The old chestnut: Miura vs Epon irons

[Ara selai]

Another Lengthy Post!

Spoon suggested in a previous post asking about FWs and hybrids that I check out Raja Golf here in Jakarta for Epon clubs. I'd never heard of Raja before, and it turns out they're the only authorized Epon dealer in town, which explains why I hadn't found any Epons to demo when I was buying new irons last year. Anyway, I took his advice after playing a round today, and stopped by on the way home. What a fantastic store (and serene to boot, which counts for a lot in Jakarta!)! Wish I'd known about it back when I was looking for irons and a driver!

They didn't have the Epon AF-201 FWs or AF-901 driving iron I was looking for (out of stock, and apparently not a lot of requests for them), but they DID have the 302, 502, and 702 irons, none of which I'd been able to demo previously. So of course, I gave them all a good whack, to see how they compared in particular to the swag of Miura, Yamaha, Fourteen, OnOff, and Mizuno irons that I had tried out previously. Verdict: none of the Epons made me second-guess my choice to go with Miura CB-2006s. The way I'm hitting those right now, that was kind of what I expected, but I have to admit, after reading so many glowing reviews of the Epon irons I HAD been wondering....

So anyway, here's a newbie's thoughts for anyone considering Epon AF-502, AF-302, or AF-702s vs Miura CB-2006, CB-501, CB-3003, CB-301, and PP-9003s. (This may or may not be timely: I suspect my 2006s may be discontinued shortly, given recent price reductions here in Indonesia (40% off and a free wedge). I see they're also discounted at TSG. Any word on a replacement, Gocchin, Spoon, or Supo?).

To keep this post as short as possible (but not really very short at all), I haven't included specific comparisons with all the other JDM irons I tried previously. Rather, I'm only comparing the Epons to the Miuras, since that seems to be one of the most common comparisons requested on this board. (Nevertheless, I have to mention that, if you're looking for irons at this level, it is WELL worth considering Yamahas as well as Epons and Miuras. I liked their 2010 Inpres X V-forged irons almost enough to get them instead of the Miuras. If only they hadn't been close to twice the price! See my other thoughts all the way at the bottom of this post). Also, please keep in mind that my tests were only off the mat, so others' opinions may vary, especially if they've gamed any of these clubs, as I do the 2006s. Please chime in if you disagree (or agree).

For the record, and as I mentioned in my previous post, I'm a low 20s handicapper. My tempo can be uneven, but I'm generally more a "swinger" than a "hitter". I have a moderate swing speed (about 85 mph with the irons), and carry my 7i a little under 160 yards. When I mis**t, I'm usually fat on the ball. Hope that helps as I describe the clubs.

To business: I hit the 502s well (and, surprisingly, a for-grins set of Yururi musclebacks I'd been wanting to try), struggled with the 302s (lots of off-center toe shots), and was thoroughly unimpressed by the 702s.

502s first. I found them easier to hit (and definitely more forgiving) than the Miuras. By that, I mean ANY of the Miuras I tried (see my original post for specific details). The 502s almost swung themselves. The head weight is simply tremendous for my swing, and the club head got under the ball nicely (is there a grind issue at play here?). BUT, they just didn't give me the same creamy feel on sweet shots as my Miura 2006s or even the CB-501s, and they didn't give me anything like the kind of feedback I want on mis**ts. The 2006s get under the ball just as nicely as the 502s, and feel a bit more "solid" to me. I recall reading a description somewhere (can't recall for which clubs) that that particular club feels like hitting a nail square-on with a well-weighted, small-headed hammer. That's exactly how I'd describe the 2006s, which I'd played earlier in the day for 18 holes. The 502s, for all their ease to hit, felt less sensitive, if that's a meaningful desription for anyone. Maybe less dynamic is a better description.... All the shots felt very similar, regardless of how the were struck. Plus, I found the (in)famous "clicky" sound of the Epons a real turn-off, like the ghastly metallic sounds that certain drivers have, although not as noticeable. The 502s looked slightly thicker at address, but I didn't bring my 2006s inside for a direct comparison. I also felt the 502s set up with perceptibly less offset, which I liked, but wouldn't want to swear to that without seeing comparable clubs side-by-side. I definitely prefer the backs of the 502s to the 2006s, which I find pretty busy. My overall impression was that the 502s would appeal to a wider range of golfers than the 2006s, but are not quite the right club for me. (For the sake of completeness, I should mention the other Miura CBs I tried, the 301s and 3003s. Neither of these models performed well for me, so I'd have to rate them behind the 2006s and 502s, in that order, in terms of performance. I couldn't get either set to settle down in terms of dispersion; they just sprayed all over the place. FWIW, I prefer the looks of the 3003s to the 502s, but like the 502s looks more than the 301s.)

Onto the 302s. I really liked the look of them at all angles (and the Yururis, but that's a different story), and I felt like I was going to crush the ball. Sadly, no. Unlike the smooth-swinging 502s, these came down from the backswing heavier, and I never found a real groove with them. In that regard, they were like the Miura 501s, which I wanted to love, but never found a really solid groove with either (and which would probably appeal to similar players). Because I hit both so erratically, I can't really comment on feel, except to say that good hits with both clubs were like nirvana. Much nicer than the previously-mentioned Miura 301s or 3003s, neither of which ever "sang" to me. Neither the 501s nor the 302s ever felt harsh. It's probably worth noting that the 302s don't have the annoying clicky sound of the 502s, since they don't have the hollow spot in their back. On a purely personal note, I prefer the Miuras to the Epons by a huge margin, because I think the Miuras are knock-down, drop-dead, gorgeous clubs.

Now to the 702s. These were the absolute runts of the Epon litter, in my opinion. They looked fat at address, they had no feel at all, and I couldn't detect that they were any more forgiving at all than the 502s. I hit them well enough, but was - frankly - thoroughly unimpressed by them. Bleah! Of the Miuras I tried, I think they are most comparable to the PP 9003s, which, incidentally, were my least favorite of the Miuras. I prefer the look of the 9003s overall. Specifically, I think the 9003s might have a slightly thinner topline (but defer to others who have seen them side-by-side), and I prefer the look at address and in the bag. I definitely didn't think the 9003s looked as bloated when I tried them as I did the 702s. But aesthetics aren't where the rubber hits the road (or, in my case, where the iron hits the astroturf). In terms of performance, I found the 702s to be more forgiving than the 9003s, which jarred my hands perceptibly on even slight mis**ts. This was surprising, as the 9003s are meant to be "friendly"' yet these were the only clubs, Epon or Miura, that I had this problem with.

So, in summary, having now tried all the current-model cavity backs I care to at the moment from these two heavyweight companies (except maybe the Miura CB-202, which I really like the looks of), I would choose them as follows FOR MY GAME:

1) Miura CB-2006 (pure and easy)

2) Epon AF-502 (forgiving, but lacks sensitivity)

3) Miura CB-501 (would require more practice and an improved game, which are excellent incentives!)

4) Epon AF-302 (ditto)

5) Miura CB-3003 (I could have hit these a lot better; if so, possibly a better choice than the CB-501 or AF-302)

6) Miura CB-301 (ditto, but I liked them slightly less than the 3003s)

7) Epon AF-702 (average at best; many better options out there)

8) Miura PP-9003 (no excuse for the harshness)

To round it out without any specific commentary, of the other clubs I tried, I'd put the Yamaha Inpres Xs slightly in front of the AF-502s; the Mizuno MP-53s only slightly behind the CB-501s; and the OnOffs and the Fourteens comfortably ahead of the AF-302s. Oh yeah, and I'd be trying a LOT of other clubs before picking up the AF-702s or PP-9003s again. Let me know if you'd like

[supo]

yea good thoughts.

i think ul find as u get better the epon 302 race up the rankings

i also couldnt get along with them till i discoveeid i neded to flatten the lie 1.5 * , which i did to a 7 iron i have and now hit as well if not better thna anything else .

the 302s are exceptional for the better players.

i think.......

the 502s my mate has and hes hit most clubs JDM , and absolutely swears by them. hes a 12 marker.

everythings relative.

the miuras i dont know about the ones uve got

i have had a few sets of blades and cavities cb1006. solid players irons! and cb 3001 super easy cavities ( i actually palyed my best round with these)

the biggest difference is i nthe shape for me.

the miuras are much more square than epon

i think this also makes a big difference.

if u like looking at squareer lines then epon mighten be the best bet

vice versa

over all i find the miuras to be a lot clickier than epon ,epon is the most rediculously soft feel there is. regardless of what shaft is in them

on wet days id use the epon 100% on dry hard pan id use miura, miura tend to make thinner soled clubs as well.

depends on what u like to hit.

theres no best/ better, its totally relative to your eye and swing comparing these .

[Spoon]

Wow I likemthenway you dissect your clubs. Very analytical and unbiased.

I agree with stew there is no better and best and at this point it's a matter

Of preference, what suits your eye and what you can get away with with your

Swing. Do note your level of play, progression and where you see yourself

In 6 months to one year. Are you the type to change clubs or hold on to a set?

Many factors to consider and although we may point you in a certain direction

You makenthe choice in the end.

