jamboy72 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 First, let me say what a wonderful site you have here!! Super great pics and wonderful info relative to the Japanese import market...As I am starting to learn more about these brands, I am desparately trying to figure out how the most passionate golfers in the world determine "feel...." So that being said, if you wouldn't mind, I would love hearing your thoughts as to how you might ranks the following forgings from "soft" to "hard." I certainly understand some of this is subjective, but I am wondering where to start! Here are the companies in which I am most interested: Endo/Epon Miura Mizuno - mass production Mizuno - Custom Production PRGR.... Please feel free to tell me why you also might like/dislike any of the mentioned brands! Thanks Jamboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranghips Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 First, let me say what a wonderful site you have here!! Super great pics and wonderful info relative to the Japanese import market...As I am starting to learn more about these brands, I am desparately trying to figure out how the most passionate golfers in the world determine "feel...." So that being said, if you wouldn't mind, I would love hearing your thoughts as to how you might ranks the following forgings from "soft" to "hard." I certainly understand some of this is subjective, but I am wondering where to start!Here are the companies in which I am most interested: Endo/Epon Miura Mizuno - mass production Mizuno - Custom Production PRGR.... Please feel free to tell me why you also might like/dislike any of the mentioned brands! Thanks Jamboy All the above brands have merit, indeed they all produce outstanding clubs. The question of feel is totally subjective, I currently play with Miura CB 1006's which I think are the softest feeling heads that I have used in over 30 years of playing the game. Chris ( Tourspecgolfer) tells us that the Epons are softer because Miura's spin welded hosels reduce the overall softness of the head. I have not had the opportunity to play any of the Epons ( Type J or X), but have had experience of other Endo forgings and I have found them to feel more 'clicky' than the Miura's, similar to Mizuno's more recent products. If you are in the market for new irons, you wouldn't be disapointed with the feel of any of the above, only a back to back comparison would would tell you which felt best for you. Good luck with your dilemma! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboy72 Posted January 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Thanks for the info! I would also add Scratch to my original list....Any other thoughts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubHoUno Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Thanks for the info! I would also add Scratch to my original list....Any other thoughts?? Maybe your list should be more like this then: Epon Miura Mizuno - Mass Production Mizuno - Custom Production PRGR Endo Japan Mass Production Endo US Mass Production I don't know anything about PRPG and have only read about Mizuno custom production and Epon irons - but I would guess they would rank like this in terms of softness - and it's only me guessing away here This is ranked from most soft to least soft accordingly: 1. Epon 2. Mizuno Custom Production 3. PRGR 4. Miura 5. Mizuno Mass Production 6. Endo Japan Mass Production 7. Endo US Mass Production The stuff Endo does for Bridgestone US and Titleist US are very clicky in feel - definitely not what one would consider soft at all. The muted sound at impact you get with both Mizuno and Miura irons makes them feel very very soft - no matter if Miura uses spin welded hosels they still manage to produce a top class iron with very soft feel and muted sound at impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboy72 Posted January 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Thanks for the thoughts! I know that Scratch uses 1018 and this is softer than others...however, how an iron plays may feel differently depending on finish, etc. - So...any other thoughts?? My guess would be: Scratch Miura Mizzy Custom Epon... but again, I haven't hit any of these brands.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus1 Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Thanks for the thoughts!I know that Scratch uses 1018 and this is softer than others...however, how an iron plays may feel differently depending on finish, etc. - So...any other thoughts?? My guess would be: Scratch Miura Mizzy Custom Epon... but again, I haven't hit any of these brands.... hey jammy good to see another uker in the forum -! I have owned all of the above irons and each have their own unique feel, which all are different types of softness. I personally do not find miura ultra soft and actually kind of firm, the mizzys are mizzys and the epons have a really solid soft feel. The scratch use the softest material but dont paly as soft as suggest - they in my opinion are very solid. in terms of feel my ranking would be 1. original gauge design irons (handmades) 2. scratch or epon .....personally i prefer the scratch but to be fair the epon have the most unique solid feel i have hit 3. mizzys 4. miura hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gth1017 Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 hey jammy good to see another uker in the forum -! I have owned all of the above irons and each have their own unique feel, which all are different types of softness.I personally do not find miura ultra soft and actually kind of firm, the mizzys are mizzys and the epons have a really solid soft feel. The scratch use the softest material but dont paly as soft as suggest - they in my opinion are very solid. in terms of feel my ranking would be 1. original gauge design irons (handmades) 2. scratch or epon .....personally i prefer the scratch but to be fair the epon have the most unique solid feel i have hit 3. mizzys 4. miura hope this helps Haven't had my Epons (Type J) for very long, but you've come across a great phase to describe them--unique, solid feel. I haven't hit anything quite like it, and I think it may be my favorite yet. I've hit most everything there's to hit, and these are most like a sledgehammer hitting a golf ball. Mine are shafted with NS 1150's, and the combo offers a very "heavy" feel which translates to a totally solid hit but a soft hit--nothing clicky to it. You've almost got to try it yourself to understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landshark Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 plus 1: where would you rank the g field nc1's in the list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Mizunos have a great feel thats for sure, I notice custom spec ordered from us has a different chrome, satin, and black than the retail USA spec. I'm guessing the true customs are done nearby in Japan. The deal on Mizuno is from what I understand they don't own the factory yet have pure exclusive rights with a top quality foundry to produce only Mizuno clubs. Some of the best irons I have hit have been Custom Grind Mizuno blades with the black finish. Its to bad anything with a finish that wears will decrease in resale value much quicker than a plated set. I really do give props to brands like Mizuno and Srixon in the USA, they are selling quality japanese forged product to the American consumer at very decent prices . Kudo's to KZG too for using Kyoei. My favorite by a mile is the Epon Type J with the NiCr20 finish. Rumor has it they have a blade coming mid 07. If you want unreal soft hit the Epon Model X wedge in the copper finish. Its the softest wedge I have ever hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus1 Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 plus 1:where would you rank the g field nc1's in the list? although they are currently in bag in terms of softness i wouldnt put them in the top 30. they are not soft and definitely have a slightly clicky feel - however performance is excellent with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkman53 Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) Chris; How does the copper surface on the Epon wedge hold up after use in bunkers and off hardpan lies? How much does soft feel relate to spin, or is there any direct relationship? Edited January 9, 2007 by dorkman53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landshark Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 although they are currently in bag in terms of softness i wouldnt put them in the top 30. they are not soft and definitely have a slightly clicky feel - however performance is excellent with them not in top 30? sure you don't mean top 3? kinda dissappointing to hear that actually. now if i could get my hands on an inexpensive set of epon x's, or heads alone, i'd sure like to try those. surprised i didn't hear chris say anything about the proto epon that he has pictured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaykkr Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Mizunos have a great feel thats for sure, I notice custom spec ordered from us has a different chrome, satin, and black than the retail USA spec. I'm guessing the true customs are done nearby in Japan. The deal on Mizuno is from what I understand they don't own the factory yet have pure exclusive rights with a top quality foundry to produce only Mizuno clubs. Some of the best irons I have hit have been Custom Grind Mizuno blades with the black finish. Its to bad anything with a finish that wears will decrease in resale value much quicker than a plated set. I really do give props to brands like Mizuno and Srixon in the USA, they are selling quality japanese forged product to the American consumer at very decent prices . Kudo's to KZG too for using Kyoei.My favorite by a mile is the Epon Type J with the NiCr20 finish. Rumor has it they have a blade coming mid 07. If you want unreal soft hit the Epon Model X wedge in the copper finish. Its the softest wedge I have ever hit. Any update on the blade rumor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 In regards to hardness ratings and absolute quality of metal. You should be looking for: 1020 or 1025 Double Forged of J.I.S grade steel. This is how it works, The more times steel is forged the harder and more compacted the molecular structure gets. The hardness rating increases meaning the ball will spin a tad more but the club will lose its softer feel. Mizuno and Endo both Double Forge, It is more wear and tear on the machinery when a heavier press is used and only twice vs 4x. Also looking at quality, you want a company that can do very sharp and pointy edges without the use of CNC milling. If you look at the EPON Type S, or JPX Forged and other irons made by Endo the corners are crisp and end to end. Also keep in mind softness also depends on the sole and head design, the loft, of the club and its materials used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclekent Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 Chris;How does the copper surface on the Epon wedge hold up after use in bunkers and off hardpan lies? How much does soft feel relate to spin, or is there any direct relationship? I reviewed this post, and am curious about this question. The remainder of the post did not adress this, any insight by the forum? Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 I reviewed this post, and am curious about this question.The remainder of the post did not adress this, any insight by the forum? Kent It will wear for sure. Black, Copper, and other finishes that are not plated will wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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