gocchin

Irons are not out until mid to late December... demos will not come to me for another few weeks. Just as I noted in the first post the new model is a tad more compact.

There are no models forthcoming for the next while... we can always suggest it for their new releases.

They should all have serials (as far as I know for the last year or so)... Ryoma tracks their serials quite closely.

Yes 100% fact, all Epon clubs are made at Endo. Endo OWNS Epon... it is their own brand. They have no reason to outsource its production to anyone else when they very well have the capability of making all their own products... They are a forging house and the world's most advanced so they would not ask anyone else to forge for them. This is the reason why all their clubs, fairway woods, and utilities included are of the highest grade carbon steel and Ti and all Forged. Every Epon head is marked as Forged By Endo.. woods and irons and wedges. I should note that Epon golf balls and accessories are indeed outsourced since they can't be forged. (^_^) Why they do not write Made in Japan is because, as I noted in my earlier post, they can very well sometimes forge the heads in Endo Thailand too depending on capacity and how busy they are volume wise... but we must realize something, whether it be Endo Japan or Endo Thailand, they are the same company, using the same types of machines, using the same designs and molds and same materials and same processes, and managed by the same people. Their location of production is just different, and the person operating the machine is different ie Thai in Thailand and Japanese in Japan. Both are Endo. Here is the ENDO factory in Niigata Japan... as you can see it is completely branded EPON even though it is Endo. This is the flagship factory and base for Epon and it is not that large just for show. (3 large manufacturing buildings plus a golf range) Another example of the mixed manufacturing is Callaway... their Legacy drivers which use VL Titanium (signature endo) are made in Endo Thailand - and surprise surprise I just checked... assembled there as well whereas custom built built Legacys have the heads sent back to Japan and assembled. (so it looks like some manufacturers are assembling elsewhere though I am sure trained to japanese standards) On the other hand, their Legacy fairway woods which are not forged are made in China. So it depends on the manufacturing needs for design and materials. Kamui Works produces all their clubs here in Japan BY HAND...Kamui Pro... I do not know but can find out. Smaller brands are hard to tell sometimes... as they tend to be very secretive. It can be difficult to track down exactly what they do without me actually going there and seeing the production... which I would love to do and did for Epon and Crazy. But in the end there is no denying many brands, for economic and business reasons need to outsource, but we also need to understand what "outsource" means. Its not like a brand says, well its time for the 2013 models, lets ask Company A in china to make them for us and Company A designs the head and makes it all on its own and ships it back to Japan to the brand. The outsourcing process includes many factors and steps and technically is the PLACE of production while the design, grade and types of materials, and overseeing of the production and quality control is still all pretty much Japanese and controlled by the brand. Many top Japanese managers from big brands spend years abroad training and overseeing these production lines in other countries. In the end it is still a Japanese brand, with a Japanese design and Japanese product - but occasionally made somewhere else. BMW and Mercedes are German brands but in many cases not made in Germany. I don't even think they out a "made in XXXXX" on their product pages. For golf brands it seems to certainly be a touchy subject which brands even have a hard time dealing with themselves.

Stew you know lefty clubs are few and far between here... At my local driving range, there are 100 spots/mats for hitting balls. 2 are aligned for lefty golfers the rest are all righty golfer aligned (autoload system). And truthfully two out of 100 may very well reflect the percentage of lefties in Japan... For many brands making lefty clubs sadly does not make economic sense for them... I can't even think of one lefty Japanese pro on the Japanese tour, men or ladies... That said, the entire XXIO line is available lefty... so for someone starting out XXIO is good.

Jay there is nothing wrong with that at all, to each his own choices and every consumer has their own set of rules for making purchases. But to be clear here though... Epon does NOT outsource any of their clubs. All Epon clubs are made at Endo period. Whether those other clubs are fakes? We can't tell without seeing them? Do they look good, yes they do, but they could be stolen, they could be being cleared out for some unforseen reason, we don't really know.

Without a doubt many brands look to outsource to keep costs down... this is a fact of doing business. But this is not to say they do not still oversee quality and maintain a level of standard acceptable to the brand. Apple products are made in China, Taylormade products are made in China, boatloads of brands from Japanese makers to top German makers have cars made in Mexico. Top Cameras brands like Nikon and Canon have lenses made in China that still sell for a premium. Everyone knows Endo has two forging locations, one in Niigata and a couple plants in Thailand... considering the number of clubs and the brands they produce clubs for, this was a must for them (plus they do forgings outside of the golf realm as well). However keep in mind, all of Endos designers, engineers, executives, and Managers including those who control and oversee all manufacturing processes are indeed Japanese and adhere to the standards as put forth by the Japanese brands. I've seen them throw heads out on the production line just because they have a small aesthetic issue. ie a little mark. While Endo is one of the most technologically advanced manufacturers, with changes in golf club designs and clubs getting more and more advanced, many brands who once produced their own clubs cannot always do so anymore without prices going through the roof ie through creating all new processes and techniques. An example of this is Mizuno. We all know they do some of the best forgings with the Grain Flow Forged MP irons but a few years back, with the JPX line, they began tweaking the designs to become more forgiving, to create more distance, and some of them featured embedded tungsten forged right into the heads. Mizuno did not have the capacity to do this and these products would not be economically feasible if Mizuno had to build all new machines, create all new processes so what did they do... they went to Endo and the JPX E500 Forged was done at Endo... Meanwhile the rest of the world is catching up... China is a country with over a billion people with powerful resources and the ability to create "cities" over night.. (I swear I saw on the news they replicated some European town inch for inch and also rebuilt a copy of Disneyland. While to say these were done overnight is of course an exaggeration, China does learn, does evolve and does improve and tries ways to make equivalent quality at lower costs (that is also not to say they don't make bad quality products but this is part of growth). So what I am trying to say is, in discussions with several JDM brands, a common theme among them is that Endo is costly. There is no doubt they make some of the best products but many Japanese brands had to assess other avenues of producing clubs as they are businesses after all. Many brands have flip flopped between China and Endo through experimentation and trial and error... PRGR is one. They used to use Endo for many of their forgings but then suddenly moved a lot of production to China, things perhaps did not go as well as they had hoped and many models ended up coming back to Endo over the last few years... Now PRGR like other brands like ONOFF, Royal Collection, Fourteen, all of which are obviously smaller, split a lot of their products between Japan (Endo) and China. And on Mizuno above doing the JPX at Endo, they don't anymore due to cost which moved some JPX models to China instead. Are some of these clubs made at Endo done in Thailand? Certainly. But all under the Endo roof and Japanese quality control. Endo has to spread out production otherwise there is no feasible way they could maintain that volume. The Vokey Forged is another example of being forged at Endo but in Thailand... that is a fantastic club, designed by Titleist, overseen by Endo and forged in Thailand then brought back to be assembled in Japan. There is another reason why the Japanese do their assembling in Japan... this is one process they won't skimp on as the attention to detail of clubs put together by hand is a standard many Japanese brands feel cannot be reached yet by Chinese manufacturers... so the brands definitely care and worry about these things. Fourteen even told us at the golf fair once, all assembly of all their clubs even for the US market are done in Japan ,even though some of the heads are made in China and could be assembled there for less than a quarter of the cost... they won't even assemble in the US.... the rep said no matter what they have to be assembled in Japan. That of course could change as technique and standards improve outside of Japan. 30-40 years ago, nobody wanted a car made in japan... how quickly things changed and Japan caught up and surpassed the rest of the world for not only cars, but electronics and technology and manufacturing... but the rest of the world is now catching up and in some cases surpassing Japan as Japan struggles with economic uncertainties and negatives. So does Endo forge some of their Epon clubs in Endo Thailand? Its a distinct possibility they do depending on the production load. Does it mean less quality vs forged in Niigata? Probably not, due to same materials, same processes, same machinery and same Japanese managers overseeing both production lines. Unfortunately this is a sensitive subject for many OEMs and brands as they know some consumers are still sensitive to "Where it is made"... interestingly though this seems to be more the case OUTSIDE of Japan and for the very hardcore enthusiast (of course!)... Taylormade is all made in China but that does not hurt their popularity at all here in Japan... I bet if I asked all my neighbors where their clubs were made, they would not have the slightest clue nor would it matter to most of them. And I am not saying that is the way it should be... for enthusiasts like me and you, we care about the littlest things... but I love my Nexus 7 tablet and its not made in Japan... I love my STi and it is made in Japan. I am currently playing TM Gloire irons but they are made in China though designed by and overseen by TM Japan... and I like them. So perhaps I have grown lax in recent years... or the rest of the world has advanced to a point where their quality is no longer second guessed. By the way who is this inpresX guy? He would be a welcome addition to the TSG Forum. (^_^)

