gjones77

l believe there should be limits, if thigns keep up, at this rate they'll have to put the tee boxes in the parking lot. None the less, Tiger and Nicklaus back up the idea of limiting the technology, they've basically taken all the skill out of golf with the distance you can drive things nowadays. You're a 9 irons or PW away after a drive on a par 4...

I am American and,... Quality is better in Japan hands down. If you cant tell, wow :surprize: Manufacturing: Many Military grade Materials and non compliant EPA regulated Chemicals are illegal in the United States. U.S plating companies cant provide as "quality" finishes like Satin, Chrome etc. The Chemicals are said to cause cancer. The best forged golf head is found in Japan. please if you could just show me of some better U.S forged heads....please. Japanese forged steel is the best in the world, its a process they have been doing hundreds of years. Craftsmanship: They Apprentice for years in their trade, they work longer hours than we do and very meticulously with so much pride. This trickles into every industry, electronics, cars and parts, Innovation etc.. Hand grinding is a respected trade where as the U.S OEMS out source to other parts of Asia where they use pitted steel and the non golfing, little experience, lower paid hand grinding staff that has an output of about 4000 sets a month compared to Japans very limited output. Americans don't even build the OEMS equipment its almost all made in China, Thailand, etc so how can we really compare? Technology: Sometimes it takes innovation 4 years to get the U.S, not because its junk but because the American customer is more bargain oriented. you can do so much more with 500.00 production cost vs 200.00. More internal weighting designs, more technical options to choose from. Japanese R&D is intense and they are just a high tech sorta people. If you can give us some examples of American made clubs or foundries I could better help you compare and understand why the Quality of Material, Craftsmanship, QC, and finish is better made in Japan. BTW China and Taiwan make the best drivers IMO. Anyway guys, I get to hit both U.S clubs and Japanese, Honestly no BS this stuff is better all around, thats why I fell in love with it and that is why I made this place. I too wish it was much cheaper but my prices are not too far off what the U.S Oem Chinese made clubs are going for in the recent. Its not the Arrow, I know, but you do get what you pay for....the best. :nos**t: Chris, the Japanese craftsman ship is no better than American, if you put both side to side, they would be equals. Like I said, the only reason that things are done in Japan and China is cost, pure and simple. No offense, but in this debate you're not really an unbiased voice, since you're site sells primarily Japanese made equipment. None the less, it's all a matter of opinion. And if you want an example, up until recently Ping's forging was all done here in the US, and for years their equipment was the defacto standard. They're since moved operations to China for cost reasons. And as for craftman ship, all I have to say is Scotty Cameron, Bob bettinardi, and David Mills. If cost wasn't a factor, the forgings would be done here, and the quality would be equal to the Japanese. It all comes down to cost, and you're right, American's are more cost concious, we always have been, if we weren't then this country would be in the same poor financial shape as many other countries, we're not going to pay for technology for technology's sake. In the end, if it wasn't for the Scottish we wouldn't be talking about golf. In the end Chris, it was American invention and designs the allowed the Japanese to improve on the initial design. And just because it's released in Japan first does not mean it's made there. All the initial design and engineering came out of either Carlsbad, CA, (TM, Callaway) Acushnet, MA (Titliest) Chicopee, MA (Ben Hogan) etc... So, I'll stick with American gear, and you can go with Japanese, it's all perference, just remember where it all started.

Well, to clear things up, the :-) is a smiley face, not my fault that's what it comes out to when you type it. And as for the invention, it's actually English. The French had threaten to cut off the middle finger of the British archers if they were caught during The Battle of Agincourt in 1415. So after the British won, they all gave the middle finger to the French to show they still had it. None the less, enough history But beyond that. You're wrong about the Precept being the first multi layer ball, because every single source around has given that distinction to Top Flite. It was released to the market in 1996, but they had it on the tour before that I'm sure. So I'll take the word of historians in the subject of golf over all else. Secondly, the invention of everything we spoke of outside of steel shafts (made in UK) was done by Americans in America. Now, have the Japanese improved on some of those things, yes, that's how things are, they progress forward. But in the end the original idea and creation was American. Now, if it wasn't for the original invention, there would be nothing to improve on. Now, I never said one was better than the other, what I'm mearly saying is that I'm so sick to death of people on here making it sound as if Japanese made equipment is better than everything else, it's not, that's just opinion. All the engineering on major golf clubs is done here in the US for most major OEMs (Titliest, Callaway, Taylor Made), how do I know, I'm a national accounts manager for a multi billion dollar recruiting company, I spend my days talking to engineers, many I've talked to have worked for these companies. As for why they're forged in Japan, it's all about cost, unions and various other taxes and costs that the government has put in place has made it not economically sound to produce the actual forgins here. They don't have those same issues in Japan, so because of cost, not quality, they're made there. Now, as for innovation, you're right, they don't pick up as quickly here in the US as in Japan, that's because of our society, we don't always jump on the first fad to come out, in Japan they do, so they use Japan as a test market to see how the public will react. Plus they're willing to pay more over there since in the old days golf equipment had to be imported, which brought high prices. So I'm sorry if I'm not going to drink the kool aide on this subject, I just don't believe Japanese made is any better than American made. And as for innovation, I'll even admit that Japan does produce better graphite shafts, but I will gladly throw the Royal Precision Project X against the NS Pro. And just because it's released in Japan first doesn't mean it's Japanese made. Alright, enough with this now, we can go back and forth all night, we can just agree to disagree. Do take care