To sum it up I'd recommend the onoff plus forged, epon 502 or yamaha inpres d

Irons. They are cavity backs that are midsize and forgiving. I liked the 502s gamed them

For one year they have helped my game and I dint think they were particularly less sensitive.

I actually think they are very forgiving, soft and have less vibrations on mis**ts due to the alpha gel

Filled onside the hollow cavity. I came from the older epon 501 irons so the 502s were a treat. The new

Onoffs are in equal terms with the 502 although others claim it even more forgiving than the epons.

I cannot comment as I haven't tried those. 3o2s are the creme del a creme nothing softer out there

But is the most demanding. I reckon even a 15 capper can handle it and a 20 capper can play the

8,9,pw pretty ok.

I agree with your comments on the 702. They are for the beginner golfer, senior player or the guy who

Wants ballistic balls . Totally different segment but a damn fine piece of golf club engineering. For it's forgiveness

And distance, feel naturally is sacrificed. I actually used a 702 4 iron as part of my 502s and loved it as a 4 iron.

At this point your on the right track, start narrowing your choices to 3 to 4 sets , demo them again and if there's

A certain iron at the top of your list, believe me there will only be one being recalled and recalled in your brain that

Would be it. Good luck and do update us.

[gbs]

Since you are in JKT and i am in SBY. if you need any advice, PM me as i have played most of them. I think you went to TOP GOLF where they discount almost everything LOL.

I am using the 502 and loving it. I used to own the 701 and i improved my game so much with it. My friend who bought it from me who was also a H'Capper improved heaps and thinking of getting 702s now.

I think it comes down to personal preference. I have hit almost all the miuras and love the thinner topline but i still come back to Epon. Why cause i really want to improve not gaming something that i cant handle. I know what you are saying about the clicking noise of the 502s as i am still using them. but i have already overcome that noise :) and its not bothering me anymore.

I have had the 2010 yamaha x vforged i still prefer these epons to that. the only thing that comes close is the 2011 XV forged but what i hate again is that . Yamaha changes model every year with Epon at least i know i am using the current model for at least 2 years. :)

Edited August 1, 2011 by gbs

[gbs]

Wow I likemthenway you dissect your clubs. Very analytical and unbiased.

I agree with stew there is no better and best and at this point it's a matter

Of preference, what suits your eye and what you can get away with with your

Swing. Do note your level of play, progression and where you see yourself

In 6 months to one year. Are you the type to change clubs or hold on to a set?

Many factors to consider and although we may point you in a certain direction

You makenthe choice in the end.

To sum it up I'd recommend the onoff plus forged, epon 502 or yamaha inpres d

Irons. They are cavity backs that are midsize and forgiving. I liked the 502s gamed them

For one year they have helped my game and I dint think they were particularly less sensitive.

I actually think they are very forgiving, soft and have less vibrations on mis**ts due to the alpha gel

Filled onside the hollow cavity. I came from the older epon 501 irons so the 502s were a treat. The new

Onoffs are in equal terms with the 502 although others claim it even more forgiving than the epons.

I cannot comment as I haven't tried those. 3o2s are the creme del a creme nothing softer out there

But is the most demanding. I reckon even a 15 capper can handle it and a 20 capper can play the

8,9,pw pretty ok.

I agree with your comments on the 702. They are for the beginner golfer, senior player or the guy who

Wants ballistic balls . Totally different segment but a damn fine piece of golf club engineering. For it's forgiveness

And distance, feel naturally is sacrificed. I actually used a 702 4 iron as part of my 502s and loved it as a 4 iron.

At this point your on the right track, start narrowing your choices to 3 to 4 sets , demo them again and if there's

A certain iron at the top of your list, believe me there will only be one being recalled and recalled in your brain that

Would be it. Good luck and do update us.

C , sadly here in Indonesia we cannot split sets. Otherwise i would have combo my set 5-7 502s and the 8-pw in 302s oh well i am enjoying every bit of my 502 at the moment and nothing seem to be able to knock it out of my bag although i am always in search of a spare set.

[FrankThong]

In my very humble opinion, the shaft makes a bigger difference than the head on the club. Other than the Epon 502s, which incorporates some technological extra into its designs, the differences in the list of irons mentioned are quite marginal, ie forged heads with less/more offset, slight variations in cavity design, weight distribution and other minute deviations. I'm not saying these are not important but the differences they make in the grand scheme of things are really quite insignificant. On the right shaft, any iron on your list, including the 702, will 'sing' to you. ;)

[gbs]

In my very humble opinion, the shaft makes a bigger difference than the head on the club. Other than the Epon 502s, which incorporates some technological extra into its designs, the differences in the list of irons mentioned are quite marginal, ie forged heads with less/more offset, slight variations in cavity design, weight distribution and other minute deviations. I'm not saying these are not important but the differences they make in the grand scheme of things are really quite insignificant. On the right shaft, any iron on your list, including the 702, will 'sing' to you. ;)

How are your crazy iron shafts working for you Frank?

