BLADES: CHIKARA, MIURAISM, ROYAL COLLECTION, OTHERS

[Ara selai]

Recently, I've been discussing blade options with a bunch of people...

First, I got interested in Miura's 1957 baby blades. Then, I hit Yamaha's 2011 Tour blades and thought I'd fallen in love. Then I hit Miuraism SC-01s, which aren't really blades, but are definitely more blade-like than most cavity backs, and I REALLY fell in love. Then, I started looking at Miuraism SB-01s and 02s, and realized I was on the slippery club ho slope...AGAIN!

To wit, I was in the process of arranging to borrow SB-01 and SB-02 7-irons to test, when I got a separate email suggesting I look at Royal Collection's RC Forged blades (photos in GTI ProShop) and Carlton Masui's Chikara Designs MB-1 irons (photos at http://www.chikaradesigns.com/products/mb1_images.html).

So now, needless to say, I've slipped a good way down the slope, and am hoping to get some additional perspective. Anyone out there care to share their thoughts on any of these specific clubs, or recommend yet more alternatives?

• Yamaha Tour blade
  
• Miura 1957 baby blades
  
• Miura Tournament blade
  
• Miuraism SC-01
  
• Miuraism SB-01
  
• Miuraism SB-02
  
• Royal Collection RC Forged blade
  
• Chikara MB-1 blade
  

As mentioned, I'm going to hit the Miuraism SBs (and have hit the Yamahas and Miuraism SCs), so I'll use them as my 'reference' sets going forward. If you've hit any of those, and can compare them specifically to YOUR favorite blade, that would be really helpful.

Obviously, my list isn't exhaustive, and it isn't meant to be. There are more than enough posts already covering the topic of 'favorite' or 'best' blades. What I'm looking for is feedback about a select few clubs, and suggestions of others similar to the ones I listed. I think I'd prefer smaller, denser heads, which appeal to me more on an aesthetic front, but I won't be sure until I hit the SB-01s. (By way of explanation, I absolutely love my Miura KM-350 putter, and am looking for blades that perform along the same lines and feel like it does, to the degree that irons and putters can be similar.)

Meanwhile, one of the other guys I've been talking to is after something more like the SB-02s or Tournament blades, and he's trying to pick new clubs urgently before a killer golf trip to Bali at the end of November, so again, SPECIFIC FEEDBACK is what we're both after. Some things to consider, in no particular order: flight, feel, forgiveness (such as it is in blades), size, workability, appearance (especially at set-up, so topline thinness), sole width, grind, spin, distance, loft true to standard or not (where 7i = 35 degrees, for the sake of comparison), best conditions for playing (lush, hardpan, links,...), and so on.

For what it's worth, and to kick things off, I think the Chikaras LOOK absolutely fantastic (especially the knife-edge topline and the cool sole grind), and, from what I can gather elsewhere online, Carlton Masui has an excellent reputation. In particular, his wedges (Chikara, and his previous work at Gauge) seem to be very well regarded. But what I'd like to know is if anyone's had the opportunity to actually play his irons and can describe how they PERFORM? Are they as good as they look? Does anyone know anything at all about his forgings? I'm highly unlikely to find a set to demo here in JKT, so am hoping that someone can help me out on these in particular. Pictures may say a lot, but they don't tell the whole story. (Oh, and yes, I know they're not JDM in the strict sense, but there's clearly a JDM lineage in there!)

Here's another particular question: how do the RCs compare to the others? I have a soft spot for RC clubs, but I can't find one of these to demo, and head size specs are scarcer than hen's teeth for these; are they closer to, for example, the Miura 1957s or the Miura Tournament Blades or the SB-02s? (I think that's the right head size progression, from smallest to largest) And what are their pros and cons in comparison to any of the others?

