ClubHoUno

I dislike the small screen on it, but if you want a small sized unit, you have to accept a small screen, but it could have been in color though. I keep mine in my pocket during the round, this would never had been possible with the Skycaddie or the Sureshot GPS units - they are simply too big. I really like the electronic scorecard in it - I use it all the time. And if you use this and go to next hole in the electronic scorecard, the GPS will automatically change to next hole when you enter on to the next tee box I hope they make a Sonocaddie V.2 with color screen next year - I'll be all over that.

Good stuff I can see why they have golf green and chipping area, but why a tennis court - unless they just are very nice to the coworkers at the plant. Does Endo also produce tennis rackets and tennis gear

No I'm not kidding. I've always hated Titleist irons - and this is no exception. Also didn't like the thick top line either. BTW How do you like your Sonocaddie - I also got one and like it a great deal.

OK, couldn't see that from the pics. Could it be a totally custom made Mizuno set ?

Mp33 Custom Japan Satin ??

Holy crap, I just wet myself Not too crazy about all the inscription stuff on the irons and wedges from the iron set though.......but classy looking none the less

Yeahhhh...that's pathetic isn't it I have only had access to the US version of the Miura website - couldn't read the Japan site and Taiwanese site I was only able to find this muscle back Miuraism iron, and it looks axactly like an original Miura muscle back - what's the difference: Hey, also found this cavity back, could it be this one Chris is talking about: Must admit I far prefer the look of the US version Miura Cb-202:

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what the heck is Miuraism I really like the sound of that name though + ISM - destined to be a great performing iron set

Exciting stuff. Lot's of Titleist irons there - I've tried the 695.cb (not the MB version) and it felt a bit clicky, not soft at all. Almost like a cast stainless steel club. Not the same good feeling that you get from Mizuno, Miura and even Bridgestone - even though the Titleist 695 series should be forged by Endo. Could be, that the finish is made out of town, I guess Tried a friends Srixon Pro 100 - wow, that's a great muscle back. I think Rory Sabbatini plays with the same forgiving Nike irons as Katayama does. Just goes to show that even some of the pro's prefer a forgiving iron and still can shape the ball with these.

Thanks, I'll try and spell my way through it - I guess the address is: www.golfonline.co.jp - wish me luck

WOW Chris - that you even think of carrying this test out is HUGE and super fantastic The cost of the test gear alone will exceed $12K easily......it's a good thing a lot of guys will pay pretty high prices for test gear and demo gear. I'll edit the list of potential contenders......

Yeahhh...I agree - but I just tried to shorten the list a bit. Since I'm a blatant Miura lover and obviously biased towards Miura I tried to keep the test as neutral as possible, and tried to keep the number of contenders down to 10 iron models. But I agree, Yururi should also be there, and as mentioned, one or two US models like the Callaway X-Forged (which is in fact Endo forged) and maybe Miura Cb-202 (forged and finished in Himeji,Japan, at the small Miura plant), which could be one of the best players CB irons from Miura ever made. But I tried to make a pretty comprehensive list, and at the same time not exceed 10 candidates. To be honest, I didn't think Chris in his wildest dreams would think of actually carrying this test out in real life, but I certainly (again) was wrong....WOW :tsg_smiley_drool:

Sorry for my ignorance, but what's GDO

I know...I know....I'm allowed to dream and this would be MY dream test come through. I know this test will not only cost several $$$ (YEN's) but also be very very time consuming, but as I say, I'm a NAIVE dreamer

I'm a HUGE Miura fan, but Miura haven't come out with a JDM players CB club since CB-1006 from 2006, so I thought the ONOFF 247 Miura forged would cover it, because the design of the ONOFF 247 reminds me a whole lot of the CB-202 and CB-1006 - a clean looking classic forged split cavity back club forged by Miura.