[FrankThong]

How are your crazy iron shafts working for you Frank?

Oh singing! The sweetest song you'll ever hear haha! Seriously, I was told the shafts had to be 'worked in'; not sure if that was the reason that I was not getting my usual distance with some of the irons in the beginning, and now they are giving me half a club more -- I also strengthened the loft by 1 deg though. The dispersion is tighter than any other graphite iron shafts I've used but the distance loss on mis-hits is not so good -- that could be due to the head design too. On pure feel, the Crazy 'kick' is unmistakable and a real joy to hit. Very happy with the shafts indeed! :)

[Ara selai]

I got my Miuras a few weeks ago, and wasn't able to find any Epons to try at the time (hadn't heard about Raja Golf yet). I did try some OnOffs (NS Pro 850, NS510, and MP510), but none of them worked as well for me as I would have liked. After 20-30 balls with each, I was done. The NS Pros were an older model Plus series. In addition to hitting more poor shots with them than some of the other clubs, I wasn't a fan of the head shape or the exaggerated metal bulge at the back of that model. I guess I should have persevered and tried some of the newer Pluses as well!

The Yamaha Inpres Ds were real standouts, as were the Inpres X V-forged I mentioned previously. In fact, my incredibly patient friend who stuck it out with me while I whittled the selection down to the final three sets commented that he thought the D was my best club in terms of distance and trajectory. Of course, as I mentioned in another post, the Yamahas were lofted 4* stronger than the Miuras (501s and 2006s), so the Yamaha 7i that I was crushing was like a Miura 6i. Hence the differential in distance.

In the end, I got the Miuras because (1) I had more pure shots with them than with any of the others; (2) they were the easiest for me to set up and swing without thinking too much (maybe gracefulmis a good way to describe them); and (3) despite my initial negative impression of the busy design of the back of the head, which I was pretty unimpressed with compared to some of the others, they were the ones I kept coming back to again and again to try, and they were the ones I kept thinking about at home. As previous posters have mentioned, it's horses for courses. That said, having now also tried the Epon 502s, I really wish I could have tried them head to head with the Miuras and the Yamahas. As I said, the Epons swung themselves.

I usually keep irons in the bag for at least a couple of years (I'm more finicky with drivers and woods), so I'm not planning on changing these soon. And right now, I wouldn't have any reason to, based on what they're doing for me. That said, I'll monitor my progress, and will re-try the 502s and Yamahas (and perhaps the OnOffs) if for some reason the bottom falls out of the 2006s sooner than that. Then, as (if) my game improves a bit, I'll be re-testing the Epon 302s and Miura 501s as a "graduation" present. Hopefully soon!

@FrankThong: I tried the following shafts on different heads: Nippon NS Pro 850GH, 950 GH, and 1150 GH in stiff and regular. I also compared both the stiffest stock graphite shaft and the Nippon 950 shaft on the Yamaha Ds. I definitely wasn't as thorough in testing shafts as I was in clubs, but I pretty much knew what I wanted. As expected, I really preferred the steel (the graphite went left, left, left), and found that the 850s allowed me slightly better club speed without sacrificing any control with respect to the 950s. The 1150s were too heavy too keep up my speed. On a separate note, how do you like your TRC utility? I've got another post asking about this vs the SFD and any other contenders.

@gbs: Sent you a pm. Did you get it? Would definitely appreciate some local help! And how do you like your Srixon ute?

Edited August 1, 2011 by Ara selai

[FrankThong]

@FrankThong: I tried the following shafts on different heads: Nippon NS Pro 850GH, 950 GH, and 1150 GH in stiff and regular. I also compared both the stiffest stock graphite shaft and the Nippon 950 shaft on the Yamaha Ds. I definitely wasn't as thorough in testing shafts as I was in clubs, but I pretty much knew what I wanted. As expected, I really preferred the steel (the graphite went left, left, left), and found that the 850s allowed me slightly better club speed without sacrificing any control with respect to the 950s. The 1150s were too heavy too keep up my speed. On a separate note, how do you like your TRC utility? I've got another post asking about this vs the SFD and any other contenders.

I can't say if those shafts would suit you or not. You should get a good pro or club fitter to recommend the right shaft -- flex, swing weight, etc -- for you; trust me, it will make a world of difference. When you know your swing and game better, you can then experiment with different head-shaft combinations. By the way, did I mention the grip is more important than most people think? No? Heh, the grip is the most often overlooked component; you should think about getting the right type and size.

