TM RAC "T" Stamp "Tour" Miura Forgings

[RicWeb]

With all the controversy surrounding these clubs and the source I would like the opinions of you folks...I have my own ideas....Thanks for the light you shall shed!

[+TourSpecGolfer]

With all the controversy surrounding these clubs and the source I would like the opinions of you folks...I have my own ideas....Thanks for the light you shall shed!

What Controversy?

[RicWeb]

PM sent...thanks

[xtremecruiser]

T = Trash

or

T = Treasure

:whistle: :wink:

[RicWeb]

That is the prevailing question.........now all I need is the answer......always someone who will dog another for having access to equipment he might not have...usually this is the source of BS questions..I know for a fact that Mirua has made several models for TM in the past...this comes from Miura's own employee...they just won't say which heads.....

[juststeve]

Guys:

I bought a set of the T stamped onset heads from the Big Hitter. My impressions were:

1. Cosmetically great. Great finish and set up great behind the ball.

2. Quality control regarding head weights was not as good as I hoped. After I set them up with Tour Concept shafts I needed to fine tune a number of clubs with lead tape on the back. Not a big deal to me, I like lead tape fine.

3. Feel, really good. Soft yet solid on good impact, communicative off the sweet spot.

4. Playability is excellent. Easy to work left or right, high or low. A great match with the tour concept shafts. Not however forgiving for a cavity back. A players club.

5. Are they tour? Don't know don't care. They suit me due to the square toe and 0 offset, things I love.

They're still in my bag.

Steve

[xtremecruiser]

Guys:

I bought a set of the T stamped onset heads from the Big Hitter. My impressions were:

1. Cosmetically great. Great finish and set up great behind the ball.

2. Quality control regarding head weights was not as good as I hoped. After I set them up with Tour Concept shafts I needed to fine tune a number of clubs with lead tape on the back. Not a big deal to me, I like lead tape fine.

3. Feel, really good. Soft yet solid on good impact, communicative off the sweet spot.

4. Playability is excellent. Easy to work left or right, high or low. A great match with the tour concept shafts. Not however forgiving for a cavity back. A players club.

5. Are they tour? Don't know don't care. They suit me due to the square toe and 0 offset, things I love.

They're still in my bag.

Steve

Thats the issue, the weight's are all FU, thats why they have the Treasure Stamp "T"

[champx2]

Guys:

I bought a set of the T stamped onset heads from the Big Hitter. My impressions were:

1. Cosmetically great. Great finish and set up great behind the ball.

2. Quality control regarding head weights was not as good as I hoped. After I set them up with Tour Concept shafts I needed to fine tune a number of clubs with lead tape on the back. Not a big deal to me, I like lead tape fine.

3. Feel, really good. Soft yet solid on good impact, communicative off the sweet spot.

4. Playability is excellent. Easy to work left or right, high or low. A great match with the tour concept shafts. Not however forgiving for a cavity back. A players club.

5. Are they tour? Don't know don't care. They suit me due to the square toe and 0 offset, things I love.

They're still in my bag.

Steve

Thats the issue, the weight's are all FU, thats why they have the Treasure Stamp "T"

That does not make a lot of sense to me. I've had a number of true TM tour Miura sets. Really tight tolerances on the gram weights. Why would Miura be supplying TM with imperfect speced sets? I am confused.

[xtremecruiser]

Because no one will STEP and say it

The T is for Trash because of the weights and tolerances being all over the place.

Does not mean they are not real TM tours, its just that they are all FU

Everyone saw the emails from TM saying that there is no such thing as a "T" stamp on CBC before they disappeared like a Xfile

Guys:

I bought a set of the T stamped onset heads from the Big Hitter. My impressions were:

1. Cosmetically great. Great finish and set up great behind the ball.

2. Quality control regarding head weights was not as good as I hoped. After I set them up with Tour Concept shafts I needed to fine tune a number of clubs with lead tape on the back. Not a big deal to me, I like lead tape fine.

3. Feel, really good. Soft yet solid on good impact, communicative off the sweet spot.

4. Playability is excellent. Easy to work left or right, high or low. A great match with the tour concept shafts. Not however forgiving for a cavity back. A players club.

5. Are they tour? Don't know don't care. They suit me due to the square toe and 0 offset, things I love.

They're still in my bag.

Steve

Thats the issue, the weight's are all FU, thats why they have the Treasure Stamp "T"

That does not make a lot of sense to me. I've had a number of true TM tour Miura sets. Really tight tolerances on the gram weights. Why would Miura be supplying TM with imperfect speced sets? I am confused.

[jich505]

I can't believe this subject keep coming up!!! :mad:

Until there is something definite that comes from TM Golf, where someone can scan and post official documents, all of this is just childish banter that will go around and around for WAY too long.

I am not trying to "stir the pot" and take sides on who is right or wrong in this matter, but iron play is strictly a personal preference, and if one set of irons feels great to one person and they want to play them, then so be it. I play the irons that everyone calls "Fakes" or "Reject" irons, but I will say they feel/look DAMN GOOD and my swing weights needed to be adjusted by maybe .25 - .5 of a swing weight if that. I was not even able to tell unless it was on a scale and that could be from just more epoxy on one club for all I know. I aint TOUR just rec golfer with a little HO in him.

I have played a number of FORGED heads TOUR and NOT TOUR, MIURA/NOT MIURA and can consider myself knowledgeable in what what feels solid and fits MY preferences. That is one thing that CAN'T be argued - hit a set of these REJECTS and another OTR set of forged irons and I think the difference will speak for itself.

On another note all of the talk of the T stamp heads that I have seen posted on various sites always seems to refer to TXXXXX type of heads and those are usually drivers. Which leads to my next point, there has been many pics taken of TOUR drivers in PUBLISHED Japanese mags that show TXXX serial numbers on Sergio's and Goosen's drivers (yes, it is a close up and will try to locate the mag). One of the main people who was CLAIMING all the REJECT "T" stamps happens to be someone who was banned from other sites and is now in DOGHOUSE with many here. We need to stop making this about "someone" on that site or this site and make this about EVERYONE's pursuit to find what they want.

Bottom line is it is up tp TM themselves to come out and differentiate their TOUR items from ones that are not, and until then, this topic will go round and round until HELL freezes over. Just go with what you like and leave the banter for the play ground....a majority of all the people on these sites are NOT going PRO anytime soon and should probably leave info that they got from a friend of a friend who has a tour hook up who knows a brother of a sister who has worked on a tour van out of this. Also all of this talk about fakes and rejects just hurts everyone and not just TM, but all the various TOUR items that people have. Now everyone is talking about this is fake and that is fake, which just crushes the market all together. Obviously there are the certain cases where there is NO question about it, but we will leave those on their own.

Like I said not taking sides here and choose to visit ALL sites to find out info and see the latest products, but this subject has been beaten to death here. Just my 2 cents NOTHING OFFICIAL!!!!!!

JUST ENJOY THE GAME. :smile2:

[+TourSpecGolfer]

OK, I did some reading up on this subject that I don't know much about but here is my take...

Not all T stamps are made by Miura, in fact the majority are not, only the old Japan release stuff is for sure, other than that some Authentic Tour Issue stuff is but even this year in Tokyo TM's top told me they have no dealings with Miura anymore. My best guess is the TM Rac CB Japan release was the last of the Miura forged TM product.

Am I on the right track here?

Who says Miura is still making for TM?

I read a little bit about the T stamps supposedly meaning T=Trash because the specs are all out of whack. Thats a tuff one to believe IMO.

We should gather as many Tour TM T stamp sets as possible and get them weighed and checked, if the result is something like 50% + of them having defective specs then the trash theory might not be to far off.

also It wouldn't hurt to start a thread that has high quality close up images ( maybe magnify option on your digi cam ) of the T stamp #'s and we can put them on file in a thread to help others distinguish the differences and what the truth really is.

On another note all of the talk of the T stamp heads that I have seen posted on various sites always seems to refer to TXXXXX type of heads and those are usually drivers. Which leads to my next point, there has been many pics taken of TOUR drivers in PUBLISHED Japanese mags that show TXXX serial numbers on Sergio's driver (yes, it is a close up and will try to locate the mag). One of the main people who was CLAIMING all the REJECT "T" stamps happens to be someone who was banned from other sites and is now in DOGHOUSE with many here. We need to stop making this about "someone" on that site or this site and make this about EVERYONE's pursuit to find what they want.

I agree with this! I have JDM Mags with T#### stamps in them. That tells us a lot. and this thread should be deleted because it seems to be off the wall speculation.

[jich505]

I have heard that MIURA is NOT doing the forging for TM on their latest line of clubs like the new 05 TP's, but before that, they were still doing some forging for TM.

