What to do with the CPM spec as provided by shaft manufacturers

[akcchan]

Hope Chris, TourSpecGirl and other experts in this forum can clarify a few things for me concerning the specs very often provided by shaft makers.

Let's use Mamiya Axiv as an example. Let's say the 5056 driver shaft is listed as 53 gram and 243 cpm.

I remember reading Chris's comment that Axiv uses a 7 inch clamp as oppose to 5 inch used by most other. So a club maker would have to add a few cpm to the 243 if he/she is comparing it to other brands using a 5 inch clamp?

The 243 cpm is based on raw shaft clamped at full length (46 inch in Axiv's case) with a 205g weight at the tip? So, if the club maker wants to approximate a finished 43.75 inch driver with grip, he would have to add to the 243 figure to compensate for the shorter shaft and take away from the 243 to compensate for the grip? If this is correct, how many cpms should be added or subtracted in each case?

Also if I may take this opportunity to ask TourSpecGirl to recommend a shaft in the AXIV, Matrix and Daiwa lineup for my swing (both woods and irons).

SS: 88 mph driver, 76 mph 5 iron

Tempo: smooth to slightly fast

Desire trajectory: medium to high.

Normal ball flight: slight fade.

Many many thanks.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Hope Chris, TourSpecGirl and other experts in this forum can clarify a few things for me concerning the specs very often provided by shaft makers.

Let's use Mamiya Axiv as an example. Let's say the 5056 driver shaft is listed as 53 gram and 243 cpm.

I remember reading Chris's comment that Axiv uses a 7 inch clamp as oppose to 5 inch used by most other. So a club maker would have to add a few cpm to the 243 if he/she is comparing it to other brands using a 5 inch clamp?

The 243 cpm is based on raw shaft clamped at full length (46 inch in Axiv's case) with a 205g weight at the tip? So, if the club maker wants to approximate a finished 43.75 inch driver with grip, he would have to add to the 243 figure to compensate for the shorter shaft and take away from the 243 to compensate for the grip? If this is correct, how many cpms should be added or subtracted in each case?

Also if I may take this opportunity to ask TourSpecGirl to recommend a shaft in the AXIV, Matrix and Daiwa lineup for my swing (both woods and irons).

SS: 88 mph driver, 76 mph 5 iron

Tempo: smooth to slightly fast

Desire trajectory: medium to high.

Normal ball flight: slight fade.

Many many thanks.

Keep CPMs out of your head man, some shaft brands react different to tipping than others, Due to the clamp difference with axiv they tend to play softer than stated, when dealing with japanese shafts there are some quirks with tipping and frequency due to advanced manufacturing methods. With your swing speed in the driver you should focus on other factors like getting your launch numbers and spin rates perfect for you instead of the cpms of the driver itself. Get on the zelocity and see if your shaft is kicking with an increase in speed the closer you get to impact because if its not then your CPMs mean nothing. I would say 75% of golfers in America use shafts that dont increase their club head speed. Many are scratch players too.

Please post your stats in the fitting threads found in the club makers forum.

[akcchan]

Keep CPMs out of your head man, some shaft brands react different to tipping than others, Due to the clamp difference with axiv they tend to play softer than stated, when dealing with japanese shafts there are some quirks with tipping and frequency due to advanced manufacturing methods. With your swing speed in the driver you should focus on other factors like getting your launch numbers and spin rates perfect for you instead of the cpms of the driver itself. Get on the zelocity and see if your shaft is kicking with an increase in speed the closer you get to impact because if its not then your CPMs mean nothing. I would say 75% of golfers in America use shafts that dont increase their club head speed. Many are scratch players too.

Please post your stats in the fitting threads found in the club makers forum.

Thank you Chris. No arguments about getting properly fitted however the intention of my post is to increase my knowledge. If the shaft manufacturers provide cpm numbers, I just want to be able to make sense out of it.

I thank you just the same.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Thank you Chris. No arguments about getting properly fitted however the intention of my post is to increase my knowledge. If the shaft manufacturers provide cpm numbers, I just want to be able to make sense out of it.

I thank you just the same.

Yes I understand but the simple truth of it is that there is no standard in the golf industry, so CPMs to one company will differ vs another, each brand must be using the same exact methods to ensure CPMs are treated the same way and I dont see that happening. For now we must treat each shaft line as unique and learn the tipping methods model by model, brand by brand if its CPMs your trying to adjust.

In regards to your Axiv question, yes your correct he will have to add and subtract but the question is how much for the amount you mention. My mannual doest say CPM increases for any sort of tipping or butt trim so I suggest you be conservative and dry fit everything several times over and always leave extra length as mistakes do happen.

Maybe Carlton can chime in here. We have also sent this question to Mamiya.

[Duffer19]

Hope Chris, TourSpecGirl and other experts in this forum can clarify a few things for me concerning the specs very often provided by shaft makers.

Let's use Mamiya Axiv as an example. Let's say the 5056 driver shaft is listed as 53 gram and 243 cpm.

I remember reading Chris's comment that Axiv uses a 7 inch clamp as oppose to 5 inch used by most other. So a club maker would have to add a few cpm to the 243 if he/she is comparing it to other brands using a 5 inch clamp?

The 243 cpm is based on raw shaft clamped at full length (46 inch in Axiv's case) with a 205g weight at the tip? So, if the club maker wants to approximate a finished 43.75 inch driver with grip, he would have to add to the 243 figure to compensate for the shorter shaft and take away from the 243 to compensate for the grip? If this is correct, how many cpms should be added or subtracted in each case?

Also if I may take this opportunity to ask TourSpecGirl to recommend a shaft in the AXIV, Matrix and Daiwa lineup for my swing (both woods and irons).

SS: 88 mph driver, 76 mph 5 iron

Tempo: smooth to slightly fast

Desire trajectory: medium to high.

Normal ball flight: slight fade.

Many many thanks.

Hi A:

I am not expert on this but I think the cpm stated on the AXiV is based on 45" with 7 inch clamp and a certain head weight. To me at least, it has been a trial and error experiementation that I find the best cpm and shaft profile for me. I have the exact shaft that you are talking about but the fitter tip trimed 1/2 inch to make it to play to 243 for 45".

While I am not a club fitter, I think that for every half inch tip trim, you would be looking at 5-7 cycle higher. I would recommend butt trim to 44.25 to 44.5" first to try then go down 0.25 inch increment.

[akcchan]

Hi A:

I am not expert on this but I think the cpm stated on the AXiV is based on 45" with 7 inch clamp and a certain head weight. To me at least, it has been a trial and error experiementation that I find the best cpm and shaft profile for me. I have the exact shaft that you are talking about but the fitter tip trimed 1/2 inch to make it to play to 243 for 45".

While I am not a club fitter, I think that for every half inch tip trim, you would be looking at 5-7 cycle higher. I would recommend butt trim to 44.25 to 44.5" first to try then go down 0.25 inch increment.

In the AXIV website the 5056 is listed at 243 cpm and the next softer shaft was 233 cpm, the next stiffer at 254. In my case I know roughly how many cpm to add for playing a 43.50 inch driver (as compared to a 45 inch) and roughly how many to take off after putting on my preferred grip. Again by guesstimateing the difference between a 7 inch clamp and 5 inch clamp I arrive at a cpm that will most likely suits me. It is nice to hear Duffer's result for the exact same shaft.

As confusing as this can be, it is a lot of fun........Work hard, earn money, buy shafts :-)

Thanks to Chris and Duffer