Do you like motorcycles? (^_^)

Another customer also requested the same set... they currently only have 3 sets left. Thanks, T

The list is over 12 folks (have to count the exact number).... keep in mind not everyone is a forum member or posts actively on the forum. We are probably approaching our limit for sets of the tour model as typically one retailer cannot get this many.

I have my doubts about how that might play... personally don't like the looks of it.

I can't really comment on the Miura pricing since they are not Japanese models so I am not familiar with them and Hakusa is not a Japanese brand. The bottom line is you got what many may consider to be a too good to be true deal on the Epons... if they are legit then congratulations but 720 Euros for 3-PW shafted with PXi would be more than the cost of just the heads for an authorized dealer. Please understand I am not trying to criticize you in anyway... I just hate seeing people ripped off and I would prefer for people to be careful rather than sorry... As long as you look out for yourself and do your research. I guess the way to know for sure.... is this guy an authorized Epon dealer?

Thats what Yamaha says, smaller head, more control, same MOI as the cavity back. We are talking about the tour model here Shanon but the standard model has always been very forgiving and in my opinion as forgiving as the ONOFF Forged but with even more distance. For me its always been the V Forged vs the ONOFF Forged for the improving golfer when it comes to mainstream brands...

Brad, We can try ordering it as they have not started shipping yet.... its quite expensive though at 599.00 + 125.00 shipping.

Yamaha has also released 200 limited tour bags, same bags used by Fujita and Taniguchi, their top pros. White and Turqoise Blue (Fujita pro) Silver and Red (Taniguchi) I doubt there are many left since the Japanese cannot resist anything that says limited edition pro model... (^_^)

Pics of the serial will definitely help.

Kinda hard to tell 100% from the pics... so I reserve my judgement... the price I will tell you now as an official distributor (not just reseller) of Epon is impossible for that retailer to be making any money but in fact losing money (quite a bit as the heads would cost the dealer himself more than that) on that sale... but he could have his reasons ie unloading the set.

D, the non tour is not limited... can order anytime... for the whole season.

I was there when Carl was fit for those irons at the Crazy Factory.... he took one swing of the blade and you just saw the smile on his face... If you were to look at other blades, the Crazy (there are not many if any sets left), the Epon Personal and the Romaro Pro Forged all have very positive feedback. I would rank these three ahead of the Yonex. The personal are surprisingly forgiving and all 3 models feel very good and are quite close in size.

You must be a good player then (^_^). There are definitely those who benefit from the Thump over steel and many of those players are pros or scratch golfers. Definitely the Thump will still have good vibration absorption properties... when I said like steel I meant stiffness as in most cases (crazy iron shafts aside) graphite will play softer... did you ever have the CPM checked? I have seen technical date from the manufacturer but would love to see some real world numbers.

Dude... we all make mistakes.... only human afterall! (^ ^)

Slippin.... its called overworking! Can you imagine how many models of clubs and shafts and specs I store in my head?? (^_^) The Diamana is a tough shaft... heavy, stiff, like steel... they have not been that popular... maybe with very strong 115mph swingers only...

Probably more... but it would take me time to look them up...

Sorry sorry Roddio are PARALLEL I meant to say.... they are not taper... don't know why I said that.

Ryoma Premia and Vspec, XXIO Forged, Kamui KPX, Kamui TP07s, Kamui 456, Baldo 8C (8*), Srixon P420 (sold out) Plus a lot of 9* models from other brands.