Not an American company vs Japanese Company comment.... but it seems the Japanese "innovate/invent" ahead of the Americans. Multi-layer balls, low compression balls, Hi end graphite shafts, stable lightweight steel shafts were all introduced in the Japanese markets way ahead (years) of their American counterparts. The research and development is far more advanced in Japan in golf clubs. umm look who is suing who? http://www.pga.com/news/industry/acushnet030805.cfm So much for American craftmanship.... :wink: I posted that story awhile ago actually :wink: But, it was Spalding that created the multi-layer ball up their Top Flite brand. Top Flite made the first Multi-Layered ball back in 1996 with the Strata http://www.topflite.com/company/index.php#p1 "The company revolutionizes golf ball design again with the development of multi-layer golf ball technology. The Top-Flite® Strata® Tour is an instant success on the PGA Tour and is adopted by many professionals. The Strata Advance, a slightly longer version of the original, follows six months later." Sooooo...... :-)

Not an American company vs Japanese Company comment.... but it seems the Japanese "innovate/invent" ahead of the Americans. Multi-layer balls, low compression balls, Hi end graphite shafts, stable lightweight steel shafts were all introduced in the Japanese markets way ahead (years) of their American counterparts. The research and development is far more advanced in Japan in golf clubs. Top Flite made the first Multi-Layered ball back in 1996 with the Strata http://www.topflite.com/company/index.php#p1 "The company revolutionizes golf ball design again with the development of multi-layer golf ball technology. The Top-Flite® Strata® Tour is an instant success on the PGA Tour and is adopted by many professionals. The Strata Advance, a slightly longer version of the original, follows six months later." Frank Thomas worked as Chief Design Engineer for the Shakespeare Sporting Goods Company from 1966 to 1974, where he developed the first graphite shaft. http://www.franklygolf.com/Speak/Article4_16.asp Light weight steel shafts were actually and English invention (I corrected myself here, I initially said American, but Appollo had a contract with True Temper, so I was wrong initially) http://www.golf-components.com/apgolshaf.html So, nope, Japanese don't make all the innovation, American golf companies have, the Japanese in some cases improved on some designs, but not the initial innovation.

Granted, I'm sure it's a great ball, but Japanese designed? Who care... It's a golf ball, Titliest is still the leader in the US, and Bridgestone in Japan. Realistically, clubs made in Japan are no better or no worse than those made in America, or designed by Americans. Does Japan make out standing equipment, yes, but so do American companies. I guess I just don't like hearing everyone make it sound as if Japan is the end all be all for Golf companies. Sure, alot of companies forge their clubs over seas, but that's not because of quality, it's because of cost. If the cost of labor in both countries were equal, American companies would do all their forging here. American craftsmanship in my eyes is still #1

Thanks for the compliments guys, but I had to do just one more update since a few things changed

John Mayer - Room For Squares Gavin DeGraw - Charriot Maroon 5 - Songs About Jane Kenney Chesney - When the Sun Goes Down Kenney Chesney - No Shoes No Shirt No Problems Just in a laid back music kinda mood :-)

It's brand new, never used, bought it and just won a new G2 Driver from Ping, and since I can't return it anymore, might as well trade it off.:cool: 2004 Big Bertha Titanium, 360cc'c 9* loft, stiff flex stock RCH 65w shaft. As for what I want, make me an offer, I'm always pretty open as long as it's in new/almost new condition. PM me with any offers :smile2:

Just updated bag info, have a new 5 wood Taylor Made Fairway Rescue :love:

I'm pretty open as of brand, though I'm one who leans toward TM, Hogan, MacGregor... Just looking to keep the cost down if possible So if anyone has a good deal on one, let me know :love:

Just updated this with real pictures of my clubs :love:

Much appreciated :cool: I just picked up golf last year, so I'm still in the learning process, hence why I didn't spend the money on Vokey or Cleveland wedges, the Adams are good for some one like myself that isn't that great :macgregor: :mizuno: :tm:

Driver: Ping G2 10* Loft Aldila NV 65 Stiff Shaft Woods: Taylor Made V-Steel 3 wood, 15* Loft Stock Stiff TM MAS Shaft Taylor Made 20* Fairway Rescue Stock Stiff TM MAS Shaft Irons: MacGregor VFoil VIP 1025C Stock Reg True Temper Pro-Pel Lite Micro Step Shafts Utility: Ben Hogan Apex CFT Hybrid 2H Stock Stiff Hogan Apex Shaft Putter: Mizuno T.P. Mills Forged/Milled putter TP3 Wedges: Adams Golf Tom Watson Wedges Stock Adams True Temper Proformance Lite Wedge Shafts Take care :smile2: