Milled wedges, milling the face how to?

[J-J]

Could anyone tell me if it's possible to customize a wedge with a milled face?

And how to do this?

Would this also be usefull for irons.

Thanks for any replies!

Jim

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Could anyone tell me if it's possible to customize a wedge with a milled face?

And how to do this?

Would this also be usefull for irons.

Thanks for any replies!

Jim

Thats a very good question Jim, I too would also like to know how this can be done aftermarket. It would take a CNC machine and I assume it would remove some weight from the head as well.

IMO wedges with milling marks do not feel as soft as wedges without. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your preferences.

Perhaps Ari or Joe can Chime in and give us an idea of the pro's and con's of doing so.

On a side note I am curious how the GAS1 Forged by Gauge Japan was made with a full satin head and a raw face, is this an easy process for a refinisher?

[FairwayFred]

It would be next to impossible to do this aftermarket and make it look right without regrinding the whole head. When we mill the face of a head we have to start with a completely raw head. When the face is milled you are taking away metal and effectivly lowering the surface of the face which leaves you with a distinct ledge at the edge of the face where the rest of the head is now above this lowered milled face area. When we do this we then have to grind the rest of the head down to the same level so that the face is flush with the rest of the head. This take alot of weight off and if you did all of this to a retail head aftermarket you would be left with a head that is useless from a weighting standpoint. You also really need to redo the grooves when you mill the head as you are making the grooves that much more shallow as you take away metal from the face.

IMO the actual milling of the face doesnt do too much by itself, it adds a small measure of spin when brand new because the face is a little rougher but that wears out real fast. The main advantage of milling the face is that the face is now 100% flat. IMO the biggest performance difference from milling comes from milling the grooves which can give you alot more spin.

As for the Gauge GAS1 finish with the Satin body and raw face, I have actually talked to my plater about this at length and it is definetly not that hard to do. Basically what you have to do is tape up the face (the area you dont want plated) with electrical tape. The electrical tape does not conduct the electricity that is used for the plating so therefor the plating goes everywhere else on the head that doesnt have the tape. The problem with this is that again you are left with a face that isnt flush (although MUCH MUCH closer than the milled aftermarket face) Anytime you do a plated finish like that you are adding metal. In this case most likely a layer of nickel and then a thin layer of chrome. Since you are not plating the face again the area around the face will be slightly higher than the face. Take a GAS1 head and run your finger along the edge of the face. You can feel where the plating ends and the raw begins and how the plating is a little higher. Of course you shouldnt be hitting the ball that far out on the toe anyways but it is not flat none the less. This could be done by a refinisher without too much problem as long as they are ok with the fact that the face wont be flat. Do you know what kind of black finish they use on the face? Is that a teflon finish, a black oxide or something different?

Edited December 28, 2005 by FairwayFred

[joey3108]

I know a few machine shop will do it for me but the cost is not practical at all.

It's not a Machine shop fault on the cost. They have a minimum charge to make sure it cover their time to work on the club, whether it's only 1 or 20 pieces. The have what they call set up fee.

Off course it'll be a lot cheaper when you do 20 pieces at a time.

Edited December 28, 2005 by joey3108

[+TourSpecGolfer]

It would be next to impossible to do this aftermarket and make it look right without regrinding the whole head. When we mill the face of a head we have to start with a completely raw head. When the face is milled you are taking away metal and effectivly lowering the surface of the face which leaves you with a distinct ledge at the edge of the face where the rest of the head is now above this lowered milled face area. When we do this we then have to grind the rest of the head down to the same level so that the face is flush with the rest of the head. This take alot of weight off and if you did all of this to a retail head aftermarket you would be left with a head that is useless from a weighting standpoint. You also really need to redo the grooves when you mill the head as you are making the grooves that much more shallow as you take away metal from the face.

IMO the actual milling of the face doesnt do too much by itself, it adds a small measure of spin when brand new because the face is a little rougher but that wears out real fast. The main advantage of milling the face is that the face is now 100% flat. IMO the biggest performance difference from milling comes from milling the grooves which can give you alot more spin.

As for the Gauge GAS1 finish with the Satin body and raw face, I have actually talked to my plater about this at length and it is definetly not that hard to do. Basically what you have to do is tape up the face (the area you dont want plated) with electrical tape. The electrical tape does not conduct the electricity that is used for the plating so therefor the plating goes everywhere else on the head that doesnt have the tape. The problem with this is that again you are left with a face that isnt flush (although MUCH MUCH closer than the milled aftermarket face) Anytime you do a plated finish like that you are adding metal. In this case most likely a layer of nickel and then a thin layer of chrome. Since you are not plating the face again the area around the face will be slightly higher than the face. Take a GAS1 head and run your finger along the edge of the face. You can feel where the plating ends and the raw begins and how the plating is a little higher. Of course you shouldnt be hitting the ball that far out on the toe anyways but it is not flat none the less. This could be done by a refinisher without too much problem as long as they are ok with the fact that the face wont be flat. Do you know what kind of black finish they use on the face? Is that a teflon finish, a black oxide or something different?

I beg to differ, If anything Scratch wedges don't have flat faces. Your wedge faces are hand ground flat not CNC milled flat like the GAS1's The only way to get perfectly flat faces is to CNC mill them. Unless you CNC all your faces which you don't, they are not flat.

You are talking about the difference between the plating and the black oxide raw face line which isn't where people impact the ball anyway.

The GAS1's have flat CNC milled faces and grooves where as your wedges use TI stamps to make the grooves and have hand done faces. CNC grooves will last longer and and can have a specified sharpness down to the point.

From a high end stand point electric tape will work but not as well as titanium mesh tape. the Electric tape you are talking about has a side effect of losing groove sharpness.

[FairwayFred]

I beg to differ, If anything Scratch wedges don't have flat faces. Your wedge faces are hand ground flat not CNC milled flat like the GAS1's The only way to get perfectly flat faces is to CNC mill them. Unless you CNC all your faces which you don't, they are not flat.

You are talking about the difference between the plating and the black oxide raw face line which isn't where people impact the ball anyway.

The GAS1's have flat CNC milled faces and grooves where as your wedges use TI stamps to make the grooves and have hand done faces. CNC grooves will last longer and and can have a specified sharpness down to the point.

From a high end stand point electric tape will work but not as well as titanium mesh tape. the Electric tape you are talking about has a side effect of losing groove sharpness.

Chris,

You are definetly right the face of a club is not 100% flat unless it is milled flat or machine ground flat. (again were splitting hairs here from a performance standpoint) We do mill the faces of some of our wedges if that is what the customer wants. We also mill the grooves if that is something the customer wants.

As for the GAS1 finish, I am just relaying what my plater told me. I will mention the titanium mesh tape to him next time I talk to him I am sure that would work anything that doesnt conduct the electricity of the plating will work. Out of curiosity and so I can inform my plater how does the electrical tape dull the grooves?

Edited December 28, 2005 by FairwayFred

[fairwayfinder]

Could anyone tell me if it's possible to customize a wedge with a milled face?

And how to do this?

Would this also be usefull for irons.

Thanks for any replies!

Jim

It can be done, like this.

Get a fixture to hold the club head

Trim it in in all axis untill you are perfectly flat to the spindle nose of the CNC

Then take all the inserts of the cutter off minus one.

Run across the face at a fast feed and a slow speed

This will generate a milled face but will NOT cut down into the club head. The thickness of the face remains the same but now you are generating small grooves.

Same thing I do to a putter head to give it "Mill Marks"

There is near no reason to do this tough

Matt :tsg_smiley_no: