MP 60'S Custom Mizuno Order

[SPEEDER]

Ok Guys,

I am going to pull the trigger on a custom set of Mizuno's from Chris. Before i order just wanted to get some opinions on my order.

This is what i am thinking MP 60's 2-PW in Either in satin or double nickel. I presume the nickel is softer, and less durable ?? Does it being softer mean less distance ?? Does anybody have any pictures of Where the M stamp would be on the 60's ?? I presume you still have to get the M stamp, and grain flow forged on the hosel ??

I want to order them with slightly less offset. Thinner topline and thinner sole. Is this possible, and by how much ??

I am not sure if i want a squarer toe, any opinions ??

Are Project x or tour concept's available now ??

Are the japan's specs the same, length, lie and loft ??

I have even considered a mix set of 32's and 60's, but i like the profile of the 60's better.

Your opinions are very helpful, as i have never ordered custom grinded irons. I obviously want to order them correctly, considering the cost.

THANK-YOU VERY MUCH !!!!

[taipanli]

Ok Guys,

I am going to pull the trigger on a custom set of Mizuno's from Chris. Before i order just wanted to get some opinions on my order.

This is what i am thinking MP 60's 2-PW in Either in satin or double nickel. I presume the nickel is softer, and less durable ?? Does it being softer mean less distance ?? Does anybody have any pictures of Where the M stamp would be on the 60's ?? I presume you still have to get the M stamp, and grain flow forged on the hosel ??

I want to order them with slightly less offset. Thinner topline and thinner sole. Is this possible, and by how much ??

I am not sure if i want a squarer toe, any opinions ??

Are Project x or tour concept's available now ??

Are the japan's specs the same, length, lie and loft ??

I have even considered a mix set of 32's and 60's, but i like the profile of the 60's better.

Your opinions are very helpful, as i have never ordered custom grinded irons. I obviously want to order them correctly, considering the cost.

THANK-YOU VERY MUCH !!!!

I wouldn't screw around with the grind or the offset. Double nickel satin finish feels great (my custom wedges are in that finish). Can't say whether it affects distance or not. Website is Mizuno Japan for you to check specs. If you surf around, you'll find the page that shows the custom options.

[SPEEDER]

I wouldn't screw around with the grind or the offset. Double nickel satin finish feels great (my custom wedges are in that finish). Can't say whether it affects distance or not. Website is Mizuno Japan for you to check specs. If you surf around, you'll find the page that shows the custom options.

Is their a reason, you would'nt change the grind ??

[taipanli]

Is their a reason, you would'nt change the grind ??

IMHO, the OEMs spend a lot of money on R&D and therefore you would assume that the entire balance of an iron head has been put throught the grinder (no pun intended). For this reason, changing the dimensions of a club would upset the overall balance to a certain extent. Perhaps for personal preferences you could make minimal changes but you always run the risk that it may not perform as well. Changing the thickness of the topline or the sole will shift the COG - they cannot adjust it back according to your grind. Loft and lie is not an issue since the head (sans hosel) is not touched affected unless the loft is altered too many degrees.

Clubmaking experts please chime in if I'm way off base but I doubt it. :tsg_smiley_no:

[mhccap]

i completely agree in regards to customing the offset...as far as grind...not so much. however, i dont think there are many people on this planet that know what grind they should have to begin with, so from that aspect i completely agree.

[gticlay2]

First off, if you are going to spend that kind of coin on the irons, make sure you test out a standard set first. I have a set of them with X100, +0.5" and I love every single thing about them. It's rained about 6" this week so the course was severely wet and muddy but I still managed a nice little net 65 (gross 76) today with them. I LOVE THE MP-60's!!!!!!!!!

[+TourSpecGolfer]

PX shafts and DC shafts are no longer an option for the custom mizunos, too expensive! the Nickel finish is softer and will not rust yet ding slightly easier, I suggest the nickel if you use iron covers and brushed satin if you don't.

In regards to custom grinds, the Mizuno factory in Japan will not do anything that will affect performance in a negative manner. Every grind is quite conservative and what Taipanli said was correct, even the slightest relief grinding will move the C.O.G and even the slightest toe shape adjustment as well. Just because you have the option to do grind work doesn't mean it is any better for your swing, in most cases its counter productive yet in the internet forums people think the more you tinker with design the better it gets while its the exact opposite.

My grind suggestions are matching top line and soles for combo sets and offset adjustments if you really need it. Other than that use the standard grind, I have found that pound for pound pure performance is more reliable in its original design.

[FairwayFred]

You can definetly negativly effect the way a club plays by doing too much grinding. However making small grind changes to the sole and toe will not negativly effect playability at all. We have done a ton of testing on this, ground clubs with different sole grinds and toe shapes and the COG pretty much stays in the same exact place. Grinding the sole a little flatter or rounder or killing the leading edge does not take off much weight at all. Same with making the toe a little more round or square. Were talking a couple grams here and a couple grams there. (My specific KLE grind that I play takes an additional 2.5 grams off the sole and when tested the COG stays in the exact same place) You can even round off the edges of the topline to make it appear thinner of flatten it out to make it appear thicker and you will not change anything. The other key is taking weight off opposite areas if the grind is more extreme. This will also keep the COG in the same place. OEMs design the sole grind to fit the max amount of people that they can. They design the toe shape to try to appeal to as many people as they can visually. They are designing a set of clubs for a mass of people not for one individual. While some of us can use the standard grind with no problems there are many that will greatly benefit from some slight changes to the sole that fit along with their swing. There is no question that a set that is designed for you with a grind that fits your swing will outperform an off the rack set of clubs that is designed for the masses every time.

