tsg4tch

I think the suspicion is that someone who wanted to influence R7 Tour prices lower posted a fake, and very quick, buy/sell transaction for a price he thought would be well below the market. I doubt a tour R7 would only sell for $300.00 over the (anticipated)retail price of the TaylorMade R7 TP. Perhaps I'm wrong. :) It was pretty ingenious. :wink:

It would surprise the heck out of me if all those R360s were nearly 3° open-faced and the 580XDs are almost 2° open faced. The retail heads I have hit were closed-faced. Either that or I'm hooking open-faces and fading closed faces......don't answer that! :o;):)

Since all the yellow column numbers are 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, I'm assuming those are the stated(marked) lofts. The orange column must be the actual(measured) lofts, no? I'm going to assume positive numbers in the pink column are degrees closed: it's showing the R360 at 2.7° closed and I remember that club being a hook machine. Generally, the clubs with closed faces have actual(measured) lofts that measure higher than their stated(marked) lofts, and the clubs with open faces have measured lofts that are lower than the marked lofts. So if I'm reading this chart correctly, and I could be totally off here, it looks like open face = lower loft, closed face = higher loft? Am I off base here, Joe?

I did it and wouldn't recommend it. As Swunk says, it is much more cost effective to get individual lessons from your local PGA professional. Everything in the course is in Pelz's books. When I took the course, the "sand" shots we worked on weren't even from a bunker. They had these plastic boards you placed on the ground, dropped a handful of sand on it, placed the ball on the sand and Voila!...no need for a bunker. Amazingly, everyone became expert bunker players with the plastic board guiding their wedge. Geez. Here is a link: http://www.shotsavers.com/store/merchant.m...ategory_Code=SG You learn your putter is too long, they happen to sell a device that illustrates this. Hint: get an old CD, put it on the ground reflective side up, put a golf ball in the center hole. Address the ball with your putter and you can see where your eyes are in your reflection in the CD(over the ball, inside the line, outside). Loosen your grip and slide your hands down the grip until your eyes are where you want them. Note where you hands are on the grip and just above that is the "correct" length for your putter. You learn that you need many devices, training aids to get better...they happen to sell them and will give you a bulk discount. Pelz wedges?...got 'em to sell. Books?...selling those, too. Don't get me wrong, there is some useful information, but I think you can better learn it from your teaching pro while getting one-on-one help. Just my opinion.:)

That is very interesting...didn't know anyone did that. Thanks for the picture.

Joe, The TM tour van guy explained it this way. He said there was no consistently accurate method of measuring face angle, not even with the big$$$ they have to buy machines. He can generally eyeball an open/square/closed face but it's just an approximation. Here's how they do it: The new tour heads are virtually square-faced as they are "hand-picked" for loft within a tolerance. He picks a head and measures the loft(their loft measuring device was very cool). If the measured loft is equal +/- to the marked loft, the face is considered square. Now, to bend open the face angle they put the head in a little box-like device that has a mold of the head inside. They heat the hosel using what looked like some type of induction heating device and bend the head(breaking heads often). They know by feel/experience what the range is they are looking for. After bending, they re-measure the loft: the difference in loft degrees indicates how open the face is. He measured and eyeballed the marked 9.5°/static 10.4° head we put the 26.3 in and said it was close-faced, which is how it played. Here's how he makes Vijay's drivers: He hand picks a 10.5° to as close to 11° as possible and bends the face open 3.5°!!! He said he breaks/trashes heads regularly. Evidently, Vijay gets a kick out of watching him bend/build his drivers. Here's an explanation of face angle/effective loft that's simple enough for even me to understand: "If a driver has 10* loft and has a 1* closed face angle it will play like it has 11*. The reference in this case is what would the loft measure if the club face was rotated to a square position. If it is set in the gauge at 1* closed you would have to rotate the club face open to get it back to square. The relationship to face angle and loft is 1 to 1. 1* face angle equals 1* loft. In this case this club would measure 11* if the club face was in a square position. If a driver has 10* loft and has a 1* open face angle it will play like it has 9* loft. Again the reference is what would the loft measure if the club face was rotated to a square position. In this case you would have to close the club face 1* to get it back to square and in the square position the loft would measure 9*. --Jim Yachinich, Golfworks"

We're cool. :) I enjoy the back and forth. I see your point. Most of the guys I play with, while they like the "idea" of a tour club, know they are better off with the retail models. They need the closed face and they like the softer shaft profiles. The reason they tried Taylor Made is they liked my club, but they hit their own sticks better/longer/straighter. I think retail driver heads are pretty darn good, but the shafts they put in them are worthless, in my opinion. That's why we need Joe K. to "Fuji-ize" them. :wink:

I'm working on them for ya, Joe. :wink:

I didn't know people did that. Please PM me the names of whoever re-bores/bends open Taylor Made driver heads. I've got some business for them. Why??? Taylor Made sales have increased during the time this became common. It's working. uhhh, sales. I never even considered Taylor Made products since nearly all the local pros are Titleist staffers, but when I had a chance to try a tour club I bought a TM driver. I liked it. Now I buy other Taylor Made products. I have a group of 15 guys I regularly play golf with: we were all Titleist/Cobra/Callaway players. Every one of them tried my driver, three bought new drivers, one bought irons, and one filled his bag. A few of the others are on the verge. Now that kind of exposure can be measured in dollars for Taylor Made. Everyone I play with wants to try my driver. Taylor Made knows that "X" percent of people who try their products buy them, so it's just a numbers game. And the numbers, i.e. $$$, are getting bigger for Taylor Made/Adidas. All because Taylor Made turns a blind eye when some caddy sells a tour driver his pro no longer wants.