[joey3108]

On another note all of the talk of the T stamp heads that I have seen posted on various sites always seems to refer to TXXXXX type of heads and those are usually drivers. Which leads to my next point, there has been many pics taken of TOUR drivers in PUBLISHED Japanese mags that show TXXX serial numbers on Sergio's driver (yes, it is a close up and will try to locate the mag).

I agree with this! I have JDM Mags with T#### stamps in them. That tells us a lot. and this thread should be deleted because it seems to be off the wall speculation.

Those Marking are only for the woods as far as i know.

Joe :cool:

[xtremecruiser]

Yes all the drivers do have the T stamps but not the irons.

There are many that know the truth but are too scared to say it

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/d/drer2590.jpg

[joey3108]

I wish i took a pictures on every one of them i've work on. With my sharpies marking on them, I can tell how wack up one by one to the exact grams.

I only remember that a few of them have a minor blemish on the chroming but bad enough for production and I'm sure quite a few of them has a wack up weight but i can't remember how bad was that.

Joe :cool:

[madball]

Yes all the drivers do have the T stamps but not the irons.

There are many that know the truth but are too scared to say it

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/d/drer2590.jpg

The Txxxxxxx serial numbers on the drivers was never in question.

It is the etched "T" on the hosel of the irons that caused all the controversy....

[jich505]

Madball,

That is part of my point. All of the links that I have seen people attaching to threads about T etched irons have put links talking about the T serial numbers(Carlsbad something - can't remember). This is why I am so confused at this point. I have not seen any links from anyone even remotely from TM Tour dept or rep that states that these are not TOUR or even rejects of TOURs according to certain standards. The only responses that I have seen on ANY site from any TM dept. has been in support of the T etched hosels. Just trying figure things out.

I am not trying to act like I know EVERYTHING about TM products or TOUR products for that matter, but I just want to see something that either proves one way or another and NOT just a bunch of speculation.

So just because the irons have a T etched in them supposedly means they are TRASH from TM. What happened to all the other iron sets out there from awhile back that also had FORGED on the hosel? Those are legit? I don't mind info at all, but when it turns to someone just judging products, that is another thing. I just want to know as much as everyone else.

[xtremecruiser]

:whistle: :wink:

Subj: Re: Re: Your Inquiry To TaylorMade Golf (XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX)

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:43:13 -0800

From: "Consumer Feedback" <[email protected]>

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hello XXX,

Thanks for the email.

No there isn't. We don't serialize the Tour Issued Irons or Wedges. Hope

this helps and if you have any other questions, please feel free to

contact one of our Customer Service Specialists at 800-888-2582.

Thank you again and we wish you continued success with your golf game!

Best Regards,

Marcus

http://maxfli.com

http://taylormadegolf.com

http://adidasgolf.com

Original Message Follows:

------------------------

Thanks for the reply Alan.

Is there also such a thing as a "T" stamp tour issue RAC iron set ?

[TMack]

Who cares? I've extensively hit the T-Stamp RAC CB's and they're as sweet as any iron I've ever hit. Considerably softer than my MP-32's. They're clearly sensational stix. Clearly a VERY high quality forging. If Miura didn't do them, then some other sensational foundry did.

Why some people are so invested in tearing them down probably says a lot more about the person than the irons. Don't you think?

-TMc

[champx2]

I wish i took a pictures on every one of them i've work on. With my sharpies marking on them, I can tell how wack up one by one to the exact grams.

I only remember that a few of them have a minor blemish on the chroming but bad enough for production and I'm sure quite a few of them has a wack up weight but i can't remember how bad was that.

Joe :cool:

Hey Joe,

I saw in another thread about 300 forged you mentioned the Asian satin finshes. I agree with you 100%. The TM rac tour stuff has a very unique subtle satin finish. Did the "T" etched sets you worked on have the same finish as seen on the rac coin forged milled face sets? The finish looked different to me in the pics when I first saw them on bsg but I have never seen a set in person.

[jich505]

Champ,

From the two TOUR sets of MB's that I have owned, they have had two different types of finishes to them. The T etched irons definitely have more of a Satin finish to them and are not as shiny as the others. The "coin forged" hosel irons I had (from you Champ) were defintely a little more shiny. My uncles were the same way. I like both of the finishes in different ways. I do like how the T etched irons have no millings in the pockets and FORGED on the hosel. The satin is definitely more of a satin with much less glare.

