Cameron

That looks really solid. No gimmicks. Just club. I like that. And it can be adjusted for lie! And face angle! Wow!

I agree with you Chris, as someone else noted, they make the head in the US (albiet for ONLY the Asian market ). That so bums me out! But, thank goodness we have you to bring us the best forged golf clubs in the world! Woo Hoo! I'll PM you about what to order. I do want to do something sooner rather than later. What a wonderful resource you have created!

Was at King Par in Flushing, MI yesterday and hit balls for several hours. My hands began to get tender and I was getting fatigued... when I picked up a Rapture 6 iron with a regular graphite shaft (couldn't find a stiff graphite). No more twisting club on toe hits! No more nasty vibrations on thin hits! Very comfortable and easy to swing. I felt like I could go on and on. My concern is that the ball went very high. Perhaps too high. And I'm hoping that a stiff shaft would bring that down some. But, just looking at the club, it is obviously designed to get it up in a hurry. I think that the J-spec Raptures, with their slightly stronger lofts, will keep the ball down. Maybe the reduced offset will help with that, too. Now I'm leaning to the J-Spec Raptures... or the Mizuno JPX E500... I really liked that tungsten weight WAY out on the toe of the Rapture. It clearly keep the club stable on toe hits. It was impressive. Does anyone know if the heads are the same weight as the US version? Neither the Japan nor the US site list the weights of the heads. I presume Chris can order my preferred swing weight, so it probably doesn't matter...

At this point in the game, so to speak, I'd go for the most forgiveness, which is the Type X, as I understand it. Plenty of time to improve and decide on a "players" club. Don't make the game harder than it is! And don't let folks mess with your mind telling you about "working" the ball. Fooey! Hit the dang thing straight. You need a handicap near zero to "work" the ball in a manner that improves your score! Cameron

Wow. Excellent review so far! Thanks so much! What kind of surface are you playing from? Soft bent grass? What kind of divot do you usually take? That is, do you take a deep divot in front of the ball, shallow in front of the ball, behind the ball,,, Can you give us some pictures of the leading edges? All of this, as you know, contributes to the "feel" of a particular club. Great review!! Thanks!

Ah, excellent info! So I compared the Japan and US sites. Without trying to replicate the specifications charts, for the J spec, the lofts go from 1/2* strong in the 3 iron, to 1.5* strong in the gap wedge (which is called either the AW or UW depending on country). Oddly, the J Sand wedge is two degrees weaker than the US (56* verses 54*). Interestingly, for the J, the bounce is the same 3-8, but then decreases a degree for the 9-gap, then it decreases 2* in the Sand. And really oddly, for the lie, the US is more upright by .02 inches in the 3-4, goes to .05" upright in the 5, the 6 is the same, the US 7 is .02" weaker, the 8 is the same, the 9 is weaker by .05", the Pitch and Gap are weaker by .02", and the sand is the same. So it looks like this: The US compared to J 3, + .02" 4, + .02" 5, + .05" 6, = 7. - .02" 8, = 9, - .05" P, -.02" Gap, -.02" S, = The lengths are the same. Now, apart from Ping varying the lie by all of two or five hundredths of an inch, an amount that I suspect is much smaller than the manufacturing tolerance and/or measuring capabilities, why on earth would lie move from upright, to even, to flat, to even, back to flat, then back to even? Could it be that Ping is measuring the varying "droop" of each head with the standard shaft at some presumably typical swing speed? What else could it be?

Yes, I understand they can reduce offset on any iron but the Rapture. For that club, they obviously made a reduced offset version... though they only sell it in Japan! By the way, I was quoted something like $65 per club to reduce offset Chris, I hadn't noticed loft differences... as that does not concern me greatly. But the offset measurements from the J version to the USA version is pretty significant, as you noted.

That would be fantastic! If possible, include some standard US club that we can use as a reference. Anything like the Callaway X-forged, X-20 tour, Taylormade R7-TP, Titleist 690, 695, Mizuno MP-60, etc. Can't wait to see!

Now, how cool is that?

Really? Oh my. If anyone can post a picture of the Yururi with the MR-23 CB U.S. Spec... I'd be forever indebted.

Chris, Yes, exactly. Ping told me they even make it in Japan, which if find dubious. Anyhow, they will NOT sell a set to a US account, at least for me. Cameron

Has anyone looked at the J-Spec Ping Rapture? I see that it has the reduced offset of the i5 set. It would seem to be an interesting club as the head is not huge like the G5. What do you guys think?

What a timely thread for me! I'm really itching to pull the trigger on a set of more forgiving CBs than my wonderful MR-23 CBs. Of the sets listed, my heart goes also to the Yururi for the looks, but I suspect they are about the same size as my MR-23s, so I wouldn't be moving up substantially in forgiveness, or so I think. Tell me I'm wrong! So, if we include the JPX and PRGR, I'd have to lean toward the JPX, unless they are just too big compared to, say, the Tourstage. I'd really like to see the JPX compared to a club I know. The Tourstage set is tied with the PRGR for my second choice, and it would rival the JPX and possibly edge out the PRGR if that is a bit of a undercut channel... I can't quite tell from the pictures. Have any of you guys noticed the pic of the PRGR cut in half? I'll try to link the picture. It's here: PRGR cut in half There is a lot more going on in that club than meets the eye. It is VERY interesting!

Chris, can you explain? It appears to me that the Mizuno would be a bit more forgiving on toe hits, which is a common miss for me. I agree that both of these look really sweet. I love options. It just takes a little effort to work through them to find what is likely to be the best for my game and the location at which I play. Is there another club that I might want to add to the equation?

