Vega RAF-CM Raw Limited and RAF-CM Blade

[froggy10]

Since Yururi has gone the way side ... any chance the Vega RAF-CM Raw Limited and RAF-CM Blade will make it into the Pro Shop?

[gocchin]

Since Yururi has gone the way side ... any chance the Vega RAF-CM Raw Limited and RAF-CM Blade will make it into the Pro Shop?

Sure they will make there way in this week! (^_^)

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Since Yururi has gone the way side ... any chance the Vega RAF-CM Raw Limited and RAF-CM Blade will make it into the Pro Shop?

So you want to go from one catalog head to another?

The Vega RAF-CM Raw Limited is 100% the same club as the Yururi Flat Back.

The RAF-CM is the same as the Yururi Prototype.

Even their new limited CB and the RAFC1 have been around since more than 5 years ago.

If your going to pay top dollar why not get an original design?

[Richmond Golfer]

So you want to go from one catalog head to another?

The Vega RAF-CM Raw Limited is 100% the same club as the Yururi Flat Back.

The RAF-CM is the same as the Yururi Prototype.

Even their new limited CB and the RAFC1 have been around since more than 5 years ago.

If your going to pay top dollar why not get an original design?

What would you recommend instead, similar but an original design?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

What would you recommend instead, similar but an original design?

There are so many we can recommend that are not only original design but they are also made a heck of a lot better in regards to materials and manufacturing. Pick a good looking head to your eye, make sure its made by Endo or another top notch factory. Go get fitted and apply those custom specs to the set you select.

It really depends on what you desire, some people want blades others CB's etc..

[froggy10]

Ok, then help me out a little here...

Who would have the original design of this head that both Yururi and Vega (plus others?) are putting out?

Would they be in a position to produce a set in this raw finish?

I've looked and looked and this is the design I like. That's why I even went through the trouble or first getting some of those Yururi raw wedges to try out the look and feel. I know irons will be different etc., but I think getting the wedges convinced me.

So I want this design (I love the angles, top line, etc.) and in this finish. Better materials would be even better. I love the Yururi stamp in Japanese, but ... I'll be fine to not have that if I can get this set from the orignal designer.

Any suggestions?

So you want to go from one catalog head to another?

The Vega RAF-CM Raw Limited is 100% the same club as the Yururi Flat Back.

The RAF-CM is the same as the Yururi Prototype.

Even their new limited CB and the RAFC1 have been around since more than 5 years ago.

If your going to pay top dollar why not get an original design?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Ok, then help me out a little here...

Who would have the original design of this head that both Yururi and Vega (plus others?) are putting out?

Would they be in a position to produce a set in this raw finish?

I've looked and looked and this is the design I like. That's why I even went through the trouble or first getting some of those Yururi raw wedges to try out the look and feel. I know irons will be different etc., but I think getting the wedges convinced me.

So I want this design (I love the angles, top line, etc.) and in this finish. Better materials would be even better. I love the Yururi stamp in Japanese, but ... I'll be fine to not have that if I can get this set from the orignal designer.

Any suggestions?

These are open model heads, it doesn't matter who you buy it from when everyone is sharing this design.

If you really like the design of the club then get it, open model or not at least you will get what you want.

It also doesn't matter who had it first, they are all the same. What I am saying is open model product should be in the 400-800 range not the 1k+ range.

I mean look at GeoTech they can sell what some brands sell at 1200 bucks for only 350 with 10pcs instead of 8 AND there is profit built in.

That is the type of product your getting when you go with catalog heads. They are pricing their product based on what the market will pay not what they are actually worth.

Think about it they charge original design product prices, the profit they make doesn't go into R&D or producing better product & technology when all they need to do is open the catalog and pick a head for their logo to be stamped on.

The essence of a great company is to improve and produce new technologies and idea's along with quality original product. Not make the easiest product possible, make the most possible, and continue to do so without ever creating something of their own.

Here is something that may effect how people think, Miura, Vega, Kyoei product, Hiro Matsumoto, Zodia, Scratch and many many others are all using the same RAW heads and simply grinding them differently. Don't get me wrong you can still shoot low scores and I really like Miura product but should people feel happy about that?

What if the Auto industry was using the same car frame and motor and just making the body and paint look different and opted not to mention it to the consumers?

Thats the thing, you got the same open model head selling for 350 as the one going for 1200 but really what are you getting that is different besides a few grind adjustments and a different logo?

That is why you will see no sharp edge tooling and lots of rounded dull corners, no drastic tech or mateiral changes, they need to find the CG with a peg, instead of knowing where it will be through measurements and CAD. Not all heads are identical when you got a hand grind line as well.

Big brands in USDM land and JDM land know the value of original designs, you will never see Callaway, Titleist, Bridgestone, and others ever using pre made blanks.