In fact, it would be really helpful if you could list the pros and cons of any club you discuss. What did you love? What did you hate? What compromises did you have to make in your selection? Was there one you really wish you'd bought, or were sorry to have sold?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide! Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

[mygreenaliem]

Recently, I've been discussing blade options with a bunch of people...

First, I got interested in Miura's 1957 baby blades. Then, I hit Yamaha's 2011 Tour blades and thought I'd fallen in love. Then I hit Miuraism SC-01s, which aren't really blades, but are definitely more blade-like than most cavity backs, and I REALLY fell in love. Then, I started looking at Miuraism SB-01s and 02s, and realized I was on the slippery club ho slope...AGAIN!

To wit, I was in the process of arranging to borrow SB-01 and SB-02 7-irons to test, when I got a separate email suggesting I look at Royal Collection's RC Forged blades (photos in GTI ProShop) and Carlton Masui's Chikara Designs MB-1 irons (photos at http://www.chikaradesigns.com/products/mb1_images.html).

So now, needless to say, I've slipped a good way down the slope, and am hoping to get some additional perspective. Anyone out there care to share their thoughts on any of these specific clubs, or recommend yet more alternatives?

• Yamaha Tour blade
  
• Miura 1957 baby blades
  
• Miura Tournament blade
  
• Miuraism SC-01
  
• Miuraism SB-01
  
• Miuraism SB-02
  
• Royal Collection RC Forged blade
  
• Chikara MB-1 blade
  

As mentioned, I'm going to hit the Miuraism SBs (and have hit the Yamahas and Miuraism SCs), so I'll use them as my 'reference' sets going forward. If you've hit any of those, and can compare them specifically to YOUR favorite blade, that would be really helpful.

Obviously, my list isn't exhaustive, and it isn't meant to be. There are more than enough posts already covering the topic of 'favorite' or 'best' blades. What I'm looking for is feedback about a select few clubs, and suggestions of others similar to the ones I listed. I think I'd prefer smaller, denser heads, which appeal to me more on an aesthetic front, but I won't be sure until I hit the SB-01s. (By way of explanation, I absolutely love my Miura KM-350 putter, and am looking for blades that perform along the same lines and feel like it does, to the degree that irons and putters can be similar.)

Meanwhile, one of the other guys I've been talking to is after something more like the SB-02s or Tournament blades, and he's trying to pick new clubs urgently before a killer golf trip to Bali at the end of November, so again, SPECIFIC FEEDBACK is what we're both after. Some things to consider, in no particular order: flight, feel, forgiveness (such as it is in blades), size, workability, appearance (especially at set-up, so topline thinness), sole width, grind, spin, distance, loft true to standard or not (where 7i = 35 degrees, for the sake of comparison), best conditions for playing (lush, hardpan, links,...), and so on.

For what it's worth, and to kick things off, I think the Chikaras LOOK absolutely fantastic (especially the knife-edge topline and the cool sole grind), and, from what I can gather elsewhere online, Carlton Masui has an excellent reputation. In particular, his wedges (Chikara, and his previous work at Gauge) seem to be very well regarded. But what I'd like to know is if anyone's had the opportunity to actually play his irons and can describe how they PERFORM? Are they as good as they look? Does anyone know anything at all about his forgings? I'm highly unlikely to find a set to demo here in JKT, so am hoping that someone can help me out on these in particular. Pictures may say a lot, but they don't tell the whole story. (Oh, and yes, I know they're not JDM in the strict sense, but there's clearly a JDM lineage in there!)

Here's another particular question: how do the RCs compare to the others? I have a soft spot for RC clubs, but I can't find one of these to demo, and head size specs are scarcer than hen's teeth for these; are they closer to, for example, the Miura 1957s or the Miura Tournament Blades or the SB-02s? (I think that's the right head size progression, from smallest to largest) And what are their pros and cons in comparison to any of the others?

In fact, it would be really helpful if you could list the pros and cons of any club you discuss. What did you love? What did you hate? What compromises did you have to make in your selection? Was there one you really wish you'd bought, or were sorry to have sold?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide! Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

The slippery slope your on results in endless pleasure!