Very cool. I'm interested. Specs? Price?

Chris, thanks! Very cool to see them together. AND you take excellent pictures! Really excellent. I think I like the Mizuno in all areas but the heel to toe grind. I see more perimeter weighting on the JPX, including out high on the toe, as well as a deeper cut cavity. I'd guess the MOI toe to heel would be quite a bit higher on the Mizuno. Do you agree? On the other hand, I think I like the sole's more rounded profile on the PRGR. Not sure what the difference would be to my game... I'm trying to develop a more decending blow and I play on pretty lush grass. I really like all the technology built into these forged clubs. Can we get our shafts of choice?

Hmm... interesting. Any chance of getting a couple of pictures with the irons side by side? Is the IS3 toe plate thingy a badge or a thicker part of the back of the iron. It looks like it might be either just a badge or additional meat up high in the toe. Also, is the TPU a'la Ping's custom weight port that can take heavier or lighter weights to aid in dialing them in? I assume we could get something like Project X shafts in these and the Mizunos? BTW, I had some guys from a big golf store here in Michigan hit my MR-23 CBs yesterday. They couldn't believe how soft/good they felt compared to ANYTHING in their store.

I like the cavity design. Chris, how does the size compare with the JPX E500 forged? I don't see any tungsten weights... in what way do you think they are better than the Mizunos?

Hmm... a seam/joint is exactly what I'm concerned about... I hadn't considered that a seam located on the bottom of the iron might be less prone to separate than one located elsewhere on the club. That's a good point. No, Chris hasn't replied yet, but I'm sure he will. I'm most looking forward to his opinion. Thanks!

This is the usual question with a twist... or a bend... I'm interested in the most forgiving players CB that can be bent upright 4* from a typical lie of 60.5* for a 37.75 inch five iron. I really like the look of the Mizuno JPX E500, the On Off and the On Off Plus, the XXIO forged, the Tourstage ViQ, and the Ping Rapture-Japan spec. I'm an old Ping Zing user and I loved having an iron with extreme toe weighting... just couldn't deal with the offset... I assume that I could get Chris to order a set of Ping Rapture-J irons in silver dot, so bending those isn't a problem, but I don't know about any of the others. Last thing I want is to pop out a face or tungsten weight while getting the irons bent up to my lie. Any comments or suggestions? Pro and con of the various irons listed? Any favorites that I have missed? Thanks very much. Cameron Reddy

I'm still playing the MR-23 CBs. They feel just incredible. I'm reluctant to go to a hybrid for the 4 iron--mostly because I love the feel of flushing the buttery 4 iron. That said, I'm thinking of getting a larger head for early season rounds when my swing is still in the tank. My guess is the Mizuno JPX E500 or perhaps the MX27, or possibly the Taylor Made forged TPs, would fill the bill.

Hi, long time no see. I was injured the last two summers and didn't get into golf at all. Had corrective surgery and I'm back at it! Wow, has this site grown! Very cool! Anyhow, my beloved (up 3-4*) MR-23 CBs may be a touch difficult to hit (small blades!) given my long layoff and needed swing repair. So, I'm wondering what you guys think about a club I might go to while I get my swing back. At the moment, I can't see selling either of my two sets of MR-23s (one set with Aldila Prototype 125-X graphite, the other with PX 6.0) ... The feel is just SO good when I make a good swing Suggestions?

OK, for those of you interested... I just got a set of NS PRO 950s in stiff delivered, brand new, still in the plastic. They are all dead-on-balls-accurate to 97 grams. Every one of them (35 inches to 39). Here is the interesting thing... Unlike the 1050s which all bear the same manufacturing date, these were made on all different dates in 2002. However, they were obviously sorted for weight. Another interesting thing. The 1050s are not 7 or so grams heavier than the 950s as they are supposed to be (except for the 3 iron shaft which is 104). They are an average of about 18 grams per shaft heavier! What's up with that?

Pull outs.

Well, after writing Nippon and telling them the following shaft weights with the respective irons: 3, 105 grams (note the huge gap between the 3 and 4) 4. 112 5, 113 6, 113 7, 115 8, 115 9, 115 p, 116 The answer is interesting... Cameron, ... [W]ho knows what the original purchaser had in mind. When it comes to this type of thing we have hundreds of possibilities of what the original user was requesting. We do so many specialty installations around the world that this might have been exactly what they intended. It is NOT uncommon for a golfer to seek out this exact ascending weight scheme. We have several players on the Champion's Tour and LPGA Tour who purposely have us intall a lighter shaft in their 3 iron or sometimes in a hybrid type club. The intent is to generate a bit more club speed and a bit more trajectory with a lighter shaft in a club that is typically more difficult to hit. This is not the first set that someone has written about or even requested that was built in this manner. It is not easy to have a set built this way, but some golfers have very specific desires. If you look back at the weights you sent, note the precise weight ascension. This is too consistent to be a mistake. My best guess is that the original user had these shafts installed to their specific specs. If you prefer to send the shafts into our office, we will be glad to inspect them, but if the weights are as you write, my conclusion will most likely be as above. We don't know exactly what the original user/fitter intended, but this is a common scenario. With thousands of installations possibilties, this seems most likely. As always, my best recommendation is to seek out a competent equipment professional in your area who has had proven success, and work with them in finding the the optimal shaft installation for you game. Best of fortunes, Mark Mark J. Pekarek, Director - Americas Shaftology Centers- Authorized Nippon Shaft Installation Winfield, Illinois USA