I love the TRC. As a matter of fact, I just placed an order for the 26 deg. It's the first ute that sits down right for me, square at address. I could hit it high or low, work it right/left and vice versa; when I first got it, I thought the head was too heavy but now, it's a real joy to play with.

[gbs]

Oh singing! The sweetest song you'll ever hear haha! Seriously, I was told the shafts had to be 'worked in'; not sure if that was the reason that I was not getting my usual distance with some of the irons in the beginning, and now they are giving me half a club more -- I also strengthened the loft by 1 deg though. The dispersion is tighter than any other graphite iron shafts I've used but the distance loss on mis-hits is not so good -- that could be due to the head design too. On pure feel, the Crazy 'kick' is unmistakable and a real joy to hit. Very happy with the shafts indeed! :)

Glad to hear that. did you by any chance tweak the lie as well?

[gbs]

I got my Miuras a few weeks ago, and wasn't able to find any Epons to try at the time (hadn't heard about Raja Golf yet). I did try some OnOffs (NS Pro 850, NS510, and MP510), but none of them worked as well for me as I would have liked. After 20-30 balls with each, I was done. The NS Pros were an older model Plus series. In addition to hitting more poor shots with them than some of the other clubs, I wasn't a fan of the head shape or the exaggerated metal bulge at the back of that model. I guess I should have persevered and tried some of the newer Pluses as well!

The Yamaha Inpres Ds were real standouts, as were the Inpres X V-forged I mentioned previously. In fact, my incredibly patient friend who stuck it out with me while I whittled the selection down to the final three sets commented that he thought the D was my best club in terms of distance and trajectory. Of course, as I mentioned in another post, the Yamahas were lofted 4* stronger than the Miuras (501s and 2006s), so the Yamaha 7i that I was crushing was like a Miura 6i. Hence the differential in distance.

In the end, I got the Miuras because (1) I had more pure shots with them than with any of the others; (2) they were the easiest for me to set up and swing without thinking too much (maybe gracefulmis a good way to describe them); and (3) despite my initial negative impression of the busy design of the back of the head, which I was pretty unimpressed with compared to some of the others, they were the ones I kept coming back to again and again to try, and they were the ones I kept thinking about at home. As previous posters have mentioned, it's horses for courses. That said, having now also tried the Epon 502s, I really wish I could have tried them head to head with the Miuras and the Yamahas. As I said, the Epons swung themselves.

I usually keep irons in the bag for at least a couple of years (I'm more finicky with drivers and woods), so I'm not planning on changing these soon. And right now, I wouldn't have any reason to, based on what they're doing for me. That said, I'll monitor my progress, and will re-try the 502s and Yamahas (and perhaps the OnOffs) if for some reason the bottom falls out of the 2006s sooner than that. Then, as (if) my game improves a bit, I'll be re-testing the Epon 302s and Miura 501s as a "graduation" present. Hopefully soon!

@FrankThong: I tried the following shafts on different heads: Nippon NS Pro 850GH, 950 GH, and 1150 GH in stiff and regular. I also compared both the stiffest stock graphite shaft and the Nippon 950 shaft on the Yamaha Ds. I definitely wasn't as thorough in testing shafts as I was in clubs, but I pretty much knew what I wanted. As expected, I really preferred the steel (the graphite went left, left, left), and found that the 850s allowed me slightly better club speed without sacrificing any control with respect to the 950s. The 1150s were too heavy too keep up my speed. On a separate note, how do you like your TRC utility? I've got another post asking about this vs the SFD and any other contenders.

@gbs: Sent you a pm. Did you get it? Would definitely appreciate some local help! And how do you like your Srixon ute?

sorry was busy at work today... i did get it but on busy days its really a challenge to reply back here. cld just email me. The srixon is too close to my 5 fw so i am back to my 21* ute. am letting that one go soon.

[FrankThong]

Glad to hear that. did you by any chance tweak the lie as well?

Oh yes, 1 deg flat. Strangely, that's 1 deg more upright than my Miura but was square on impact. Does it have anything to do with the Neos hmm?

[gbs]

Oh yes, 1 deg flat. Strangely, that's 1 deg more upright than my Miura but was square on impact. Does it have anything to do with the Neos hmm?

It very well could be. I want to tweak my 502s 1 deg flat. lets see what happens.

[Spoon]

i tweaked my 302s 1 * flat and am hitting the ball better than any period

of my golfing life. the flatter angle made me make my stance more upright

and athletic and have a free pass to swing my arms.

also do note that compared to other makes the epons seem to be naturally more

upright stock

[gbs]

Guys thank you so so much, went straight to my club builder after flattened the lie 1* ---- went to the range wack wack wack OMG it did not take any time to adjust everything was pure. I should have done it ages ago as my 701 was also about 1.5* flat. dumb2 me. Oh well , can't wait to get it into play.