I have Miura tournament (6 - pw) and have had them for 5 years. They are simply fantastic to hit and I find them quite forgiving but if you do hit a bad shot the club will tell you! (though shaft and grip combo can help towards removing the bad feeling. For me, the feel you receive when hitting a pure or as near damn it is worth the search for the next one, and the next one......

Pros - the feel they give, looks, weight. You just know your hitting something made by true craftsmen, and the passion they have passes onto you.

Cons - the pure shot makes you go on a relentless search for more!

I like them so much I have just ordered the limited edition set!

[swisstrader]

What, no love for Epons?! Seriously, if you're looking at the clubs you're looking at, you MUST include Epons. As an ugly American, I had no clue about Epons....Miuras were about as exotic as it got for me, but hitting a whole slew of irons, the epon 502's ended up blowing away everything else I tested in terms of feel, ball speed, looks, etc.

Also not trying to be a jerk, but why as a 25 handicap are you going with blades?

[Eca]

Hey Ara,

Ur ball striking is obviously pretty good with your selection of irons. The modern blades are definitely a lot more forgiving than the older design.

My previous irons were Mizuno mp68 with KBS tours. Beautiful irons during dry firm conditions. Combo is definitely forgiving with high ballflight. Struggled during wet/soft conditions due to it's low bounce.

This led me to the 1957s with KBS C Tapers.

Pros: narrow heel to toe gives gr8 turf interaction and a different swing feel to normal size heads." Combo is very tight dispersion, it showed how bad my chipping around the green is. Same head weight as standard size heads so it packs a punch. Versatile bounce, firm, soft conditions is no problem. Feel wise? Very addictive. Looks? Its singing I'm sexy & I know it.

Cons: can be intimidating at first size wise. But the bal looks bigger which I prefer

My hcp has plummeted 3.4 strokes and it's not summer yet where I tend to shoot even better.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Epon AF-Tour

Yonex Ezone MB

Miura MB5003

Yururi Raw MB

I would be going for those.

[ukok]

Although not JDM, I have just taken delivery (yesterday) of a set of Miura 1957 small blades with TT Monaco shafts. Ridiculously small but frames the ball perfectly and a lot easier to play with than expected.

Ball flight perfect with a slightly harder feel than the Epon's but in my opinion more satisfying. No distance loss from my Yuyuri's with crazy shafts in fact a distance gain. Definitely my gamers for now.

My previous Miura MB500's had the same feel which I think is common with all Miura clubs, I think the 1957's are slightly better, the head is slightly denser and when hit of the sweet spot, wow.

Wish I could try the Miuraism range but little chance in the UK.

I remember my instructor looking at the Miura MB5003's with disgust and saying only only low single digit handicappers should be playing blades, I sold them a few weeks later and have regretted ever since, handicap went up and up. He is no longer my instructor and

the new blades have arrived.

p.s. The TT Monaco are the best metal shafts, I have played, playing the KBS wedge shaft in my Chikara's, which feel like nothing after the Monaco's. Any thoughts on a new wedge iron shaft?

[Ara selai]

@ukok. Whats your opinion of the Chikara wedges? As no one seems to have experience with the irons.

[Ara selai]

@ eca & swisstrader. Playing irons is not the reason for my handicap. It's my diabolical short game and erratic tee shots. So I'm hearing the siren call of blades to see how the other half lives. Amd after hitting the Yamaha Tours, I understand the appeal. They're not nearly the bear that I thought they'd be! Plus, There's the school of thought that says I will learn more from blades than CBs. As far a Epon vs Miura, I already had my mulligan on that topic. I really like the way Epons hit, but for whatever reason, have gravitated towards Miura out of the two. If I can find an AF TOUR to hit, though, you can bet it will be on the list! They look nice!