I wonder if it would be possible to conduct such a dream test ? I know we had one test last year with - I think - Taylor Made R7 Forged, Srixon ZR-600, Epon Type J and if I remember correct Mizuno Mp-60 Custom Japan... I may be mixing two different TSG tests up....sorry if I do so.... A test with contenders like these would be a dream test come through: 1. Epon AF-301 2. Tourstage X-Blade CB 2008 3. Taylor Made Forged TP 2008 4. Fourteen TC1000 5. Srixon ZR-700 6. Gold's Factory CB 7. Mizuno Mp-57 Custom Japan 8. ONOFF Irons Plus 2007 9. PRGR iS3 Forged 500 BL 10. Royal Collection CV Blade 11. Miura Cb-1006 12. Yururi CNC Gekko 13. A worthy US model - could be either Callaway X-Forged/Miura Cb-202/Srixon I-701 Tour 14. A total outsider, sort of a placebo - yet still a players cast CB. Could be either Cobra Carbon CB/Taylor Made R7 Tp/Ping i10 I know this would be the most comprehensive and expensive test ever done on TSG, but WOW this would be a dream test come through for a lot of guys in here at TSG With pics showing offset, sole, cavity design, top line and face progression, this test could be used as a way of promoting and selling just the type of forged JDM players cavity back set, a potential buyer of JDM irons is looking for

Interesting post Bogeydog I think most of the new innovative design will be concentrated on the large game improvement market, where better and improved computer CAD design and bigger and larger R&D test centers will come up with better and more forgiving cavity designs in irons and even wedges and more MOI in drivers and eventually also in woods. Callaway is coming with its "Square_Way_Wood" next year, and more will follow. The hybrids will be even more forgiving within the Game Improvement market. So most of the new advanced high tech development will take place within the Game Improvement market, I think. With that said I think you are right in your assumption, that within the players market, the R&D will have trouble finding new designs that will improve upon the older designs, because it is pretty limited what you can do to improve on muscle back irons, blade wedges and small players cavity back irons. If you look at muscle back irons, Mizuno tried to use their "Cut Muscle" technology in their newest muscle back iron, Mp-67, but the Cut Muscle didn't really do much, because a muscle back is muscle back, and the target group for such an iron is low cappers and plus handicappers, who need to shape the ball and hit high and low shots and really do not that much forgiveness. The same thing applies for wedges. You have a small blade like club for pitch shots and chip shots and there really isn't that much you can do with the design of the club. Therefore the trend right now is to look at grooves, bounce and especially grind options, which makes a wedge far more versatile, but not that much more forgiving. The grooves are being looked at by the USGA and R&A, so I think we will probably see more and more manufacturers stopping the groove hype and maybe even go back to V shaped grooves, especially if R&A and USGA decide to illegalize sharp Box U grooves. I think the trend next year will be new grind on wedges. So a lot of us hard core golf club HO's have already been fascinated by what a grind can do to a Lobwedge and a Sandwedge in terms of flop shots and small petite chip shots from different lies in the rough. This will start to come into the retail market in the next 1-2 years, I think. Callaway and Taylor Made, Mizuno, Fourteen, Brdigestone, Tourstage, Epon and more already have a special grinds on their wedges and more will follow this trend. What may end this grind trend will be the fact that people will soon discover that making a retail wedge with only one standard retail grind will limit the number of people, that will fancy this particular retail grind. Grind is a very personal thing, and one grind may work for one person, while another person will hate that grind - so grinds will still be something that will be made for the tour players in the tour van and custom made in custom wedges for the avid low capper amateur golfers. However we do still do see some manufacturers trying to improve on the players cavity back clubs. The very basic small designed classic style forged cavity back club heads will be hard to improve on. You have the split cavity design (Bridgestone J33.cn, Miura Cb-202, Miura Cb-1006), you have the curved split cavity (Epon AF-301), you have the notch back design (Callaway X-Forged, Tourstage X-Blade CB 2008) and you have the Cut muscle (Mizuno). Mizuno has in the new Mp-57 model even tried to make an iron with both the split cavity and the cut muscle design. Only time will tell if the Mp-57 design works and really improves on the forgiveness without sacrificing feel and playability. There are only so much you do with a forged carbon steel iron in terms of design, but they get better and better at improving on the design in forged players cavity back heads - I'm sure Endo will be one the companies that first will be able to make highly advanced club head design within forged carbon steel clubs - so I still see room for possible improvements in this particular area. Cast cavity back clubs will continue to improve design wise - but again as you say, some on the new design might just be gimmicks to continue selling golf gear to the better players, that in reality need playability and feel rather than a whole lot of forgiveness in their irons. However the trend might be to release players iron sets from 5-PW and replace the 3-4 iron with hybrids. The tour players still use their 3 and 4 irons, but a growing number of pro players use an iron like hybrid as their 3 iron and a wood like hybrid/5 wood instead of the 2 iron. You also see more and more pro players play cavity back clubs and not muscle back clubs. This trend will spread to the juniors and amateur players. The driver head volume is maxed out at 4600cc, so I think the trend will continue to circle around different design shapes - but as you say, there are only so much that can be done to improve on MOI and forgiveness. I think we could see the shaft manufacturers go into cooperation with the club head designers to improve on the overall playability and forgiveness of the drivers. As I say, this is a very interesting subject....hope several others will chime in and participate in the debate

