Trying to get Epon's right...may have the answer

[bjp1]

I bought a custom set of Epon AF-301 irons with my TSG screen name engraved on the sole. I thought these would be the last irons I'd buy, at least for awhile. Well after high anxiety, usual waiting period they arrive. Guess what? I hated the way they felt. Personally, I was expecting something similar to the X-Forged feel, if not better. Didn't happen.

So I've been tinkering with the 5i with my favorite shafts, trying to find the one that's going to "feel" and play the way I like. I went DGS200 (120g) originally, and played my favorite Wishon Series 5 (110g) steel for a couple of rounds. My clubbuilder suggested going ultralight because he found his other customer's with Japan-spec equipment all got better results from ultralights mated to the heads they played. He suggested trying Nippon, but I was already familiar with that option, and knew I could come back to it. He also suggested True Temper's GS75 (sub-80g) steel shafts.

Well, I tried the True Temper GS75 S200, hardstepped once, and it's a really nice, stable shaft. Surprisely better than I expected, especially on stability. It's seems alot like Ping ZZ65 shaft to me, slightly softer. Most important to me, the shaft completely changed the feel of the Epon head. Just lovely!!

I haven't changed the other shafts yet, but will do so within the next few weeks. I found it interesting that a post on GolfWRX from poster, True Temper, who is employed by TT, read as follows about the GS75: "GS 75 was originally designed for TM Japan...Tip and butt flexible it is a great alternative to graphite irons." My clubbuilder, at one time, suggested that I could use graphite due to my tempo. Maybe this is the reason these feel great.

Has anyone on TSG demoed or played these shafts for an extended period of time? How do these play in shorter irons?

Thanks for your feedback.

Brian

Edited October 31, 2007 by bjp1

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Its interesting how it plays out but shafts really do make a difference in feel, Find a shaft that you have tried in a soft iron feel you enjoy and insert that into the Epon to see if anything changes. The better a shaft fits you or your swing profile the better it should feel. That said not all shafts that you hit well will have a better feel. If it don't work out then you may want to try a different set of clubs.

[idrive]

It has been my experience that the TT 200 - 300 shafts do not provide any club with a great feel. For me the S200's - 300's are okay but that's about it.

However, the TT Black Golds, to me, feel great. I like that I seem to get great consistancy out of them as well. I have not played the GS shaft so I cannot comment on them, but I would suggest giving the Black Gold Shafts a try for comparison unless you just plain ol prefer a light weight shaft.

Good Luck. I still believe your Epons matched with the right shaft for you will provide you the feel and performance you are expecting.

[gocchin]

Brian I think you are on to something here... I love the lightweight shafts and everyone knows that... I use 65-75g graphite iron shafts and I let tons of people hit my epons and they are all shocked at how wonderful the feel is... a high quality lightweight shaft with feel matched with Epon's forged head. I tell them too, I'm 100% certain it's the shaft and head combo complimenting each other.

My fitter put Project X 6.0's in his AF-301, also found them harsher than what he expected... switched to Nippon 1050's and a world of difference... the feel returned and he's happy once again. The shaft makes a major impact.

Sometimes it's really a lot of experimenting which, yes is not cheap, I had Axiv graphite in my ViQ's earlier this year... great match... put them into my g-Field CCB-1's... ugh... lost the feel.

[bjp1]

Brian I think you are on to something here... I love the lightweight shafts and everyone knows that... I use 65-75g graphite iron shafts and I let tons of people hit my epons and they are all shocked at how wonderful the feel is... a high quality lightweight shaft with feel matched with Epon's forged head. I tell them too, I'm 100% certain it's the shaft and head combo complimenting each other.

My fitter put Project X 6.0's in his AF-301, also found them harsher than what he expected... switched to Nippon 1050's and a world of difference... the feel returned and he's happy once again. The shaft makes a major impact.

Sometimes it's really a lot of experimenting which, yes is not cheap, I had Axiv graphite in my ViQ's earlier this year... great match... put them into my g-Field CCB-1's... ugh... lost the feel.

I'm really encouraged by the 301/GS75 combination. It's very playable and stable. I don't feel like I'm giving up anything over a heavier weight, because I'm still able to take my normal swing without the feeling of overswinging. I'm not sure where the swingweight ended up, but its good as is.

I'm going to reshaft a short-iron next to work on getting the right balance and swingweight. As you stated, the experimenting isn't cheap, particularly because I don't do my own work. The GS75 isn't cheap steel either!

I like where this is going!

Brian

[Spoon]

It has been my experience that the TT 200 - 300 shafts do not provide any club with a great feel. For me the S200's - 300's are okay but that's about it.

However, the TT Black Golds, to me, feel great. I like that I seem to get great consistancy out of them as well. I have not played the GS shaft so I cannot comment on them, but I would suggest giving the Black Gold Shafts a try for comparison unless you just plain ol prefer a light weight shaft.