[ukok]

@ukok. Whats your opinion of the Chikara wedges? As no one seems to have experience with the irons.

I have the Prototype V2 wedges, not the current range, they are excellent as good if not better than any.

[Ara selai]

@ ukok or others. Anyone know who Chikara uses for their forgings? Carl won't say (trade secret, apparently for competitive advantage purposes, which I understand completely), but is there any gossip? He says they're better than Kyoei, who he used to use....

[Vegaman]

@ ukok or others. Anyone know who Chikara uses for their forgings? Carl won't say (trade secret, apparently for competitive advantage purposes, which I understand completely), but is there any gossip? He says they're better than Kyoei, who he used to use....

I would have thought Kyoei..So, Endo? How many can there be? I actually think its a bit weird to not offer the info on who forges the clubs you sell. It's usually a selling point isn't it? Like Yamaha, Tourstage, Bridgestone and others actually mentioning Endo in their marketing at times? Or Yururi, Vega using Kyoei and don't hide it. Miura forging themselves, Mizuno with Chou etc etc. Unless Carl has his own forging house (which he don't have of course) it sounds a bit fishy to claim the source as some sort of "trade secret" unless it's an embarrasment?

[Ara selai]

The Chikaras are apparently "made in Japan" per their website. No claims that the forging is Japanese, so I tend to think perhaps not.... But who knows? Those who have hit their wedges seem very pleased with them, in any case. It's not too important to me, if they perform. If no one's got any experience with the irons, it may be a moot point anyway.

[Vegaman]

The Chikaras are apparently "made in Japan" per their website. No claims that the forging is Japanese, so I tend to think perhaps not.... But who knows? Those who have hit their wedges seem very pleased with them, in any case. It's not too important to me, if they perform. If no one's got any experience with the irons, it may be a moot point anyway.

They are pretty new aren't they? I like how they look too! Pretty certain they are Japanese forged, but maybe he won't tell who forges them because of the risk of finding out that there are other brands using the same forging house that might cost less? Say, if Geotech is doing the forging for him and, as good as they are, people would think that Chikara is using the 500 dollar blanks Geotech sell a lot of, and so are "overpriced"?

The reason other makers are quick to point out that they use Kyoei or Endo for example, probably has something to do with the fact that you wont find "budget" clubs forged by them..They will be quite picey no matter what, even if the prices varies a bit between brands anyway of course, because of finishing, grind, and reputation.

[swisstrader]

Broken link on chikara blades.

Recently, I've been discussing blade options with a bunch of people...

First, I got interested in Miura's 1957 baby blades. Then, I hit Yamaha's 2011 Tour blades and thought I'd fallen in love. Then I hit Miuraism SC-01s, which aren't really blades, but are definitely more blade-like than most cavity backs, and I REALLY fell in love. Then, I started looking at Miuraism SB-01s and 02s, and realized I was on the slippery club ho slope...AGAIN!

To wit, I was in the process of arranging to borrow SB-01 and SB-02 7-irons to test, when I got a separate email suggesting I look at Royal Collection's RC Forged blades (photos in GTI ProShop) and Carlton Masui's Chikara Designs MB-1 irons (photos at http://www.chikaradesigns.com/products/mb1_images.html).

So now, needless to say, I've slipped a good way down the slope, and am hoping to get some additional perspective. Anyone out there care to share their thoughts on any of these specific clubs, or recommend yet more alternatives?

• Yamaha Tour blade
  
• Miura 1957 baby blades
  
• Miura Tournament blade
  
• Miuraism SC-01
  
• Miuraism SB-01
  
• Miuraism SB-02
  
• Royal Collection RC Forged blade
  
• Chikara MB-1 blade
  

As mentioned, I'm going to hit the Miuraism SBs (and have hit the Yamahas and Miuraism SCs), so I'll use them as my 'reference' sets going forward. If you've hit any of those, and can compare them specifically to YOUR favorite blade, that would be really helpful.