[froggy10]

I appreciate the feedback. Helpful to understand and know.

You know ... two other options I was looking into were the GeoTech Prototype N-16 blades and the KZG Forged ZO blades. Both minimalist blades. The KZGs can be finished in satin and have had some good feedback.

Other than those two, I've found the other blades just a little too "busy" for my taste (e.g. Miura Giken MB-5003, TourStage X-Blade, Fourteen TB-1000).

Thoughts on the GeoTech N-16 and KZG ZO blades?

These are open model heads, it doesn't matter who you buy it from when everyone is sharing this design.

If you really like the design of the club then get it, open model or not at least you will get what you want.

It also doesn't matter who had it first, they are all the same. What I am saying is open model product should be in the 400-800 range not the 1k+ range.

I mean look at GeoTech they can sell what some brands sell at 1200 bucks for only 350 with 10pcs instead of 8 AND there is profit built in.

That is the type of product your getting when you go with catalog heads. They are pricing their product based on what the market will pay not what they are actually worth.

Think about it they charge original design product prices, the profit they make doesn't go into R&D or producing better product & technology when all they need to do is open the catalog and pick a head for their logo to be stamped on.

The essence of a great company is to improve and produce new technologies and idea's along with quality original product. Not make the easiest product possible, make the most possible, and continue to do so without ever creating something of their own.

Here is something that may effect how people think, Miura, Vega, Kyoei product, Hiro Matsumoto, Zodia, Scratch and many many others are all using the same RAW heads and simply grinding them differently. Don't get me wrong you can still shoot low scores and I really like Miura product but should people feel happy about that?

What if the Auto industry was using the same car frame and motor and just making the body and paint look different and opted not to mention it to the consumers?

Thats the thing, you got the same open model head selling for 350 as the one going for 1200 but really what are you getting that is different besides a few grind adjustments and a different logo?

That is why you will see no sharp edge tooling and lots of rounded dull corners, no drastic tech or mateiral changes, they need to find the CG with a peg, instead of knowing where it will be through measurements and CAD. Not all heads are identical when you got a hand grind line as well.

Big brands in USDM land and JDM land know the value of original designs, you will never see Callaway, Titleist, Bridgestone, and others ever using pre made blanks.

[Duffer19]

Surely the Miura 5003 blade is not an open catalog heads?

[froggy10]

Or maybe I just wait and see how those Epon blades are going to look like that are supposed to come out at the end of the year...

[GT2008]

Does this mean you are or aren't going to be able to supply the limited edition Vega RAF-CM RAW?

I thought there were only 25 numbered sets made and they were all sold? I take it that is incorrect and TSG can indeed supply these irons?

[golf 37]

Does this mean you are or aren't going to be able to supply the limited edition Vega RAF-CM RAW?

I thought there were only 25 numbered sets made and they were all sold? I take it that is incorrect and TSG can indeed supply these irons?

You should check with www.vega-golf.com, I have been told that there are only 25 sets of each limited edition model.

I must say that the clubs I have from Vega are extremely good (irons and wedges, not the woods). I play a high standard of amateur golf and have played many of the JDM irons. So far the Vega's are the best feedback club that I have hit. I really don't care how old the model is but the L&L are perfect and the feel is fantasic. I wouldn't however use the woods, mainly because Epon are so good in this area and I don't see any better option on the market.

Whilst we are on the subject on open head models, are we going to start trashing "Gold's Factory" putters next because the design is old!!, I really hope not since I believe they are the best putters around but it is the same argument.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

You should check with www.vega-golf.com, I have been told that there are only 25 sets of each limited edition model.

I must say that the clubs I have from Vega are extremely good (irons and wedges, not the woods). I play a high standard of amateur golf and have played many of the JDM irons. So far the Vega's are the best feedback club that I have hit. I really don't care how old the model is but the L&L are perfect and the feel is fantasic. I wouldn't however use the woods, mainly because Epon are so good in this area and I don't see any better option on the market.

Whilst we are on the subject on open head models, are we going to start trashing "Gold's Factory" putters next because the design is old!!, I really hope not since I believe they are the best putters around but it is the same argument.

Yes Anser designs are old like Ping, Scotty Cameron, and so many others but so is the game of golf, so are titanium woods and so are 56* wedges, i have no issue with that but it has nothing to do with Catalog heads.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

You should check with www.vega-golf.com, I have been told that there are only 25 sets of each limited edition model.

I must say that the clubs I have from Vega are extremely good (irons and wedges, not the woods). I play a high standard of amateur golf and have played many of the JDM irons. So far the Vega's are the best feedback club that I have hit. I really don't care how old the model is but the L&L are perfect and the feel is fantasic. I wouldn't however use the woods, mainly because Epon are so good in this area and I don't see any better option on the market.