Good Luck. I still believe your Epons matched with the right shaft for you will provide you the feel and performance you are expecting.

i agree with idrive. i have a multitude of epon irons all shafted with all sort of shafts: nspro 950, 1050, 1150, tc r3 even project x 6.0 but my favorite is the black golds. it is not harsh at all and imho mates well with the epon heads. the shafts are so lively. do give them a try if you get the chance

[bogeydog]

I have had the black golds installed in the 301s now for about 1.5 months. I like them better every day. They are very stable. Feel is very good. I am playing great golf with these.

i agree with idrive. i have a multitude of epon irons all shafted with all sort of shafts: nspro 950, 1050, 1150, tc r3 even project x 6.0 but my favorite is the black golds. it is not harsh at all and imho mates well with the epon heads. the shafts are so lively. do give them a try if you get the chance

[ajaykkr]

If i recall right, the first shaft he had was the Black golds.....

IMO, the nippon 1150 is a great shaft....another is the tour concept ...Blackgolds for me were so so...

[Spoon]

B,

any new developments with your af301 shaft problem?

[bjp1]

B,

any new developments with your af301 shaft problem?

I'm having the entire set reshafted with GS75 steel. I won't put them in play until next Thursday.

bp

[bjp1]

Just a quick update to say that the AF301's are firmly seated in the bag. Getting the right head/shaft combination took a bit of work, so these never really saw any play since being purchased. I've come somewhat full circle in that I ordered these with DGS200 and didn't like them at all. Several reshafts later, they are now shafted with DGSL300 and I love them!

The difference is a better feel. Swing and clubweight that is better balanced and easier to control. Distances are consistent. This is what I had anticipated. A few sets later, including custom Mizzy's, Scratch AR-1's, and RC Blades, and I'm back to where the high-end hoing started...Epon. They are worth getting right.

Brian

[wmclarenf1]

Good to know that you found a shaft that feels better in the head. Don;t mean to put a damper on but the shaft profile (bend point etc) to me is more important for what fits your swing. If you liked the S200 and heavier shafts that tend to to have a lower trajectory and spin etc than light weight shafts, I hope the actual playing profile of the GS 75 will fit your swing as well as it feels.

[bjp1]

Good to know that you found a shaft that feels better in the head. Don;t mean to put a damper on but the shaft profile (bend point etc) to me is more important for what fits your swing. If you liked the S200 and heavier shafts that tend to to have a lower trajectory and spin etc than light weight shafts, I hope the actual playing profile of the GS 75 will fit your swing as well as it feels.

My experience and intentions with every club is to achieve a certain feel in the clubhead and to find a shaft that accentuates that feel. Sometimes I get a performance match, sometimes I don't. I find 100-115 gram, stiff flex, high-bend steel shafts to perform best for my swing, but that hasn't guaranteed a match for performance and feel.

Example, I felt the same excitement about PX HL 6.0 in the Epon head, which is a different profile from DGSL300. Nonetheless is accentuated the feel and performed consistently. I just didn't have a full set of those shafts laying around.

So for me, shaft profile is a consideration and good start, but not a guarantee for performance and feel. I started with DGS200 because they fit my profile. But, they did not fit for "feel" in the Epon head.

Brian

[idrive]

Just a quick update to say that the AF301's are firmly seated in the bag. Several reshafts later, they are now shafted with DGSL300 and I love them!

Really glad to hear this.

Congrats!!!!

[robbie]

If anybody is seriously interested in trying out a set of Epon Type S with AXIV shafts (firm flex) hit me up !!!!

[coops1967]

Example, I felt the same excitement about PX HL 6.0 in the Epon head, which is a different profile from DGSL300. Nonetheless is accentuated the feel and performed consistently. I just didn't have a full set of those shafts laying around.

Brian

Those ProjX HL may be the reason why i bought my black epon 301's!! - i tried the 7 iron 301 with ProjX hl and was stunned by the feel of them. (I played Mizuno TP21's for 8 years etc etc and they were with rifle shafts....) But was put off by the HL tag - high launch?! And having great things about the original X ... and having a source of old original satin stock X.... well - here's a review of my 301 irons with Project X 6.0's

Wondering about FST/KB tour shafts - the main Rifle designer is now with them... google fst golf shaft and rad for yourself... anyway -

It's been a long time since I got the black irons in hand... but was away for work then training then... well, anyway. First round was on Sunday.

From practicing before, can tell the clubheads have very decent forgiveness - i started by hitting them way off towards the toe. Very easy to see on these irons - no need for impact tape.... some were half off the end of the face grooves :shock: , but direction & distance on an otherwise (!) reasonable swing was not drastically affected.

At least I wasn't shanking them, eh.

