye. It's body is CNC milled of forged carbon steel, it features two tungsten weights on the sole at each end, the face insert is milled of SUS304 and you have your choice of a black or red emblem inside the cavity and on the face. As far as manufacturing goes this putter has some nice small touches, notice the gold ring where the shaft meets the hosel, or the B-logo sight dot, it's emblems. The word I would use is polished, it's simply well designed, solid performing and just feels sublime at impact. Honma could have saved money and excluded these features yet still produce a very nice product, but these guys aren't playing games, no corners cut here. It's gripped with Honma's version of Golf Prides "tour classic putter grip" made of rubber and both the PP101 & PP102 are only available in 34" with a retail price just shy of $600 usd. Expensive yes but considering what you get and the crafting involved in making a piece like this we think it's well worth the money. I don't have pictures of the nickel platinum finish yet those are on the way, for me this dark dye finish hits the mark and is just stunning in person. Now available in the TSG ProShop

Welcome to TSG, What year Onoff forged are you looking at? The 2014 CB358 is the most compact version released to date with less offset than the AF302 and smaller head size. Previous versions of the Onoff forged are a little bigger than the AF302, they have a little more offset and are more forgiving yet still provide excellent feedback & feel. The AF302 is a classic, It's a bit dated so expect it's replacement in a year or so. It's a Kenji Kobayashi design, which is why it shares the same head as the S-Yard GT-S Forged iron. excellent iron all around but imo over priced. Do keep in mind that they are both made of the same material S20C and at the same factory, Endo. The previous versions of the onoff forged feature internal weighting in the head for extra added forgiveness. I don't believe the new one has that. None of this really matters much unless you tell us about what your looking for in an iron. If you don't it's hard to help as people will just tell you what they like and as we all know no two swings are the same.

I wanted to highlight the players clubs that Honma has to offer. Although I have not hit it yet, not sure I will as it could be more than I can handle which is something I never expected to say about anything Honma, the TW717 is for the athlete & better player. Compared to say the Crazy 435 it seems noticeably smaller when looking down at it based on design not being 5cc's less. Basically it's a club designed for those who want to maneuver the ball and are looking for a strong mid trajectory. Shaft options, of course we can have any shaft installed but what Honma offers is worth considering. For the average player the new ARMRQ 8 Mid Kick 66 grams in stiff 8 weave Japanese carbon made in house. If you need more than that try the Vizard TA65 or TA75 which is also mid kick just a bit heavier and more stout. It's butt stiff to give the impression that the tip is softer than actual. And finally the Vizard TZ65 & TZ75 these are the stronger players high kick 67g - 75g shafts. The TZ is butt soft and tip stiff designed to prevent the left side. Here's the skinny on the TW717 430: - Matte Black Finish - Designed for workability - High back side to promote a level impact plane - Front of crown is thicker than back for a stronger more piercing trajectory - Slightly oval face helping the club stay open at impact - variable face thickness to increase rebound - 5 piece structure - crown = 3AL 2.5V Ti - sole = G4 Ti - hosel = pure Ti - weight = 13g neutrally positioned tungsten - face = 6A-4V Ti

I agree, Thai & Chinese love Honma but it's not the same Honma most TSG'ers would be interested in, I can assume most folks here would like the Tour World models or the new Beres S03 driver. It's also popular in parts of europe, In northern Italy BERES was quite common to see at the better courses used by better players. This week we will be highlighting Honma and getting people reacquainted to the fact that it's evolved.

From what I know Yes and the most impressive part is that Sakata does things most factories outsource like tooling, finishing, paint, weaving the carbon etc.. all done in house. It's the biggest factory I've seen in Japan, even larger than Endo HQ in Niigata. That said it's always a possibility they use other manufactures in Asia. It's all golf focused technology, many large factories serve a dual purpose not golf focused. One example is in finishing, there are some out of industry finishers that do a really fantastic job plating golf clubs but when a golf specific plating is applied it actually feels better at impact and has a more consistent weight. This is not only Sakata related, many makers in Himeji notice this as well. Sakata just hasn't received much acclaim because they are secretive, they only produce their own products and haven't had the marketing push to expose what they are capable of. I basically wrote Honma off for the past many years and would have continued to do so until seeing everything they can do. The website in the first post "50 reasons" sums it up pretty well.

Ohh Honma, virtually non existent in our forums yet one of our top selling brands in the proshop. What is up with that? Is it just not cool because of it's history of making game improvement expensive and sometimes gaudy designs? I spent a couple of months in Asia recently visiting nearly a dozen factories and the thing that stood out most was mass production vs hand made and then everything in between. In the golf industry hand made is pretty much exclusive to Japan, yes there are the occasional makers in the U.S & UK but it's few and far between. While in Taiwan & China it's less about the labor of love or crafting spirit and more about fulfilling orders in mass without going overtime. I don't know how to feel about mass produced, it's often very consistent especially when we are talking about Endo type tolerances but seeing a factory like Sakata Studio which by the way is no studio it's a massive factory where nearly everything is done by hand and that is such a beautiful thing, especially when most of the other big factories are starting to look alike and feature identical machinery. Hand crafting takes years of work, a higher purpose than just a job, and a sense of pride. It's what we love about many of the boutique brands we feature here at TSG. The process of how the big OEM's produce clubs is the polar opposite of how hand made clubs are produced. Big OEM's pay design firms for new tech ideas or "gimmicks" that are put into CAD and mass produced, many of the in house golf club designers have been let go in the last decade as big box OEMs outsource to actual design firms. This is not the case for hand made clubs, it's usually the owner, son, family, and fans that influence the direction of design. It's the passion of the maker. I could go on for days talking about this, I'll just shut my mouth and let this website make the point... Click the Image to visit "50 Reasons"

