epon 302 help....,

[supo]

Chaps.. the best looking iron set i own the epon 302s

the shape the size the feel is juts out of this world.

i cant hit them.........,

ive tried so much i hit em in oz whene ever i could in all types of conditions

ive swapped the shafts out ., changed the grips over 3 times

ive played 1 really good ball striking round with them.

the rest ive just got thru

i cant sell em bec i love them there\must be something im missing here bec all my other iron setsi hit well esp if u use them twice in a row and a cpl of ranges sessions

but hte 302 i just cant get wired.

the sole is the broadset of all my clubs and im thnking this is the reason i have a very steep angle into the ball bec i do this really bad shiiiiiiiity cast movement that i jsut cant fix.!

but on small soled clubs that doesnt really come in to it on these tho its just too much i feel

is there any other reasons anyone can think of bec im into the death knell of perhaps the best clubs ever designed.

i will give these every possible cahnce to stay but i cant keep playing them when i hit the smaller clubs so much better

gents pls any ideas ??????

[Spoon]

ive had no problems with the 302 from 8-pw as these are part of my combo set.

at the top of my head i think your having problem with the sole and the grind.

the 302 even though they are smallish players head have a slightly wider sole

compared to other makes such as the yamahas and even the miuras.

ive had clients comment on the wider sole of the 302 but not enough that it

became a detriment, you may be the exception though. according to Jeff,

he also had problems with the sole grind of the 302 especially in hardpan

surfaces. add your steeper angle of attack and that sort of amplifies the width

of the sole. just opinions based on the comments ive received from some

of my clients and what youve just described.

[supo]

ive had no problems with the 302 from 8-pw as these are part of my combo set.

at the top of my head i think your having problem with the sole and the grind.

the 302 even though they are smallish players head have a slightly wider sole

compared to other makes such as the yamahas and even the miuras.

ive had clients comment on the wider sole of the 302 but not enough that it

became a detriment, you may be the exception though. according to Jeff,

he also had problems with the sole grind of the 302 especially in hardpan

surfaces. add your steeper angle of attack and that sort of amplifies the width

of the sole. just opinions based on the comments ive received from some

of my clients and what youve just described.

im gutted., i re did these with ns supe peening blue stiffs. and iomic evol grips

at t he range they ar just out of this world.

but i cant get em wireD ON TURF .nothing like my iother sticks

i am hitting the fourteen tc 1000s agn instead of these,

with good feel so FAR , range only OF COURSE.

but i cant just let 302 sit seriosuly this is doing my head in|!

[Spoon]

im gutted., i re did these with ns supe peening blue stiffs. and iomic evol grips

at t he range they ar just out of this world.

but i cant get em wireD ON TURF .nothing like my iother sticks

i am hitting the fourteen tc 1000s agn instead of these,

with good feel so FAR , range only OF COURSE.

but i cant just let 302 sit seriosuly this is doing my head in|!

did you bring your clubs to sing?

anyway i think its the sole + grind. you

arent having problems in the range which kinda

hides the problems youd be having if it were real turf.

what do you mean when you say you cant get em dialed in

or wired? are the quality of your hits inconsistent? are you digging

the club too much on the turf with your steep angle of attack which

is affecting your distance control?

no matter how much you love a club, if it doesnt work get rid of it.

a perfect club in the range is a different animal on the course. ive learned

the hard way many times bro

[shacco]

Aren't epons always a little on the high side as far as bounce is concerned? That might be the problem. Try to bend them or let someone grind the sole for your needs.

[Duffer19]

Stew, I can only share my experience with you on a similar situation. I had a brand new set of Miura 201 CB with nspro 850 a few years ago but just could not hit them properly on the course. I found out the the stock Miura head is 2 degree flat and yet I have a very upright swing or at least how my iron contact the ground. You wouldn't think being 5' 6" in height would require a more upright lie angle but with that small adjustment, I was able to hit the irons without any problem. I did notice your swing on the GTI video and it does look like a steep angle of attack. Unfortunately most range in Japan is not off real grass hence more difficult to demo this aspect. I would suggest take a 7 iron and adjust the lie and see whether it works.