If Taylor Made did not want their tour clubs to make it into the market, they would clamp down like Titleist does. I think it is a marketing tool and a very good one. The tour van does have a plastic wrap they'll put on clubs. Do you mean "opened" by bending the face open or "opened" by rotating the club in your hands?

Nothing in my box, try the email address. Thanks.

PM sent on Cleveland wedge.

I had a set of Lehmans and compared them to my 300s(no serial #, "old" sole) as well. The "Box Toe" is just a visual preference and does not affect performance outside of the slight weight repositioned. Like the photo from address shows, I actually preferred the the squarer toe as it lined up more intuitively for me. I was surprised about that. But the biggest and most important difference was the leading/trailing edge grinds and the heel to toe grind. That's what affects the performance of the head. The Lehmans were a little meatier in areas, heavier(surprised), and were perfectly weight spaced. Didn't get a chance to shaft/hit them before the eBay set sold for $2,200, and I figured that would be the top of the market(and I loved my Zodias), so I sold 'em. My 300s without a serial # are sweet feeling sticks, but they do dig.

Just a suggestion, but I'd go to a PGA pro for lessons. Most use video analysis, too.

Hey Joe, Tell me about the 27.3 in your smoothie? How does it play? I'm thinking about putting one in a 13* smoothie to go with my 26.3 in the TP.

http://www.zodia.biz/

Project X shafts are getting an undeserved(in my opinion) reputation for being too stiff. The shafts are tip stiff, which gives me tighter dispersion. The stiff tip gives the feel of "too stiff" when mis**t. For me, they flex close to standard rifles. I put PX 5.5s in my Zodias and wish I had installed 6.0s. I think it is important to swingweight your irons in the D2-D4 for these shafts to shine.

These guys can do the work or recommend someone closer to you who can. You can also call one of the local private country clubs/golf clubs as they will usually do work for a fee: Angel, Stephen Heavenly Golf 2985 Langley Crescent Prince George, BC V2K 3J7 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (250) 612-2565 Email: [email protected] Beebe, Ross Chimo Golf 5929 Glendale Dr Sardis, BC V2R 3A5 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (604) 858-4747 Email: [email protected] Chambers, Bruce Kwozzi Golfworks, Inc. 4288 Dunbar St Vancouver, BC V6S 2E9 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (604) 737-3697 Email: [email protected] Website: www.kwozzigolf.com Haines, Rick Swing-Fitted Custom Golf Clubs,Inc. #99 - 3555 Westminster Hwy Richmond, BC V7C-5P6 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (604) 273-0402 Email: [email protected] Website: www.swingfitted.com Klein, Herb Gemini Golf Services 1504 21st Ave Vernon, BC V1T 1G9 Professional "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (250) 542-8419 Email: [email protected] Munro, Robert RM Golf 3184 Cardinal Drive Burnaby, BC V5A 2T6 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (604) 420-5859 Email: [email protected] Pascuzzo, Greg Archon Custom Golf Clubs 1504 7th Ave S Cranbrook, BC V1C 5V4 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (250) 426-1662 Pattison, Ken 233 Butt Rd., #326 West Bank, BC V4T 2L3 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (250) 707-0647 Email: [email protected] Simpson, John Golf Innovation Unit 47 8844 208th Street Langley, BC V1M 3X7 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (604) 539-9320 x 224 Email: [email protected] Stav, Terry Golf West 4059 Norwell Dr Nanaimo, BC V9T 1Y8 Professional "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (250) 758-1919 Email: [email protected] Williams, Tim Golfcraft Custom Clubs & Repairs 2817 Dysart Rd Victoria, BC V9A 2J7 Professional "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (250) 381-4904 Email: [email protected] Zipser, Henry Henry's Golfshop 47 Station St Duncan, BC V9L 1M2 Certified "Class A" Clubmaker Phone: (250) 748-3522 Email: [email protected]

Consult with Joe Kwok. He is the keeper of all golf club secrets. :wink:

What he said. :)

It all varies a little, but by my calculations you're -7.4SW + 10.8 SW= net +3.4 SW which gives you a D5.4@ 42" assuming the club measures D2. I'm not in the lie angle/SW change camp. You can add a heavier grip(+1SW for every +4grams grip weight) or shorten the shaft a little. Backweighting does affect performance of the club: http://www.balance-certified.com/ The club will feel different because of the lighter weight and the difference in the nature of graphite versus steel shafts. The "head feel" should be similar with the same swingweight.

SOLD!!!

Taylor Made Satin RAC CBs 3-P 9.5/10 condition. This set was sold to me by a guy who bought two sets of heads so he could compare steel and graphite shafts in them. First $750.00 takes them, no trades please . The 5-iron does not have a serial number , which I am told means these are Miura forged. The hosels only have "CB " on them. The 4-iron has a couple of tiny dings in the leading edge from shipping as show in the photos. The 3-iron is still in the plastic. Irons look like they were only hit a few times off mats. To see photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/hibbstheman

26.3 and 27.3 is completely the opposite of those 671 and 761. They are soft tip shaft, even installation is a pain in the a$$ if you only want to get the cpm right on the spot. Like i said if you get a perfect trajectory driver's loft, 761 and 671 is a much better shaft hands down. Thanks&Cheers Joe I wouldn't completely dismiss the 26.3 in the R510 TP head until you play a few rounds with it, Joe. The X-flex Tour Release 26.3 you installed in my TP does not play like it specs. It is tight and long, long. I'm pleasantly surprised at how good this shaft/head works. Doesn't feel like its' c.p.m. or its' waggle. Just a great shaft and you did an excellent job putting it together, thanks!

I doubt they'll be making retail heads with 1-1.5* open faces which is the reason I buy tour heads.