[wmclarenf1]

I actually bent my epons mre upright but then again, I play them 0.5 inch shorter than US standard.

[Eca]

Guys thank you so so much, went straight to my club builder after flattened the lie 1* ---- went to the range wack wack wack OMG it did not take any time to adjust everything was pure. I should have done it ages ago as my 701 was also about 1.5* flat. dumb2 me. Oh well , can't wait to get it into play.

Great Stuff Budi. Read up on this, starts about halfway down & see hogans & trevinos take on lie angles

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/tag/ben-hogan/

This will leaves no doubt about your direction & results.

[supo]

YEA i had the same results when i flatted the epon 302 7 iron i have 1.5*

it just sings now.

the differnce is quite amazing.

[jpsfreak]

sorry was busy at work today... i did get it but on busy days its really a challenge to reply back here. cld just email me. The srixon is too close to my 5 fw so i am back to my 21* ute. am letting that one go soon.

Hi, good to know tha you are from Indonesia as i am too and have the same interest in japanese clubs. Your post about epon is nice and as i used to game w epon 501, bit regret to let it go and think to get 502. But other clubs like miuraism sb 01,onoff plus,golds fact,miura pp 9003,prgr, and even honma is waiting to be gamed.always confusion and not reommend to have many, especially good one.Now i am interested to experiment with shafts especially graphite like quadra, crazy that i would like to try. Can we get crazy in indonesia?could not get it from top golf though.the only gr aphite i have is matrix program95 installed it in my onoff plus.....sweet! And off course honma.

Ok good to know you all and as always look forward to having any feedbacks on premium clubs.

Dw

[gbs]

Hi, good to know tha you are from Indonesia as i am too and have the same interest in japanese clubs. Your post about epon is nice and as i used to game w epon 501, bit regret to let it go and think to get 502. But other clubs like miuraism sb 01,onoff plus,golds fact,miura pp 9003,prgr, and even honma is waiting to be gamed.always confusion and not reommend to have many, especially good one.Now i am interested to experiment with shafts especially graphite like quadra, crazy that i would like to try. Can we get crazy in indonesia?could not get it from top golf though.the only gr aphite i have is matrix program95 installed it in my onoff plus.....sweet! And off course honma.

Ok good to know you all and as always look forward to having any feedbacks on premium clubs.

Dw

PMed you. want to ask anything just fire away, try to help as much as i can.

[Ara selai]

@jpsfreak: I'd be very interested in your opinion on the Miura 9003s. Of all the clubs I tried, I was least impressed by these (see my original post), and I'm still perplexed why they gave me such grief. They were shafted with Nippon NSPRO 950 shafts. I'm a steel fan (have NSPRO 850 in my current clubs), so I can't see that that was the problem. The 9003s just felt unexpectedly and inexplicably harsh to me. The other problem I had with them was finding a consistent trajectory, despite the cavity back. Was wondering if you might have had a different experience? I'm particularly interested because they were high on my list of contenders before I hit them.

Also, I didn't have the opportunity to try any of the Miuraism heads in my iron mini-shootout - how do the SB01s compare to other clubs you listed?

I think gbs will be able to help you with your quest for Quadra and Crazy shafts here in Indonesia, or else Carlo can ship you some from the Philippines. I have tried many stores in JKT and have not had any luck (yet) in sourcing them locally.

100 balls with the 2006s at the range tonight. Except for a couple of typical duffs (tough course!) and 3 or 4 skulled shots, every one of them 5-PW was within 10 yards of where I was aiming. And even the duffs had the decency to go straight. Hope the honeymoon lasts forever! (The other 200 balls were testing FWs and Utilities, but that's another post).

[Spoon]

@jpsfreak: I'd be very interested in your opinion on the Miura 9003s. Of all the clubs I tried, I was least impressed by these (see my original post), and I'm still perplexed why they gave me such grief. They were shafted with Nippon NSPRO 950 shafts. I'm a steel fan (have NSPRO 850 in my current clubs), so I can't see that that was the problem. The 9003s just felt unexpectedly and inexplicably harsh to me. The other problem I had with them was finding a consistent trajectory, despite the cavity back. Was wondering if you might have had a different experience? I'm particularly interested because they were high on my list of contenders before I hit them.

Also, I didn't have the opportunity to try any of the Miuraism heads in my iron mini-shootout - how do the SB01s compare to other clubs you listed?

I think gbs will be able to help you with your quest for Quadra and Crazy shafts here in Indonesia, or else Carlo can ship you some from the Philippines. I have tried many stores in JKT and have not had any luck (yet) in sourcing them locally.