[Spoon]

Stew, I can only share my experience with you on a similar situation. I had a brand new set of Miura 201 CB with nspro 850 a few years ago but just could not hit them properly on the course. I found out the the stock Miura head is 2 degree flat and yet I have a very upright swing or at least how my iron contact the ground. You wouldn't think being 5' 6" in height would require a more upright lie angle but with that small adjustment, I was able to hit the irons without any problem. I did notice your swing on the GTI video and it does look like a steep angle of attack. Unfortunately most range in Japan is not off real grass hence more difficult to demo this aspect. I would suggest take a 7 iron and adjust the lie and see whether it works.

that could be the case as well but i would think stew would have gotten his lies adjusted prior to gaming these. the fourteen tc1000 and epon 302 only have a difference of .5* of lie. tc1000.

[Shambles]

that could be the case as well but i would think stew would have gotten his lies adjusted prior to gaming these. the fourteen tc1000 and epon 302 only have a difference of .5* of lie. tc1000.

I can also believe that he probably has the right flex for himself in the shafts he installed. However, just for the fun of it, I would suggest he try checking them all again, including a very good measure of the shaft length. When it comes to swinging, shaft length is very important to consistency and even a half inch short can cause a lot of strange problems. We get used to taking a stance bending the knees just the right amount, having the ball just the right place and swinging with just the right timing. All these are affected by shaft length.

I'd say double check all the measures just to be that much more sure. If it still does not work out, have a session with a good swing pro.

Shambles

[skippercarey]

Stew i hve the same problem, got 4 to pw AF tours and added the 302 3iron to the set. at times my swing does tend to get a bit steep and when it does it makes the 302 unplayable with the AF tours i can get away with a few but the 302 is very unforgiving on the steep angle, but iv hit some fantastic shots with it when the swings on song. a good tip is to keep your hands in front of your chest, that way you stay more conected. works for me when i have this problem...........il bet you block your driver to? all caused by the body disconecting from the arms

[ihatebogies]

Stew I was starting to struggle a bit with my 302's and a friend told me to go to the range, take a sharpie pen and one of those gizmo's that you use to draw a line on your putter and mark up several of the range balls with a line like you would for putting. Place the ball so the line is perfectly straight up and dowm (90*) to the ground and hit some shots with each club. Check the mark on your clubface as to locattion as well as to whether it's straight up and down or leans one way or the other (towards the toe or heel). I found several of my clubs had lines that were badly leaning toward the heel. I had a local guy bend them to a more proper lie and my ball striking improved.

Jim

[rjklein4470]

My gues is that most of your shots are off the toe, DO NOT be agraid to stand right over the ball. Set up really close to the ball, and at first try to draw the ball this will keep you from hitting hozzel rockets. Then I am almost positive you will find the sweet spot of this club, because thats what its all about, finding the COG. And what makes Epon different than most is the location of the COG.

[supo]

thks chaps for input here.

got me thinking of a few situations.

ill remeasure all my lies and makesure they areall identical for a start

i already check shaft lenghts and they are all the same

i play a 5 iron at 37.75inch

stiff shafts in SP and x in others.

all grips are either pefect pro cord or iomic x evolution.

lies are standard not sure of the exct no t hee but ive treid going 1* up right with calamtous results kep t puling the 5 iron OB , one shot almost made a great circle it was the far left. !

pete surprised u didn t follow it u wouuld landed at manly golf club!

most miss hits are off the toe that is spot on.

most missed drives are blocks.

i do try and turn the ball over bec i i know i have the fishing swing so im very conscious of slashing my right hand thru

for the msot it works ok but all mymisses are right.

its just the 302 that are the BIG problem tho. ahh

the pain the pain...,

[idrive]

I'm much more a sweeper of the ball... Not a digger at all.

It's possible the grind isn't working with a steep swing.

What are the playing conditions? Turf, soft-hard

Everyone knows how much I love these irons.