Whilst we are on the subject on open head models, are we going to start trashing "Gold's Factory" putters next because the design is old!!, I really hope not since I believe they are the best putters around but it is the same argument.

Same thing was said about Yururi Proto's, only 55 made, well guess what they ran 150 more sets when they sold out of those and didn't tell us until we accounted for more than 55 sets sold. Talk about honest eh.

25 sets of anything doesn't mean it isn't an open model. They could produce only 1 and it would still be a catalog blank.

My point is that people are paying 1200- 1400+ on stuff that should cost less than half that. The consumer truly thinks they have something special in hand when in reality its just something small brands do to spit out a new product without doing the R&D or paying for setup and tooling costs. If they were to produce an original design out of custom material forgings it will cost hundreds of thousands more and perhaps a million+

MB5003 is in no way an open model head, but starts off as the same pre ground raw heads that so many others use. FYI the MB5003's are my gamers most of the season, love them!

In the near future TSG will be selling custom catalog heads at honest prices, we have no problem with the heads themselves we only have a problem with brands passing it off as new stuff and selling it as if it is original. Worse part is they do their best to cover up the fact that they are the same models that other brands have. Some brands even call the grinding house the foundry when it really isn't.

So really does vega making only 25 sets mean anything when other brands have already had the same exact head with a different stamping released for over a year. Vega ( kyoei's) trend is to adjust the grind of models they sold to other companies, change the stamping and and brand it as their own.

[golf 37]

Same thing was said about Yururi Proto's, only 55 made, well guess what they ran 150 more sets when they sold out of those and didn't tell us until we accounted for more than 55 sets sold. Talk about honest eh.

25 sets of anything doesn't mean it isn't an open model. They could produce only 1 and it would still be a catalog blank.

My point is that people are paying 1200- 1400+ on stuff that should cost less than half that. The consumer truly thinks they have something special in hand when in reality its just something small brands do to spit out a new product without doing the R&D or paying for setup and tooling costs. If they were to produce an original design out of custom material forgings it will cost hundreds of thousands more and perhaps a million+

MB5003 is in no way an open model head, but starts off as the same pre ground raw heads that so many others use. FYI the MB5003's are my gamers most of the season, love them!

In the near future TSG will be selling custom catalog heads at honest prices, we have no problem with the heads themselves we only have a problem with brands passing it off as new stuff and selling it as if it is original. Worse part is they do their best to cover up the fact that they are the same models that other brands have. Some brands even call the grinding house the foundry when it really isn't.

So really does vega making only 25 sets mean anything when other brands have already had the same exact head with a different stamping released for over a year. Vega ( kyoei's) trend is to adjust the grind of models they sold to other companies, change the stamping and and brand it as their own.

So can you let me if this is an open model head, I must admit that I havent seen anything that looks like this. However, you guy's might know different.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

So can you let me if this is an open model head, I must admit that I havent seen anything that looks like this. However, you guy's might know different.

That one is not an open model head sir.

[froggy10]

I'm comparing more and more and why does it seem like the look and shape of the following are exactly the same ... could they all be open model heads:

- Mizuno MP-33

- Scratch SB-1

- KZG ZO

... and of course the Yururis and Vegas.

That it just comes down to the finishing?

That one is not an open model head sir.

[mgui]

I like the comments on original open head design, I think it is a good honest opinion ... could someone advise me a forgiving mid-high handicapper iron and wedge head (brand and model) that is original design?

[csv]

I'm comparing more and more and why does it seem like the look and shape of the following are exactly the same ... could they all be open model heads:

- Mizuno MP-33

- Scratch SB-1

- KZG ZO

... and of course the Yururis and Vegas.

That it just comes down to the finishing?

Those are not "OPEN MODEL HEADS". Miura forges their own heads.

Kyoei forges Vega as their own line and KZG also comes out of their foundry along with a few other small brands.

The Endo foundry produces Epon heads and I've just learned that they also make heads for Mizuno.

I have hit Mizuno, Miura, Vega and Epon and I can tell you that each brand has a distinctly different feel. I have not hit Scratch irons yet.

I'm pretty sure this info is correct. If not please correct me.

Edited December 15, 2009 by csv

[gocchin]

Those are not "OPEN MODEL HEADS". Miura forges their own heads.

Kyoei forges Vega as their own line and KZG also comes out of their foundry along with a few other small brands.

The Endo foundry produces Epon heads and I've just learned that they also make heads for Mizuno.

I have hit Mizuno, Miura, Vega and Epon and I can tell you that each brand has a distinctly different feel. I have not hit Scratch irons yet.

I'm pretty sure this info is correct. If not please correct me.

You're pretty much correct. Endo also forges and has forged many other brands including Callaway, Titleist, Cobra, Nike, Yamaha, Tourstage, Fourteen, PRGR, S-Yard, and others to name a few, presently or at one time or another....