After remembering the Tour Tempo stuff and getting some kind of rhythm found the clubs to be great - and over the round played fairly ok on a round I usually get killed on - kind of shortish and narrow with absurd amounts of water on both sides of fairways and the like.

Project X shafts - i'm an old Rifle fan, but previously used only the 'regular' Rifle shaft - and found them very nice and comfortable, and spent years before I knew what the 6.5 on the shaft label meant. So was keen to find out how these highly rated shafts were..... they're 6.0 flex and satin finish (old pre TT stock). Now having said that.... these feel horrendous on a bad swing :oops: , of which there were plenty to start with. The actual result of a bad swing is perhaps not all that bad, compared to a 'regular' shaft but a bad swing will feel really really bad - that's my impression, curious how others have found these shafts to play. A good swing feels fine - would say a standard Rifle may feel smoother - but the performance/trajectory when swung well is as noticeably excellent as the 'feedback' on a bad swing is shocking. Will be sticking with them for a good while yet - feel they could help improve my swing.

Driver - the G10 12deg with Prolaunch Red. Had a sudden attack of common sense and decided to swing it choked down an inch or so - ie around 44 1/2".... much, much better than 45 3/4" as far as my swing goes. Will be keeping this shaft, and have ordered a Roddio 7WA to install at 44 1/2". Will get on a launch monitor with the PL red before and the roddio after to see how it affects the numbers - the roddio is meant to be v low spin so should go well with a 12 degree head, i hope :roll:

At the shoppe also left 2 putters (Rife Dana & Scotty Studio #5) and a Mizuno MP-003 driver for sale...... so didn't feel too guilty about picking up a replacement putter :mrgreen:

Nice weight (350g head), finish and feel. An Odyseey Black series #9

Coops

[bogeydog]

Those ProjX HL may be the reason why i bought my black epon 301's!! - i tried the 7 iron 301 with ProjX hl and was stunned by the feel of them. (I played Mizuno TP21's for 8 years etc etc and they were with rifle shafts....) But was put off by the HL tag - high launch?! And having great things about the original X ... and having a source of old original satin stock X.... well - here's a review of my 301 irons with Project X 6.0's

Wondering about FST/KB tour shafts - the main Rifle designer is now with them... google fst golf shaft and rad for yourself... anyway -

It's been a long time since I got the black irons in hand... but was away for work then training then... well, anyway. First round was on Sunday.

From practicing before, can tell the clubheads have very decent forgiveness - i started by hitting them way off towards the toe. Very easy to see on these irons - no need for impact tape.... some were half off the end of the face grooves :shock: , but direction & distance on an otherwise (!) reasonable swing was not drastically affected.

At least I wasn't shanking them, eh.

After remembering the Tour Tempo stuff and getting some kind of rhythm found the clubs to be great - and over the round played fairly ok on a round I usually get killed on - kind of shortish and narrow with absurd amounts of water on both sides of fairways and the like.

Project X shafts - i'm an old Rifle fan, but previously used only the 'regular' Rifle shaft - and found them very nice and comfortable, and spent years before I knew what the 6.5 on the shaft label meant. So was keen to find out how these highly rated shafts were..... they're 6.0 flex and satin finish (old pre TT stock). Now having said that.... these feel horrendous on a bad swing :oops: , of which there were plenty to start with. The actual result of a bad swing is perhaps not all that bad, compared to a 'regular' shaft but a bad swing will feel really really bad - that's my impression, curious how others have found these shafts to play. A good swing feels fine - would say a standard Rifle may feel smoother - but the performance/trajectory when swung well is as noticeably excellent as the 'feedback' on a bad swing is shocking. Will be sticking with them for a good while yet - feel they could help improve my swing.

Driver - the G10 12deg with Prolaunch Red. Had a sudden attack of common sense and decided to swing it choked down an inch or so - ie around 44 1/2".... much, much better than 45 3/4" as far as my swing goes. Will be keeping this shaft, and have ordered a Roddio 7WA to install at 44 1/2". Will get on a launch monitor with the PL red before and the roddio after to see how it affects the numbers - the roddio is meant to be v low spin so should go well with a 12 degree head, i hope :roll:

At the shoppe also left 2 putters (Rife Dana & Scotty Studio #5) and a Mizuno MP-003 driver for sale...... so didn't feel too guilty about picking up a replacement putter :mrgreen:

Nice weight (350g head), finish and feel. An Odyseey Black series #9

Coops

In regards to the KB Tour shafts, I have had them in my Yamaha Tour irons for many months now. Still the best feeling performing shaft I have ever had. Not even a close second. Yes I also have the #9 Odyssey putter. Extremely nice feel and performance.

[myu3777]

I alos just had KB Tour in Miura CB301 for about 2 rounds. So far it had proved to be both stable and long. Feel wise, I still feel its bit little harder than I like but maybe thats due to playing graphite shaft the past 2 years.