[supo]

jeff i adore these ,

these are the best feeling irons of all time.

the round i palyed which i smoked em was in japan in midsummer on grass so lush the groud staff has to stop people form diggging it up and taking it home as carpet.

in those conds these just rule but ui can imagine how deep my divots are , i actually took one shot and i could see korea the divot was so deep.

but on ozzy hard pan. worst ever.

unless i manage to change my swing to sweeping then these are renderd useless.

i might just have to bite the bullett and accept i have what i have and that these are suited bette to other guys

jeff....., id buy a set of ur clubs in that finish JUST to put on my wall, they are the best looking sticks of all time ., i saw ur old post in 07 , gee whiz.

i gottta sort this out when i return home

[Spoon]

jeff i adore these ,

these are the best feeling irons of all time.

the round i palyed which i smoked em was in japan in midsummer on grass so lush the groud staff has to stop people form diggging it up and taking it home as carpet.

in those conds these just rule but ui can imagine how deep my divots are , i actually took one shot and i could see korea the divot was so deep.

but on ozzy hard pan. worst ever.

unless i manage to change my swing to sweeping then these are renderd useless.

i might just have to bite the bullett and accept i have what i have and that these are suited bette to other guys

jeff....., id buy a set of ur clubs in that finish JUST to put on my wall, they are the best looking sticks of all time ., i saw ur old post in 07 , gee whiz.

i gottta sort this out when i return home

just leave em in japan and make that your set for the lush courses. courses in japan are in those pristine conditions all year round

anyway and have one of your kyoeis or kenimochis down under. that way you get to keep the 302s. unless of course you find someone

capable enough to custom grind the sole

[supo]

sole grinding..................., hmmmmm, wonder is thats a possibility

wil change the SW of the club dramatically tho.

can get that done no probs.

might investigate that

[Spoon]

sole grinding..................., hmmmmm, wonder is thats a possibility

wil change the SW of the club dramatically tho.

can get that done no probs.

might investigate that

it may change the sw but not drastically, depends though how much they grind off:)

the heads are slightly heavier anyway due to the added plating of the head. better

observe your best ball striking irons and compare the sole to the 302s.

although the more aggressive route, i dont suggest this option unless you are

dead certain you want to be gaming these.

[Shambles]

jeff i adore these ,

these are the best feeling irons of all time.

the round i palyed which i smoked em was in japan in midsummer on grass so lush the groud staff has to stop people form diggging it up and taking it home as carpet.

in those conds these just rule but ui can imagine how deep my divots are , i actually took one shot and i could see korea the divot was so deep.

but on ozzy hard pan. worst ever.

unless i manage to change my swing to sweeping then these are renderd useless.

i might just have to bite the bullett and accept i have what i have and that these are suited bette to other guys

jeff....., id buy a set of ur clubs in that finish JUST to put on my wall, they are the best looking sticks of all time ., i saw ur old post in 07 , gee whiz.

i gottta sort this out when i return home

Sounds to me like you might have answered my question in this post. The fairways you left behind are holding the ball up just that much and you got used to it. It's probably a fairway that makes iron shots real easy and the same for woods. Now that you are playing in less lush conditions with not enough grass to hold up the ball, you lose some of the performance you are used to and even some direction. My guess is that you are striking the big ball before the small ball and so close that you can miss the fact you are doing so.

The solution, if this is the case, is simple. Just address the ball as normal, take easy comfortable swings, but with authority, and keep your eyes on the ball long enough to see the club strike the ball. As this becomes easier, go back to your normal swing speed but continue to try to see the club strike the ball before trying to see where it went. This is best done on very thin grass or bare ground, but can actually be done in lush grass too. You are actually just trying to hit the small ball before the big ball.

Shambles

[Spoon]

Sounds to me like you might have answered my question in this post. The fairways you left behind are holding the ball up just that much and you got used to it. It's probably a fairway that makes iron shots real easy and the same for woods. Now that you are playing in less lush conditions with not enough grass to hold up the ball, you lose some of the performance you are used to and even some direction. My guess is that you are striking the big ball before the small ball and so close that you can miss the fact you are doing so.

The solution, if this is the case, is simple. Just address the ball as normal, take easy comfortable swings, but with authority, and keep your eyes on the ball long enough to see the club strike the ball. As this becomes easier, go back to your normal swing speed but continue to try to see the club strike the ball before trying to see where it went. This is best done on very thin grass or bare ground, but can actually be done in lush grass too. You are actually just trying to hit the small ball before the big ball.

Shambles

that is good advice for me as i am nowhere near the ball striking of stew. hes a 2 cap or something:) plays in a variety of conditions in japan and links hardpan surfaces

down under. so he gets to play in a lot of surfaces.

