NiftyNiblick Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 While checking out the Fourteen website, I notice that their fairway woods do not share the common JDM characteristic of being excessively upright. I was always curious why JDM fairwoods were so upright when most of the irons are, happily in my eyes, a degree or two flatter than American OEM standards. It doesn't matter so much in the irons, of course, because they are easily ordered with custom lies. With the fairwayas, it's not so easy. I hope that Fourteen is successful with their fairway wood line and that other JDMs will follow suit with flatter offerings. Of course, the entire issue could be resolved if adjustable hosels became the standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 While checking out the Fourteen website, I notice that their fairway woods do not share the common JDM characteristic of being excessively upright. I was always curious why JDM fairwoods were so upright when most of the irons are, happily in my eyes, a degree or two flatter than American OEM standards. It doesn't matter so much in the irons, of course, because they are easily ordered with custom lies. With the fairwayas, it's not so easy. I hope that Fourteen is successful with their fairway wood line and that other JDMs will follow suit with flatter offerings. Of course, the entire issue could be resolved if adjustable hosels became the standard. Adjustable hosel's are too heavy. Some OEMs will say otherwise but I know the factories that produce most of the hosels that are adjustable and almost all of the adapters to fit shafts in with no epoxy and all are heavier than what OEM's claim by almost double. When you add 8-10 grams at the neck not to mention upper heel side of a wood that is only 200 grams you just changed the dynamic and CG of the club. Upright fairway woods and hybrids are a modern trend that is widely used on the USPGA tour. Fourteen is actually a little bit behind on this and Im expecting to see them increase the upright lie angle in their woods. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 well for me, being 6'3",. I like the more upright lie in the FW's, for me, it's a bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer19 Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 I was always curious why JDM fairwoods were so upright when most of the irons are, happily in my eyes, a degree or two flatter than American OEM standards. It doesn't matter so much in the irons, of course, because they are easily ordered with custom lies. With the fairwayas, it's not so easy. Here are just a small representative samples of JDM and American OEM standards 5 iron lie: Fourteen TC550 forged 60.5* Tourstage X-Drive 701G 61 All Epon 61 Callaway X-Forged USDM 61 TM TP 60.5 Nike Red forged split 61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Upright fairway woods and hybrids are a modern trend that is widely used on the USPGA tour. Fourteen is actually a little bit behind on this and Im expecting to see them increase the upright lie angle in their woods.Just my 2 cents. Most of you are younger than I and didn't play for decades with persimmon, laminated maple, and first generation metalwoods that still used wooden club lie angle to length correlations. Thus you cannot appreciate the extent to which I loathe upright fairway metalwoods. It is entirely possible that bendable hosels are less than ideal from the standpoint of certain dynamic considerations. I defer to your expertise in that regard. Not one of those compromises, however, would be as annoying to me as upright lie angles which I hate with a seething purple passion! If I'm fit correctly, I'll hit the ball better--period. This website's proshop is filled with absolutely gorgeous fairway woods with excellent workmanship, superb materials, cutting edge technology, and specs that would make me hook them like I was walking Times Square at 3 am. It's not my fault than an entire generation of golfers have learned to play with the toes of their woods pointing to the sky. It's just not my game. In the event that there's somebody out there who shares my issues in this regard, I just thought that I'd point out the Fourteens. They're something that you guys sell in the way of high end, high quality fairway woods which people with a flat swing like mine could actually hit. Anyway, my generation will soon be dead and the JDMs and American OEMs will be able to ignore us without complaints! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Here are just a small representative samples of JDM and American OEM standards 5 iron lie:Fourteen TC550 forged 60.5* Tourstage X-Drive 701G 61 All Epon 61 Callaway X-Forged USDM 61 TM TP 60.5 Nike Red forged split 61 My MC-102s vs. Titleist AP-2 ....#3 --#4 ---#5 --#6 #-7 --#8 --#9-- PW Lie.. 59.0 59.5 60.0 60.5 61.0 61.5 62.0 62.5 .......60.0 61.0 62.0 62.5 63.0 63.5 64.0 64.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrive Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Not one of those compromises, however, would be as annoying to me as upright lie angles which I hate with a seething purple passion! If I'm fit correctly, I'll hit the ball better--period.In the event that there's somebody out there who shares my issues in this regard, I just thought that I'd point out the Fourteens. They're something that you guys sell in the way of high end, high quality fairway woods which people with a flat swing like mine could actually hit. I've been saying for quite awhile now that the Fourteen FW's are much flatter than everyone else. It is why I am hitting their 3 wood. Had Epon not custom built (bent 2+* flatter) the FW's I got from them I would be hitting Fourteen FW's exclusively. If I were needing a new FW right now I would be purchasing a Fourteen for no other reason than the lie angle. FWIW, the Fourteen FW's are excellent clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 now I am curious..I play with the PRGR M3 Tour Profile because of the very fact it is 2 dgree flatter lie angle. However, I cant find anywhere the actual lie angle of the 3 wood. The Fourteen 3 wood says lie angle is 56.5. Anyone know what the lie angle is for the