oukk Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 wow. it was fun to read. Thank you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubHoUno Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 We, in this forum. tend to dismiss stock shafts too quickly (ncluding yours truly) which is totally unnecessary. The stock shafts with the JDM premium brands are extremely good and the club is being designed as a total package. Many times we actually ruin the the feel of the club by replacing the stock shaft. I totally agree with on this. The club heads are tested with the stock shaft. If the stock shafts is of a decent quality, one should not by default throw it away as a NO NO option before even trying the stock shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I totally agree with on this. The club heads are tested with the stock shaft. If the stock shafts is of a decent quality, one should not by default throw it away as a NO NO option before even trying the stock shaft. Claus makes a good and sensible point and that is to try the product open mindedly without ripping out the shaft purely because it is stock..........makes sense. However, I go the other way. Stock shafts, for obvious reasons, are made to suit the general golfing public, why would they do otherwise. It would make no sense to deliver to market, a product aimed at the 0.01% (or whatever the figure is) of the golf market that play to low single figure hcp and generate 115mph clubspeed, THAT would make no sense by any measure. Especially in Japan where the stock, is obviously designed to cater to that populations general physical characteristics which differ markedly from the characteristics of populations elsewhere. If you 'fit' general characteristics in terms of ball striking etc, then fine, don't change what 'aint broke as the saying goes. For me, the bend profiles and characteristics of stock shafts, are largely unsuitable for the better, harder hitter and certainly are a long way off the mark in terms of producing the optimum LA and Spin ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K2_2 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Claus makes a good and sensible point and that is to try the product open mindedly without ripping out the shaft purely because it is stock..........makes sense. However, I go the other way. Stock shafts, for obvious reasons, are made to suit the general golfing public, why would they do otherwise. It would make no sense to deliver to market, a product aimed at the 0.01% (or whatever the figure is) of the golf market that play to low single figure hcp and generate 115mph clubspeed, THAT would make no sense by any measure. Especially in Japan where the stock, is obviously designed to cater to that populations general physical characteristics which differ markedly from the characteristics of populations elsewhere. If you 'fit' general characteristics in terms of ball striking etc, then fine, don't change what 'aint broke as the saying goes. For me, the bend profiles and characteristics of stock shafts, are largely unsuitable for the better, harder hitter and certainly are a long way off the mark in terms of producing the optimum LA and Spin ratio. Spot on. There are a few rare exceptions, like the new X-Drive 445 which is definitely geared towards the better players, but that is definitely not the norm. TMfreak, can you post a bit of info about your current Fuji? I'm kind of curious about the bend profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Good points all around, most OEM shafts are probably okay for the mid to high handicapper/recreational player and not all stock shafts are created equal. Many equipment brands have learned that putting in a good shaft is just as important as making a good head and it has shown recently as even OEM's are offering better stock shafts and more options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blader-X Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Claus makes a good and sensible point and that is to try the product open mindedly without ripping out the shaft purely because it is stock..........makes sense. However, I go the other way. Stock shafts, for obvious reasons, are made to suit the general golfing public, why would they do otherwise. It would make no sense to deliver to market, a product aimed at the 0.01% (or whatever the figure is) of the golf market that play to low single figure hcp and generate 115mph clubspeed, THAT would make no sense by any measure. Especially in Japan where the stock, is obviously designed to cater to that populations general physical characteristics which differ markedly from the characteristics of populations elsewhere. If you 'fit' general characteristics in terms of ball striking etc, then fine, don't change what 'aint broke as the saying goes. For me, the bend profiles and characteristics of stock shafts, are largely unsuitable for the better, harder hitter and certainly are a long way off the mark in terms of producing the optimum LA and Spin ratio. Great points and all good info. Myself, I've yet to find a stock shaft with a heavy enough weight to it that I prefer (80gm). Most stock shafts are usually in the 50-60 gm range it seems. They fit most but not all. I've never had as good results with lighter shafts than I've had with the heavier ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEasy Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) Great post, Gocchin. Thanks! What's the general take on Royal Collection drivers in Japan, especially the recent FD model? So the FD is not one of the best selling drivers in Japan, and is it because they're too expensive? RC fairway woods are so superior that I have to think they must make great, if not the best, drivers. Edited October 30, 2007 by BigEasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Spot on. There are a few rare exceptions, like the new X-Drive 445 which is definitely geared towards the better players, but that is definitely not the norm. TMfreak, can you post a bit of info about your current Fuji? I'm kind of curious about the bend profile. Hi K2, My current ZCom MW74 is a shaft I like very much. It's certainly not new, 2005 technology, it just performs well for me. It's 74g 2.6* torque, mid launch, mid spin and mid-high kick. I find it very smooth and extremely forgiving. It's certainly not harsh or 'pokey'. I imagine this range would suit many people and would be very easy to fit. It loads progressively and is dead easy to hit so I feel confident even on bad ball striking days. I like mid launch because I'm a high ball hitter, and like to hit the ball that way, mid spin suits because I like to work the ball. I'm experimenting with many other types, lower launch lower spin shafts with tighter profiles that certainly increase distance but then I can't shape shots as readily, nor do I get the same results from poor swings, so there's pros and cons to everything. My priority is accuarcy so I'm always trying new things, but for my gamer I have to be confident. I'll be experimenting over the summer (our off season) and something may knock the current 'chief' out of the bag, but it will have to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K2_2 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi TM, Thanks for the info on the shaft. Finding a shaft that works well when you are on your A game while still letting you put the ball in play on an off day is key. Also, have fun this summer, I didn't realize no one played in WA during December/January... I guess it gets a bit warmer in Perth than it does in Melbourne! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi TM,Thanks for the info on the shaft. Finding a shaft that works well when you are on your A game while still letting you put the ball in play on an off day is key. Also, have fun this summer, I didn't realize no one played in WA during December/January... I guess it gets a bit warmer in Perth than it does in Melbourne! oh, we sure play in Dec & Jan, the penant season is in winter, that's what I meant by off season in the summer.......and yes, as you know, Perth gets pretty hot......... I've hit most of the popular Fujis and I like them, the ZCom I find is very forgiving, I've made some awful awful moves at the ball and although the flight will then turn out skanky, im in the middle, well toward the green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4Golf Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) What an article and am very impressed how they dedicated so much time and energy into a test. It will have a lot more reading by a broad audience than a 2-3 page short version that would show up in the US magazines. Great job translating things!! Are there any launch monitor numbers posted anywhere in the article? Regards, Todd All4Golf Edited October 30, 2007 by All4Golf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Are any launch monitor numbers posted anywhere in the article?Regards, Todd All4Golf Sorry Todd, all the testing for this one was done outdoors at a country club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4Golf Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Sorry Todd, all the testing for this one was done outdoors at a country club. Thanks for the quick confirmation. I'm sure if something does come up and covers that angle, please do give me a PM for an exclusive summary post here on TSG. Todd All4Golf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgooch Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Thanks Gocchin for the great article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyser Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 What are these MOI numbers? Is it horizontal MOI and the higher number is it not the hosel MOI(which means you want a LOW number, hot a high one!). There is no measurement for vertical MOI is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Hi there, yes the article says it is MOI measured left to right, or from side to side so horizontal. As for the neck MOI, wouldn't you want higher as higher MOI equates to less twisting? Forgive me as I am still trying to grasp the whole MOI phenomena myself (^_^). There is no vertical MOI numbers in this spefcific test but I do have several test somewhere around here where all retail drivers were meaured on a single machine top to bottom.... gotta dig that out. (^_^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyser Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 It would be AWESOME if you could post(or email me) ANY tests you have, I´d love that info. Haven´t seen any veritcal MOI measurements ever done on the drivers. Too bad they didn´t have the L4V Cobra in the test, I´d love to see the numbers on that. I also found it interresting seeing the CG placement in the drivers, the Sumo seems to have a pretty high one, and strangely not that deep with the high MOI.. wonder how that´s possible. Please post or email me any and all tests you have... is it possible to subscribe to those mags? A high vertical(x-axis) MOI is good, but usually with it comes a high neck/hosel MOI, that´s not so good. That´s simply a measurement of how much force it takes to turn/close the driver head. The higher the number, the harder it is to square the driver. That´s why many hit their huge headed drivers to the right, the much higher hosel MOI than their other clubs makes them leave it open. It´s not great for many players and a nightmare for slicers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSport Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 To make the test more robust statistically, the sample size should be at least 30. So 10 shots per driver did not suffice. The results are to me still within tight statistical tolerance so in fact we can conclude there is not much too choose between say the top 8. Say 2 yards difference for 270 yards average is negligible. But again this list does not take into account different swing styles of the testers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted December 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Well for the final testers 10 shots probably could suffice considering they are all pro level players and great driver strikers. For me I'd probably need 50 shots but with two off the testers being of the Japanese pro tour, 10 would probably be not bad. Yeah it would be very tough to take into account the swing style of testers... even in the early rounds its possible many drivers were eliminated just because they didn't fit the initial testers swing. Still a good overall read for a general golf magazine. (^_^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSport Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Still a good overall read for a general golf magazine. (^_^) Definitely a useful reading. Thank you for translating it. It helps me narrow down my choices when I need a new conforming driver. I am surprised Beres was eliminated that early. Honma previously quite good at distances. Competition had caught up. What is Yamaha's stock shaft by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted December 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Definitely a useful reading. Thank you for translating it. It helps me narrow down my choices when I need a new conforming driver. I am surprised Beres was eliminated that early. Honma previously quite good at distances. Competition had caught up.What is Yamaha's stock shaft by the way? Definitely technology has changed! Beres is still considered nice for prestige and quality, but it's no longer one of the longer ones. (^_^) One thing I did think of though, even though the test did not take into account the swing styles of players, we actually can make some good observations based on the results and the individual players and their swing speeds. Even though the Yamaha won overall, it was not the best driver for every tester. Each tester had their own best three... I swing around the lady pro's speed (^_^) which is why I was paying more attention to her results specifically. Yamaha has their own proprietary shaft, the Yamaha DX-507D a double kick point shaft that kicks at the midpoint and butt, for a mid and high kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleAA Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 That post wore me out, Bro, I feel tired for you, great read and thank you for being diligent in getting it to us. GREAT POST!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsg4tch Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 No golf club test matches Japanese golf magazine's reviews for fairness and in-depth analysis. When do the magazines start printing tests of 2008 drivers/clubs??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
advan038 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Gocchin Thankyou very much for such valuable infomation. I love the way how Japanese test their products. Keep up with the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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