[Shambles]

that is good advice for me as i am nowhere near the ball striking of stew. hes a 2 cap or something:) plays in a variety of conditions in japan and links hardpan surfaces

down under. so he gets to play in a lot of surfaces.

In that case I withdraw my advice. I clearly don't know Stew and have made some poor assumptions. Even a short course will not produce a 2 cap without him knowing how to hit the ball clean and regularly.

Thanks for the info. This is a puzzle to me as I don't accept that any well made Iron will be picky about the places it can be played. Maybe Stew is more distracted than he thinks, considering that he just left a place he considers home.

Shambles

[supo]

nononononon.., ur advice is spot on !

ur assumption of hitting the toe is dead right. and i do tend to hitthe big fella before ihit the small one , hence humongous divots!

but................,with the ground shaking like it i s i might just get better contact now bec he ball will be ina differnt spot every time!!!!!

in fact quite literally!

the surface i normaily hit off in JP is as nice as ull hit anywhrere on the globe really soft fluffy lies perfect for these clubs or so iu think , which is why i bought them i nthe first palce. but even still i play others better.

the toughter turf back home i ddint think for a minute these would be my best bet for irions and as it turned out was a spot on assumption.

going to re think everything when i get my head back in the right space back in japan HOPEFULLY in a cpl of weeks.

but considering my style of play and the results iget with how i hit it then i gotta go with what suits best and thats the miuras and the kyoeis it seems

thks for everyones hlep on this .

at some stage u just have to say things dont suit, a much as this erks me theres no use having something this good sitting in a bag not getting hit in all honesty i dont mind hoarding but these will just taunt me .

Edited March 19, 2011 by supo67

[Spoon]

nononononon.., ur advice is spot on !

ur assumption of hitting the toe is dead right. and i do tend to hitthe big fella before ihit the small one , hence humongous divots!

but................,with the ground shaking like it i s i might just get better contact now bec he ball will be ina differnt spot every time!!!!!

in fact quite literally!

the surface i normaily hit off in JP is as nice as ull hit anywhrere on the globe really soft fluffy lies perfect for these clubs or so iu think , which is why i bought them i nthe first palce. but even still i play others better.

the toughter turf back home i ddint think for a minute these would be my best bet for irions and as it turned out was a spot on assumption.

going to re think everything when i get my head back in the right space back in japan HOPEFULLY in a cpl of weeks.

but considering my style of play and the results iget with how i hit it then i gotta go with what suits best and thats the miuras and the kyoeis it seems

thks for everyones hlep on this .

at some stage u just have to say things dont suit, a much as this erks me theres no use having something this good sitting in a bag not getting hit in all honesty i dont mind hoarding but these will just taunt me .

do what you have to do but if your having to make changes just to make the club

work then your going out of your comfort zone if that happens just ditch it. use

your natural swing and if it works fine with the miuras and kyoeis then its obviously

the club.

your the ultimate judge mate.

[Shambles]

Now I'm in a mess.

You described these as the best feeling. That tells me the length and Swing Weight are probably right, possibly even the over all weight, and lie. Yet you also describe toe shots and that can come from a tired old man and also short shafts that require more knee flex than the golfer is comfortable with. The knee flex I consider important. If you need to flex too much, it can become difficult to maintain your height for your swing. You could end up with a tiny bob that causes inconsistency in striking the ball. This can be caused by shafts that are just that little bit too short. Shafts a bit too short can also encourage not only a swing that's a bit too upright, but also an out to in swing which can cause toe shots. It also affects the grip in subtle ways. BTW, too long can cause as many problems as too short.

Trouble is, one really has to see the guy do a few to figure out where his problem is. I've never been much good with the eyes so I need a lot of looking before I can make a reasonable guess, and even then, can be very wrong.

To make things more interesting, a 2 cap does not have the dramatic problems that higher caps have, though they can be described the same way with the same words. A weak swing pro can miss the problem entirely and think you are showing off. It can be that subtle.

In short, knowing that you are a 2 cap, I think I'll retreat from further discussion and strenuously suggest you find yourself a good swing doctor to try to pin down your swing problem. For all you know, it could just be one of your mates who pins it down, but if he knows you, he'll know better. Anything I can offer is for the more gross errors and not for the subtle requirements of a 2 cap.

Shambles