PRGR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Just noticed in the pro shop PRGR is also 56.5!! Head size on the Fourteen is a little bigger. I dont think you can go wrong with either fairway wood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yes the PRGR M3 Hit Tour are also very flat at 56.5 for the 3 wood... an awesome wood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer19 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yes the PRGR M3 Hit Tour are also very flat at 56.5 for the 3 wood... an awesome wood! T: Any idea of the lie angle of TR-X 505 Preimum Red 16.5* 4 wood (that I've just acquired)? I dont think it is listed at the web catalogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 T:Any idea of the lie angle of TR-X 505 Preimum Red 16.5* 4 wood (that I've just acquired)? I dont think it is listed at the web catalogue. Is PRGR calling it a 4-wood now, Duff? Mine was labeled a 16.5° 3-wood. With that particular design, the lie angle is less important. It's got a real rocker sole that sets up nice for most anyone. I couldn't hit it well. Don't know why. I loved how it looked. I felt confident with it until I hit enough mediocre shots. The guy who bought it from me really stripes it and calls it the best fairway wood he's ever owned. In any case, I hate upright lie angles and didn't find that lie uncomfortable at all; even if it was upright, it didn't play excessively upright. I bet that you'll hit it much better than I did and enjoy it a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer19 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 It is labeled a 3 wood but I look at it as a 4 wood. I hit the recently constructed 19.5* Geotech hybrid so far, I have not hit the PRGR once during the last two rounds. I might take out my trusty RC CV pro 14* to replace the 16.5* soon. BTW, I would be posting in the BST section (hopefully tonight) your favorite Kenneth Smith driver for sale and please do not ask me about the lie angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) It is labeled a 3 wood but I look at it as a 4 wood. I hit the recently constructed 19.5* Geotech hybrid so far, I have not hit the PRGR once during the last two rounds. I might take out my trusty RC CV pro 14* to replace the 16.5* soon. BTW, I would be posting in the BST section (hopefully tonight) your favorite Kenneth Smith driver for sale and please do not ask me about the lie angle. If you're a 13 and are hitting 14° fairway woods, that's something. I'm an 11 at age sixty-three, but was an 8 or 9 most of my adult life and briefly a 7 at my very best. I NEVER hit anything anything under 16° from the highway. Most of my drivers have been 12 or 13°, even when I was younger. You must have a nice, upright swing, plenty of swingspeed, and not a lot of hit fairways from which you can smash those strong lofted fairway woods! Edited January 11, 2009 by NiftyNiblick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer19 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 If you're a 13 and are hitting 14° fairway woods, that's something.I'm an 11 at age sixty-three, but was an 8 or 9 most of my adult life and briefly a 7 at my very best. I NEVER hit anything anything under 16° from the highway. Most of my drivers have been 12 or 13°, even when I was younger. You must have a nice, upright swing, plenty of swingspeed, and not a lot of hit fairways from which you can smash those strong lofted fairway woods! I am sixty two and my measured ss is 90 mph. I do have a late release with my wrist so that would add some ss to it. Instead of a sweep/brush action on my FW, I tend to take a very small divot. I never had too much problem with FW regardless of lie angle of the clubs but 14* is just 1* stronger than the regular 15* 3 wood. I would prefer a 16.5* 4w but the distance gap with my UT3 is just too small now. I play a 10* driver at 45.5" and my #2 bro who is 71 plays a 9* at 46" and my oldest bro who is 77, a 10* driver at 48". They were all high singles when they were younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yeah, swing plane has a lot to do with it. I takes half-dollar size divots with my middle and short irons, and none with everything else. (You're old enough to remember fifty-cent coins.) I also have a flattish, hickory-shaft era draw swing (or that's how it was described to me) which concludes with me leaning forward and facing the target on my follow through with my arms up in front of my face. (If you look at ancient, sepia colored photos of guys playing in knickers, neckties, and argyle socks, you'd know what they meant by that hickory shaft swing thing.) None of the straight up reverse C finish of the modern swing. I'd end up with a reverse weight shift trying to emulate that. It all comes because most of my six feet of height is trunk. I've got shortish legs and longish arms like an ape (albeit a quite handsome one). That pretty much takes upright fairway woods out of play for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 My PRGR M3 Hit Tour 3 Wood is fantastic. I am not a tall person and the 2 degree flatter lie angle helps me keep the left out of play. It is my understanding two much of an upright lie angle for the shorter player causes the ball to go left if you dont compensate with your swing. When I hit the wood pure, the ball goes like no other 3 wood I have ever hit before. Does anyone know if there are other JDM that carry flatter lie angles for woods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer19 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Check out the new Geotech B Stream 3 wood at the Proshop now. Its 57* vs. 56.5* for the PRGR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdChoi Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 sf206 = best fairway wood ever. for me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polnkel Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 sf206 = best fairway wood ever.for me at least. hi. have you tried the fourteen sf308? i plan to buy a 3 wood. cant decide bet the two. im a 20 handicap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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