Nice reading, Chris As a vendor of JDM gear exclusively, you could easily have said that the JDM Black Gold shafts played better than the the US versions, but you didn't, which just goes to show, that you're an honest guy

Maybe Chris has

You're right Spoon. I gotta try these Epon irons out to know what everybody is talking about. I wonder how well they will hold up, knowing they are forged from soft double pressed S20 carbon steel. But what the heck, I only care about the looks for the first 2 weeks, after that I only care about the performance. Whenever you see a guy with some beat up old forged blades, you know NOT to go into big money games with him Use them at first, then abuse them

OK thank for the advice, I really appreciate it No matter what, I'll also buy either the Miura Cb-202 or the Srixon I701 Tour set and will make a comparison and test them up against each other, once the the new season starts in March/April next year. Only play on mats and in indoor golf simulators from now on - and won't abuse forged carbon steel irons and wedges on this surface. Therefore my trusty old cast Vokeys and my new cast TM R7 Tp's will be in my winter bag for this winter season. Won't test soft forged clubs on hard range mats in cold weather - just not a good combination at all.

Nice post Brian - way to go I must admit I at first had my doubts, because I can't test the Epon AF301 anywhere in Europe before I buy them for the Spring 2008 season. So I'm depending on what other guys say and feel about these irons. But now that I think about it twice, I will still give them a try and hope I can order a set of 5-PW AF-301 and 4 iron AF-501 for the upcoming Spring 2008 season. I must admit I like to look at a blade cavity back club with small offset and thin top line, like the Miura Cb-301/202/Mizuno Mp-60, but if the Epon's perform for me and they don't look fat and bulky like the Mizuo Mx-25, I will keep them for a while - maybe even for 2 seasons. I must thank everybody for posting their honest opinions about the Epon AF-301 set in this post - honesty and an open minded attitude is the way forward and what makes this forum great for avid golfers and golf club Ho's.

:atsg_smilie_roll: :atsg_smilie_roll:

WOW - great to hear that Miura gets some credit - me likey I agree that there are much more to an iron, than what type of forgings it is and where it is forged. To me this is what makes a great forged iron: 1. Quality of steel, most popular is 1020/S20c Carbon steel 2. One or two pieced forging 3. How many times the iron heads are struck/pressed and at what amount of weight 4. Type and quality of the finish used 5. Iron head design - bounce, grind, cavity, leading edge, offset, etc. 6. Groove type and quality of milling/punching 7. Type of shaft 8. Type of grip I think these 8 points all are very important factors to consider, when one has to evaluate how a certain type of forged set of irons will play and feel. As a Miura fan, I'm glad the Miura blade won your very own subjective test, when you consider the quality of the contenders

I resent that - our balls might be smaller back then, but they have since grown to be bigger than mosts Denmark and Holland have the tallest people in the world - and on average now play with the biggest balls and our long iron play is top of the world too