Obviously, my list isn't exhaustive, and it isn't meant to be. There are more than enough posts already covering the topic of 'favorite' or 'best' blades. What I'm looking for is feedback about a select few clubs, and suggestions of others similar to the ones I listed. I think I'd prefer smaller, denser heads, which appeal to me more on an aesthetic front, but I won't be sure until I hit the SB-01s. (By way of explanation, I absolutely love my Miura KM-350 putter, and am looking for blades that perform along the same lines and feel like it does, to the degree that irons and putters can be similar.)

Meanwhile, one of the other guys I've been talking to is after something more like the SB-02s or Tournament blades, and he's trying to pick new clubs urgently before a killer golf trip to Bali at the end of November, so again, SPECIFIC FEEDBACK is what we're both after. Some things to consider, in no particular order: flight, feel, forgiveness (such as it is in blades), size, workability, appearance (especially at set-up, so topline thinness), sole width, grind, spin, distance, loft true to standard or not (where 7i = 35 degrees, for the sake of comparison), best conditions for playing (lush, hardpan, links,...), and so on.

For what it's worth, and to kick things off, I think the Chikaras LOOK absolutely fantastic (especially the knife-edge topline and the cool sole grind), and, from what I can gather elsewhere online, Carlton Masui has an excellent reputation. In particular, his wedges (Chikara, and his previous work at Gauge) seem to be very well regarded. But what I'd like to know is if anyone's had the opportunity to actually play his irons and can describe how they PERFORM? Are they as good as they look? Does anyone know anything at all about his forgings? I'm highly unlikely to find a set to demo here in JKT, so am hoping that someone can help me out on these in particular. Pictures may say a lot, but they don't tell the whole story. (Oh, and yes, I know they're not JDM in the strict sense, but there's clearly a JDM lineage in there!)

Here's another particular question: how do the RCs compare to the others? I have a soft spot for RC clubs, but I can't find one of these to demo, and head size specs are scarcer than hen's teeth for these; are they closer to, for example, the Miura 1957s or the Miura Tournament Blades or the SB-02s? (I think that's the right head size progression, from smallest to largest) And what are their pros and cons in comparison to any of the others?

In fact, it would be really helpful if you could list the pros and cons of any club you discuss. What did you love? What did you hate? What compromises did you have to make in your selection? Was there one you really wish you'd bought, or were sorry to have sold?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide! Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

[Ara selai]

google "chikara designs mb-1". you'll get there....

[Ara selai]

...No claims that the forging is Japanese, so I tend to think perhaps not.... But who knows?

IMPORTANT CORRECTION/CLARIFICATION: I was quite wrong, it turns out. Carl stated in an email that his irons are "forged in Japan" at a foundry he does not want to disclose, to avoid other companies following his trend. I can actually appreciate his circumspection: if he believes he's onto something in the forgings that differentiates his clubs, it definitely represents "competitive advantage" to keep his source secret. [An analogy: Would Coca Cola give away its secret recipe to other companies? I doubt it. But if they did, I'll bet there would be a lot of afficianados on the DrinkColaToImpress forum who might think, "Yes, now that I know how they make it, I appreciate it SO much more and it TASTES so much better!"] Also, it adds a bit of mystique!

Of note, Carl says that he prefers this new foundry "in every way possible" to the foundry he used previously. And that's saying a lot!

[+TourSpecGolfer]

It's all open model irons, wedges are open model raw heads. nothing original. Even the putter is a 2 piece open model. It's your money but if your gonna drop serious coin on irons I suggest making sure it's more than just a different grind on it.

We know someone at just about every foundry in Japan. There is nothing he is using thats so much better than anything else out there. They may each have their specialty but when it comes to these smaller japanese foundries nothing is that ground breakingly different.

Also keep in mind the sales pitch is targeted to the golfing masses. Most educated TSG'ers can see right through the smoke and mirrors.