100 balls with the 2006s at the range tonight. Except for a couple of typical duffs (tough course!) and 3 or 4 skulled shots, every one of them 5-PW was within 10 yards of where I was aiming. And even the duffs had the decency to go straight. Hope the honeymoon lasts forever! (The other 200 balls were testing FWs and Utilities, but that's another post).

You cab get your quadra and crazy shafts in TSG they will hook you up with everything you need.

Pm gocchin or tourspecgolfer.

[Ara selai]

Re: shafts. I'm happy to order Quadras from TSG. I've also got a semi-local (out of town) option on a second hand Quadra. I'd just like compare to the weight, feel and stiffness for my swing against a few other shafts before laying that much dosh. Is that a reasonable expectation, or a pipe dream? These high-end driver shafts are a brave new world for me!

@FrankThong, belatedly. I tried quite a few shafts in the irons before getting the NS850s installed. They seem to be working well. I know whatyou mean about finding the right ones, though; quite a few (heavier steel shafts in particular) definitely didn't suit! Plus, I found the 850s let me maximize club speed without getting the whippiness I experienced in lighter and comparably weighted graphite shafts. I'm sure there were other options out there that could have worked as well or possibly better, but I'm happy.

We're in violent agreement that most of the Miura, Epon, and Yamaha heads I tried are only differentiated by subtle design differences. That's why it was so hard for me to pick an eventual winner, and why the different companies' design teams have to work so hard on emphasizing the subtleties. Certainly, some worked better for me than others, even when they had the same shafts installed.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Ara selai

[jimsta]

Another Lengthy Post!

Spoon suggested in a previous post asking about FWs and hybrids that I check out Raja Golf here in Jakarta for Epon clubs. I'd never heard of Raja before, and it turns out they're the only authorized Epon dealer in town, which explains why I hadn't found any Epons to demo when I was buying new irons last year. Anyway, I took his advice after playing a round today, and stopped by on the way home. What a fantastic store (and serene to boot, which counts for a lot in Jakarta!)! Wish I'd known about it back when I was looking for irons and a driver!

They didn't have the Epon AF-201 FWs or AF-901 driving iron I was looking for (out of stock, and apparently not a lot of requests for them), but they DID have the 302, 502, and 702 irons, none of which I'd been able to demo previously. So of course, I gave them all a good whack, to see how they compared in particular to the swag of Miura, Yamaha, Fourteen, OnOff, and Mizuno irons that I had tried out previously. Verdict: none of the Epons made me second-guess my choice to go with Miura CB-2006s. The way I'm hitting those right now, that was kind of what I expected, but I have to admit, after reading so many glowing reviews of the Epon irons I HAD been wondering....

So anyway, here's a newbie's thoughts for anyone considering Epon AF-502, AF-302, or AF-702s vs Miura CB-2006, CB-501, CB-3003, CB-301, and PP-9003s. (This may or may not be timely: I suspect my 2006s may be discontinued shortly, given recent price reductions here in Indonesia (40% off and a free wedge). I see they're also discounted at TSG. Any word on a replacement, Gocchin, Spoon, or Supo?).

To keep this post as short as possible (but not really very short at all), I haven't included specific comparisons with all the other JDM irons I tried previously. Rather, I'm only comparing the Epons to the Miuras, since that seems to be one of the most common comparisons requested on this board. (Nevertheless, I have to mention that, if you're looking for irons at this level, it is WELL worth considering Yamahas as well as Epons and Miuras. I liked their 2010 Inpres X V-forged irons almost enough to get them instead of the Miuras. If only they hadn't been close to twice the price! See my other thoughts all the way at the bottom of this post). Also, please keep in mind that my tests were only off the mat, so others' opinions may vary, especially if they've gamed any of these clubs, as I do the 2006s. Please chime in if you disagree (or agree).

For the record, and as I mentioned in my previous post, I'm a low 20s handicapper. My tempo can be uneven, but I'm generally more a "swinger" than a "hitter". I have a moderate swing speed (about 85 mph with the irons), and carry my 7i a little under 160 yards. When I mis**t, I'm usually fat on the ball. Hope that helps as I describe the clubs.

To business: I hit the 502s well (and, surprisingly, a for-grins set of Yururi musclebacks I'd been wanting to try), struggled with the 302s (lots of off-center toe shots), and was thoroughly unimpressed by the 702s.