In regards to the email Extreme posted, I remember seeing that one now, but I have seen others that have said the exact opposite also, posted by Big. Obviously he is going to post ones that supports his product, but I also don't think he would use somone's name attached to it if it was not some what true. I think that would be taking a huge risk. Regardless, the irons feel SOLID and SOFT as Butta! For the price that some of these sets are going for (NOT THAT PRICEY TO BEGIN WITH at least now) I would take them over a lot other irons out there, including the last TOUR set I had (no offense CHAMP). But I guess when I got them the prices were much higher.

I guess it just goes back to what you like and what feels right to the player, but at the same time I keep hearing TWO COMPLETELY different stories on what these clubs stand for. I guess the only thing I do know is everyone should try hitting them for themselves because if this is what CHEAP FORGING or below standard feels like, I don't think anything will be coming into the bag for a little while. :surprize:

[+TourSpecGolfer]

ahhhh,...

I think I get it.

The Irons with the T stamp are in question here. I have only seen woods in the JDM mags with the T###'s.

Learn something new everyday, but really who cares, why buy something if the validity of the product is already in question.

everyone knows the TM Japanese Miura 300 forged Irons were the best Irons that TM has ever made.

[hooters29102]

well from what I have gathered from TM, still waiting one some type of press release thing I was promised to post. and after speaking with BH who sells thi sstuff, straight from his mouth. Many of the wedges and stuff that he aquires are tour stuff. Only thing is that they are the rejected versions. They didnt quite meet TMs pecs. so they are given to people who are suppossed to destroy them but they end up selling them off for pennies to other people. As for the T stamp, there is no real reason behind it, I have never seen a real set of tour irons from the tour that has this T stamp. From my findings and my best estimated guess is that these were meant for tour but didnt meet specs. Not every club comes out perfect. but TM only offers the best to its players, they want stuff that is dead on. So technically they are rejects, The stamp helps them distinguish this. Much in the way Cameron usedt o stamp a letter to let him know which ones have been refinished and stuff.

[xtremecruiser]

Champ,

From the two TOUR sets of MB's that I have owned, they have had two different types of finishes to them. The T etched irons definitely have more of a Satin finish to them and are not as shiny as the others. The "coin forged" hosel irons I had (from you Champ) were defintely a little more shiny. My uncles were the same way. I like both of the finishes in different ways. I do like how the T etched irons have no millings in the pockets and FORGED on the hosel. The satin is definitely more of a satin with much less glare.

In regards to the email Extreme posted, I remember seeing that one now, but I have seen others that have said the exact opposite also, posted by Big. Obviously he is going to post ones that supports his product, but I also don't think he would use somone's name attached to it if it was not some what true. I think that would be taking a huge risk. Regardless, the irons feel SOLID and SOFT as Butta! For the price that some of these sets are going for (NOT THAT PRICEY TO BEGIN WITH at least now) I would take them over a lot other irons out there, including the last TOUR set I had (no offense CHAMP). But I guess when I got them the prices were much higher.

I guess it just goes back to what you like and what feels right to the player, but at the same time I keep hearing TWO COMPLETELY different stories on what these clubs stand for. I guess the only thing I do know is everyone should try hitting them for themselves because if this is what CHEAP FORGING or below standard feels like, I don't think anything will be coming into the bag for a little while. :surprize:

I will be glad to forward you the email so you can have the headers and IP's traced to show that it is from TM :whistle:

Why pay all the $$$ for a set of seconds :yuk:

[RicWeb]

First of all I am not speculating about anything......I have bought a couple sets of these heads and was "warned" after the fact & ANON that there might be information contrary to the marketing hype available here.....I mounted the heads last night and will swing weight them today.....I never insert weights intot he hossel, 100% lead tape...for 25 years now.....at plus 3.8 I have a pretty good sense of feel and quality, and these heads are beautiful indeed......the T stamp, said to be made in the Tour Dept @ TM, is the question.......why remove or delete a thread that serves a purpose? Perhaps we can put this to rest once and for all.....BTW, I have NO complaints about the people I bought these from, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to research "Rumors".....

Thanks for all logical input, as that's really all I seek...not like these boards are private and this won't be seen by others......as for the quote "others know the truth but are not coming forward", that's the complex dillema IMHO.......

I have personally spoken with Miura, they referrenced me to a TM article were the cost of forging @ Miura is somewhat higher, and that TM has stopped using them due to limitations on volume.......