The Buchi is not as forgiving, the TW-U reminds me of a much improved version of the ol TM Japan DI's. Buchi is for someone who can hit a 3 iron well enough. Least forgiving compared to the bunch tested but best feeling, probably most workable. Buchi is not hollow inside meaning it has to remain small to make weight.

Yes it is!

Honma Golf has had gigantic success in decades past catering to the slower swinging wealthy segment of golfer, yet that very same success acts as a double edged sword as now there is a preconceived notion that Honma only produces blingy golden clubs for older ladies & gentlemen.. and that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm going to highlight one of their recent products that I just had to have the 2013 TW-U driving iron. I'm a driving iron junkie, lots of options have recently caught my eye but the #1 concern was always forgiveness & accuracy, so why not use a hybrid wood? Because of accuracy, I rarely ever go OB with a driving iron while with a hybrid I can from time to time. In a nutshell it's my belief that Driving irons are safer and more accurate with a tighter dispersion IF you excel in iron play over wood play. At the same time If you don't get the ball up easily, and have a slower swing speed I suggest considering hybrid woods. Over the past 3 months I tested Epon, Royal Collection, and SYB driving irons and of those the Royal Collection won big in all categories, then just a few weeks ago my Honma TW-U arrived and knocked the RC out cold, the TW-U gets up quick, it's long and very easy to hit especially if you opt for the vizard UT850 graphite shaft, it's simply accommodating all around and not only for me but for the TSG test crew which includes some really excellent ball strikers. I think this is the only CAST club in my bag, that's right it's cast by Honma of MS225 Steel and if I didn't know what I was hitting I would have said it's a damn good feeling forged club, I asked everyone who hit it how it feels and everyone came back expecting it was forged of soft carbon. Keep in mind Honma has perfected the art of casting now for a very long time and this club is changing my tune on how good castings can actually feel, that said most castings don't feel this good. The sole is wide but nicely rounded enough to have a predictable interaction with the turf, It's obviously designed to appeal to the better player as there is really no excessive offset or bulging anywhere on this head. Like all Honma golf equipment, clubs are hand-built to order in a single location – Honma’s Sakata studio, in northern Japan, where over 100 craftsmen work on every single club the company produces. Each club head is precisely finished, measured and balanced by hand this is a rarity now days as brands are doing all they can to reduce costs and manufacturing in China, Taiwan, and Thailand. For those of you who find the Honma line up a bit confusing, Tour World is for the professional and advanced player while the BERES line up spans from average to high handicapper. The Honma TW-U is designed for the better player as it's a part of the Tour World series. If you decide to go with steel NSPro has got you covered, but if your considering graphite like I did I suggest going with the Vizard UT950, I went with the UT850 and probably would go a little heavier if I could do it all over again. The shaft name vizard has a funny origin, VICTORY x WIZARD = VIZARD! The Honma Tour World TW-U is available in 18,21,24* lofts. It features a half cavity on the exterior but within it is hollow for increased forgiveness, It's size maintains workability while still easily flying straight. It is a great club for those who like utility clubs to play similar to their irons while having that extra room for error providing a strong medium trajectory with no ballooning.

Thanks for the write up, looking forward to your long term review. For me these are still in rotation, Very consistent and reliable set that I consider well rounded in terms of forgiveness, setup, feel, and results. Your praise of graphite in them makes me want to experiment.

Found out today they don't offer matte black for the crown, will go with metallic black. The great news was that they do offer black IP sole & face. So it looks like it's Vader's helmet again.

More Art

Sometime in May

Yup, GTD - George Takei Designs He is the designer not owner. The product looks promising.

Yes that's no problem. We can arrange copper that wears, copper that doesn't wear, CNC milled grooves instead of stamped, micro milling on the entire face, custom logo placement, you can add a kanji, and of course custom grind, offset, etc..

Custom wedges just added to the pro shop. CBC iron is going in soon, you can also drop one of us a PM if you need it sooner.

Drop Gocchin an email or PM he can get you sorted with a custom build at a good price.

These were done at the same finishing factory Tabuchi-san uses for most of his plating in Ichikawa. There are also some nickel under - copper over finishes that act as a plating and don't wear or rust.

Click HD

I know Fujikura is working on a prototype that is 25 grams which i think will be the lightest. I would also say look at the Honma ARMRQ in 40 & 45 grams attached to the BERES E-01 or 480cc non conforming amazing spec. For slower swingers seeking uber light and easy specs I've found the most success suggesting Honma. The 480cc high cor has me curious, imagine if it was available in 9.5, 199g, square face neutral bias it might be quite the toy.