502s first. I found them easier to hit (and definitely more forgiving) than the Miuras. By that, I mean ANY of the Miuras I tried (see my original post for specific details). The 502s almost swung themselves. The head weight is simply tremendous for my swing, and the club head got under the ball nicely (is there a grind issue at play here?). BUT, they just didn't give me the same creamy feel on sweet shots as my Miura 2006s or even the CB-501s, and they didn't give me anything like the kind of feedback I want on mis**ts. The 2006s get under the ball just as nicely as the 502s, and feel a bit more "solid" to me. I recall reading a description somewhere (can't recall for which clubs) that that particular club feels like hitting a nail square-on with a well-weighted, small-headed hammer. That's exactly how I'd describe the 2006s, which I'd played earlier in the day for 18 holes. The 502s, for all their ease to hit, felt less sensitive, if that's a meaningful desription for anyone. Maybe less dynamic is a better description.... All the shots felt very similar, regardless of how the were struck. Plus, I found the (in)famous "clicky" sound of the Epons a real turn-off, like the ghastly metallic sounds that certain drivers have, although not as noticeable. The 502s looked slightly thicker at address, but I didn't bring my 2006s inside for a direct comparison. I also felt the 502s set up with perceptibly less offset, which I liked, but wouldn't want to swear to that without seeing comparable clubs side-by-side. I definitely prefer the backs of the 502s to the 2006s, which I find pretty busy. My overall impression was that the 502s would appeal to a wider range of golfers than the 2006s, but are not quite the right club for me. (For the sake of completeness, I should mention the other Miura CBs I tried, the 301s and 3003s. Neither of these models performed well for me, so I'd have to rate them behind the 2006s and 502s, in that order, in terms of performance. I couldn't get either set to settle down in terms of dispersion; they just sprayed all over the place. FWIW, I prefer the looks of the 3003s to the 502s, but like the 502s looks more than the 301s.)

Onto the 302s. I really liked the look of them at all angles (and the Yururis, but that's a different story), and I felt like I was going to crush the ball. Sadly, no. Unlike the smooth-swinging 502s, these came down from the backswing heavier, and I never found a real groove with them. In that regard, they were like the Miura 501s, which I wanted to love, but never found a really solid groove with either (and which would probably appeal to similar players). Because I hit both so erratically, I can't really comment on feel, except to say that good hits with both clubs were like nirvana. Much nicer than the previously-mentioned Miura 301s or 3003s, neither of which ever "sang" to me. Neither the 501s nor the 302s ever felt harsh. It's probably worth noting that the 302s don't have the annoying clicky sound of the 502s, since they don't have the hollow spot in their back. On a purely personal note, I prefer the Miuras to the Epons by a huge margin, because I think the Miuras are knock-down, drop-dead, gorgeous clubs.

Now to the 702s. These were the absolute runts of the Epon litter, in my opinion. They looked fat at address, they had no feel at all, and I couldn't detect that they were any more forgiving at all than the 502s. I hit them well enough, but was - frankly - thoroughly unimpressed by them. Bleah! Of the Miuras I tried, I think they are most comparable to the PP 9003s, which, incidentally, were my least favorite of the Miuras. I prefer the look of the 9003s overall. Specifically, I think the 9003s might have a slightly thinner topline (but defer to others who have seen them side-by-side), and I prefer the look at address and in the bag. I definitely didn't think the 9003s looked as bloated when I tried them as I did the 702s. But aesthetics aren't where the rubber hits the road (or, in my case, where the iron hits the astroturf). In terms of performance, I found the 702s to be more forgiving than the 9003s, which jarred my hands perceptibly on even slight mis**ts. This was surprising, as the 9003s are meant to be "friendly"' yet these were the only clubs, Epon or Miura, that I had this problem with.

So, in summary, having now tried all the current-model cavity backs I care to at the moment from these two heavyweight companies (except maybe the Miura CB-202, which I really like the looks of), I would choose them as follows FOR MY GAME:

1) Miura CB-2006 (pure and easy)

2) Epon AF-502 (forgiving, but lacks sensitivity)

3) Miura CB-501 (would require more practice and an improved game, which are excellent incentives!)

4) Epon AF-302 (ditto)

5) Miura CB-3003 (I could have hit these a lot better; if so, possibly a better choice than the CB-501 or AF-302)

6) Miura CB-301 (ditto, but I liked them slightly less than the 3003s)

7) Epon AF-702 (average at best; many better options out there)

8) Miura PP-9003 (no excuse for the harshness)

To round it out without any specific commentary, of the other clubs I tried, I'd put the Yamaha Inpres Xs slightly in front of the AF-502s; the Mizuno MP-53s only slightly behind the CB-501s; and the OnOffs and the Fourteens comfortably ahead of the AF-302s. Oh yeah, and I'd be trying a LOT of other clubs before picking up the AF-702s or PP-9003s again. Let me know if you'd like

would love if some can add the Romaro Ray H's into the equation. Im thinking of getting a set. Cheers