A good example on the weighting issue, you send a set of clubs in to be blueprinted. You get D4 swingweights. Your clubmaker has to add 6 grams of lead to the hosel to get the swingweight to D4 from D1. This will do more to shift the COG than just about any small custom grind and just about anyone you ask will tell you that you can add about 8-10 grams of lead in the hosel before you really start to have any effect on playability at all. And weather you know it or not most people out there are playing with irons that have lead in the hosel.

Edited January 15, 2006 by FairwayFred

[+TourSpecGolfer]

You can definetly negativly effect the way a club plays by doing too much grinding. However making small grind changes to the sole and toe will not negativly effect playability at all. We have done a ton of testing on this, ground clubs with different sole grinds and toe shapes and the COG pretty much stays in the same exact place. Grinding the sole a little flatter or rounder or killing the leading edge does not take off much weight at all. Same with making the toe a little more round or square. Were talking a couple grams here and a couple grams there. (My specific KLE grind that I play takes an additional 2.5 grams off the sole and when tested the COG stays in the exact same place) You can even round off the edges of the topline to make it appear thinner of flatten it out to make it appear thicker and you will not change anything. The other key is taking weight off opposite areas if the grind is more extreme. This will also keep the COG in the same place. OEMs design the sole grind to fit the max amount of people that they can. They design the toe shape to try to appeal to as many people as they can visually. They are designing a set of clubs for a mass of people not for one individual. While some of us can use the standard grind with no problems there are many that will greatly benefit from some slight changes to the sole that fit along with their swing. There is no question that a set that is designed for you with a grind that fits your swing will outperform an off the rack set of clubs that is designed for the masses every time.

A good example on the weighting issue, you send a set of clubs in to be blueprinted. You get D4 swingweights. Your clubmaker has to add 6 grams of lead to the hosel to get the swingweight to D4 from D1. This will do more to shift the COG than just about any small custom grind and just about anyone you ask will tell you that you can add about 8-10 grams of lead in the hosel before you really start to have any effect on playability at all. And weather you know it or not most people out there are playing with irons that have lead in the hosel.

Ari no offence but until you put each design through a CAD CAM you cant know. Mizuno tour grind staff does this for a reason, even if you grind some off on the opposite end it will affect the overall design of the club and its characteristics including optimal hitting area for maximum forgiveness, C.O.G effectiveness and location. Its not just about swing weight and grinds its about club head design, removing 1mm in the top line doesn't have the same affect as anything you do to the swing weight. How I see it is unless you have a very unorthodox swing habit adjusting many grind aspects for the sake of cool esthetics or placebo effect will always be a negative. This is what I am told from grinders at Grind Studio Japan (RF) with over 15 years experience as well as club head designers that actually use autocad to test the designs they are commissioned to produce.

[SPEEDER]

So really i should only change the offset ?? Am i better off going with stock ??

[gus]

Changing offset has it's own set of problems. I ordered and play a custom set of MP37's and had them done in the polished satin chrome finish and they look fantastic. You can choose where you would like to place the Mizuno stampings as well. I choose the solid "M" stamp and I think it looks much better than the stock outlined "M", very tour. I also choose burgandy paint fill and my initials, all of which turned out really nice. I say switch up the cosmetics a bit but leave the grinds and offset alone. I can understand goofing around with grinds/bounce on the wedges due to playing conditions and loft selections but I can't see much benefit to risking it with a $1200 set of irons unless you know exactly what the outcome will be. What happens if you reduce offset and the damn COG moves towards the toe or something like that???

[tsg4tch]

Ok Guys,

I am going to pull the trigger on a custom set of Mizuno's from Chris. Before i order just wanted to get some opinions on my order.

This is what i am thinking MP 60's 2-PW in Either in satin or double nickel. I presume the nickel is softer, and less durable ?? Does it being softer mean less distance ?? Does anybody have any pictures of Where the M stamp would be on the 60's ?? I presume you still have to get the M stamp, and grain flow forged on the hosel ??

I want to order them with slightly less offset. Thinner topline and thinner sole. Is this possible, and by how much ??

I am not sure if i want a squarer toe, any opinions ??

Are Project x or tour concept's available now ??

Are the japan's specs the same, length, lie and loft ??

I have even considered a mix set of 32's and 60's, but i like the profile of the 60's better.

Your opinions are very helpful, as i have never ordered custom grinded irons. I obviously want to order them correctly, considering the cost.

THANK-YOU VERY MUCH !!!!

If I were ordering for myself, I know exactly how I'd customize the grind and offset. Without knowing that, it's a lot of money to spend for a grind that may not suit you.

Where do you play most of your golf---soft conditions like Northern California or hard like East Texas? Do you take big divots with a steep swing or shallow/no divots with a sweeping swing?

The only real issue I have with the MP-60s is the offset in the short irons, but I prefer very little offset in my irons--like a Titleist blade.

I really think their nickel is super sweet looking, but I have never worried about the bag chatter that forged irons get over time. I kind of like that weathered look.

I believe, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, you can get the "M" stamp inside the cavity high on the toe or below the cavity in the middle bottom where "Mizuno" is usually stamped.

Let us know/see what you chose.

After much discussion with Tom Wishon, it's my understanding you have to reposition a lot weight in an iron head to materially affect foregiveness/COG, fwiw.

Edited January 20, 2006 by tsg4tch