goodfella Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 This is not what you might expect...just need some advice. I played the regular r7 9.5 all of last year with a Mitsubishi Rayon X shaft. After TM botched a repair job I am now holding a brand new ..same set up..stickers and plastic. I play a natural and reliable fade off the tee and can play a slight draw as well....would there be any advantage for me to get into the TP setup? Is the 757 that much better than Rayon shaft? If I play a fade already do I need a square face? I don't care about the weights. Please advise. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonniejt Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 As we have learned the TP and Tour versions have the SPF-700 Ti and the Retail have the 6-4 Ti, so my question is "how do ya hit this some beach"? There cannot be 10 yards delta from tour to retail set-up, other than personal preference! If it works, don't even change the grip, in other words, if it works, don't f**k with it!!! Are you looking for accuracy, distance, or overall looks? After you get past the "oh wow factor", you better have something that you can play with!!! Go to a professional club builder and find out what works best for you! Not what works for Tom Lehman, Steve Lowery, Allen Doyle, Hubert Green, Lee Harper, Elvis Larkin, Dr. Gil Morgan, Tom Kite...you get the picture!!! The shaft is the "key", but the right style head and shape play an important part too! Hope this helps, Lonnie Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfella Posted December 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 is this titanium hotter or just stronger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeceo Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 is this titanium hotter or just stronger? Well because it is stronger you can make the face thinner and therefore slightly hotter. BTW the price difference for an OEM is way less than $5 difference per club. I am not sure why anyone would cut corners unless they need that $2-3 for their $100 million advertisng and tour budget to get us mere mortals to play their stuff. Personally I'd prefer the better equipment and less hype. But hey we cant afford the hype so maybe I'm just jealous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfella Posted December 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Just doing some research I have found that there doesn't seem to be a difference in the titanium...Bladeceo....do you know this for sure? I spoke with TM and they confirmed that there was no difference...but who knows what they tell the truth on. Just trying to weigh my options to go or not to go to the TP. If I felt like the face was a little hotter or even stronger for that matter I think I would go for it. Please let me know. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeceo Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Just doing some research I have found that there doesn't seem to be a difference in the titanium...Bladeceo....do you know this for sure? I spoke with TM and they confirmed that there was no difference...but who knows what they tell the truth on. Just trying to weigh my options to go or not to go to the TP. If I felt like the face was a little hotter or even stronger for that matter I think I would go for it. Please let me know. Thanks[/quoteWell TM told me that the retail R7 is Beta and the TP is sp-700. I also know that it takes a lot of effort getting Sp-700 to stay under the COR limits and that the beta is easier to get under .830 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdChoi Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Is this titanium type difference also applicable in the 500 series? (read does the 510TP have a different titanium over the 6-4? or does a tour 510tp head have different titanium?) --sorry to threadjack, in the market for a 510tp head. :love: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeceo Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Is this titanium type difference also applicable in the 500 series? (read does the 510TP have a different titanium over the 6-4? or does a tour 510tp head have different titanium?) --sorry to threadjack, in the market for a 510tp head. Â :love: Dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboy Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 None of you clowns really know what you are talking about: SP-700 has bene in use in TM drivers since the 300 series or around 2000 SO..... i doubt since then they've been varying the Ti alloy in their club faces if they were punting it retail back in 2000. (http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1036) Bottom line is the SP-700 isn't hotter or COR-static... it's cheaper that's all becuase it's easier to work with: SP-700 is an NKK patented alloy that has superior forming characteristics compared with currently available titanium alloys. The alloy can be fabricated or formed to near-net shape at low temperatures, thus significantly reducing the cost of producing a titanium component. This superior formability, combined with excellent strength properties, makes the alloy attractive for applications ranging from golf club heads to critical airframe structures and rotating jet engine fan blades. (http://www.rti-intl.com/company/press/1998/jan27-1998.htm) So please don't all spew up your Koolaid at the same time. Like blade forgings, tour guys can't even tell the difference 'buttery soft' my ass! If you guys could actually post some proof of the rubbish you talk then the world would be a better place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haribo Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 I'm a big fan of the Fuji 757 ... but decided to try something else for a change. That's why I didn't even bother to go for a R7 TP (why spend all the money when you pull the shaft anyway) ... therefore I went straight for a retail R7 and put an Accra SC 75 in it. Because I did this at the end of the season I didn't get much practise with it. But I know already one thing. There's no significant difference I can tell about to an "510 Tour Mid" other than size. Yes, because they are completely different heads they feel slightly different. But I can honestly say it's completely marginal. Frankly, I'm more interested in a club anyway that helps me to reduce strokes on my score card. I'm not interested in a club that just strokes my ego. This entire debate is completely blown out of proportion in my opinion. haribo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfella Posted December 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Thanks Jboy...just got another postive confirmation from Taylormade that all r7's are sp-700 which certainly makes sense after reading your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeceo Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 I dont know if TM uses BEta or SP-700 in the retail r7(non tp) but the Director of Product Developement for the Metalwoods division of TM told me that it was beta in the r7 and Sp-700 in the R7 TP. Ill leave it at that. I do know that we pay more for Sp-700 and that it easier to make the face hotter with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboy Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Hi Bladeceo, it's highly unlikely that T.M select Ti grades for Touring Pros 'hotness' more like based solely on cost and workability... the SP-700 and 6-4 are pretty much the same (one point on the Rockwell scale), yield strength and so on are ball park, the Elastic Modulis for tension of 6-4 is actually higher (16.5 10*3 ksi vs 15.9 10*3 ksi for SP-700) so if you were going make a higher COR face you'd use 6-4 grade 5 instead...it's easier just to make the face thinner with a higher yield strength Ti grade. BTW: Titanium alloy microstructures are characterized by the various alloy additions and the temperatures at which they transition to the a, a+b or b states....beta isn;' just a type of alloy, many alloys can be made Beta and retain their beta structure at room temp....so basically some alloys are easier to transition to beta at lower temps... making them cheaper to work with and form. I'd love to post this at BSG but I'd get banned for doing so (even for using the words pixie dust could get you banned over there) Todd is online as saying that he's been to T.M's skunk works were they make clubs out of melted down stealth bombers and weapons grade Plutonium. This is proof that you have to take a pinch of salt with any information an equipment manufacturer gives you... they'll slip you some Koolaid because they know what sells and what you're dying to hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeder_757 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 None of you clowns really know what you are talking about:SP-700 has bene in use in TM drivers since the 300 series or around 2000 SO..... i doubt since then they've been varying the Ti alloy in their club faces if they were punting it retail back in 2000. (http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1036) Bottom line is the SP-700 isn't hotter or COR-static... it's cheaper that's all becuase it's easier to work with: SP-700 is an NKK patented alloy that has superior forming characteristics compared with currently available titanium alloys. The alloy can be fabricated or formed to near-net shape at low temperatures, thus significantly reducing the cost of producing a titanium component. This superior formability, combined with excellent strength properties, makes the alloy attractive for applications ranging from golf club heads to critical airframe structures and rotating jet engine fan blades. (http://www.rti-intl.com/company/press/1998/jan27-1998.htm) So please don't all spew up your Koolaid at the same time. Like blade forgings, tour guys can't even tell the difference 'buttery soft' my ass! If you guys could actually post some proof of the rubbish you talk then the world would be a better place! THIS MAN SOUNDS LIKE HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About time we had someone with the TRUTH!!!!!! :cool: :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeceo Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 I see no reason for TM to lie when it would be easier to claim they are the same. Here is the email: "Richard, The r7 TP does use a higher grade of Titanium compared to the Market r7. The TP uses SP700 compared to Ti6-4 for market. Both are very strong since they start with cold rolled sheet material, but the SP700 has finer grain structure which promotes better strength and ductility. The TP also has a completely square face angle compared to Market quad being slightly closed for the higher lofts. TP has 0.335" bore compared to 0.350" bore for Market. I hope this helps. Sincerely, Todd Beach Director of Product Development, Metalwoods" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxio Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 It just seems too funny that the TM guy is named "Todd" Beach. Are all Todd's into TM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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