Vegaman Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Now, I know that there is no such thing as a standardised, industry-wide set of parameters when it comes to shaft flex, but why are brands using different standards among their own models? A Bassara stiff will flex out much softer than a Kai'li stiff for example, and there are countless other examples. But why? Why not jut label a Bassara stiff as a Regular? Or a Kai'li stiff as an Xstiff if they insist calling the Bassara "stiff"? It just does not make any sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 marketing ? like it helps to sell regular if you write stiff on it and senior if you write regular etc because some people would feel less of a man otherwise. just a guess ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 ive heard that beofre, but i dont think its right. but if u look at the guys on here, no one wants a shaft thats too hard for them , i think the majority go for a slightyl too soft over a too hard. i guess thats bec guys here are much better educated than the "norm" but even with jonny chopchop, they all go softer. i think the crazy guys have the best system... theres no s sx x r theres just a number that eqautes to a stiffness crazy ls noir 6.9 i like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 in all seriousness all those flex systems mean nothing really. say they design and produce a specific model and it goes from this cpm to that cpm so they divide and label it to flexes like r/s/x/xx whatever. to you carzy 6.9 might mean something and to me it means nothing because i have no idea which system they use exactly to figure out the ballpark. personally i tend to look at weight and torque and kickpoint and that can kinda tell me what to expect but otherwise its like that box of chocolate you never know what you gonna get. they aint gonna agree on a single flex system anytime soon, i dont think so. on top of that there are discrepancies in how it can feel versus how it can actually play and be a good fit or not feel aside. just too many variables to match by flex only and that why fitters exist. off the shelf products, not talking jdm here, are all over the place so labeling them with any system is kinda pointless. forget all that flex stuff, ask Tario or go see your local fitter before spending your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 forget all that flex stuff, ask Tario or go see your local fitter before spending your money. never a truer word spoken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegaman Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) So, a TJ 80 6.9 will flex out at the same frequency as a RD 6.9? I have never checked it, but I somehow doubt it. Edited May 22, 2012 by Vegaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegaman Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) in all seriousness all those flex systems mean nothing really. say they design and produce a specific model and it goes from this cpm to that cpm so they divide and label it to flexes like r/s/x/xx whatever. to you carzy 6.9 might mean something and to me it means nothing because i have no idea which system they use exactly to figure out the ballpark. personally i tend to look at weight and torque and kickpoint and that can kinda tell me what to expect but otherwise its like that box of chocolate you never know what you gonna get. they aint gonna agree on a single flex system anytime soon, i dont think so. on top of that there are discrepancies in how it can feel versus how it can actually play and be a good fit or not feel aside. just too many variables to match by flex only and that why fitters exist. off the shelf products, not talking jdm here, are all over the place so labeling them with any system is kinda pointless. forget all that flex stuff, ask Tario or go see your local fitter before spending your money. I don't think we will see a single flex system, ever. But within a a certain brand it should actually be expected, why use different standards when it comes to flex between different models? That's just plain stupid. Like, for Mitsubishi: "Ok. for the Bassara series we will call 230 cpm a stiff, and for the White board 230 cpm will be a regular, and for a Red Board, well let's go with SR" etc etc. It just seems so terribly illogical and even misleading. Edited May 22, 2012 by Vegaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegaman Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 marketing ? like it helps to sell regular if you write stiff on it and senior if you write regular etc because some people would feel less of a man otherwise. just a guess ;) You might be on to something, especially since it's the UL shafts that are the most "mislabeled", they are as good as always labeled as being stiffer than they "should be". No fun for the slow swingers if the stiffest Bassara would be called a "soft regular" and the rest would be like Junior, Ladies, and Senior flex I guess.. That's why there are are these weird names for the softer flexes, like my favourite "Royal Flex", I mean c'mon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 because designs are different. for example you can have two different designs that would cpm roughly the same but have different torque numbers and one would play softer than the other. there are other things involved like what clubhead weight they design for. with graphite they can do alot of different things by using different fiber materials and different fiber orientations. because of that no single number or label can accurately reflect how specific shaft is designed and how its gonna play and more importantly how its gonna play for you. i understand your frustration but it is how it is. I don't think we will see a single flex system, ever. But within a a certain brand it should actually be expected, why use different standards when it comes to flex between different models? That's just plain stupid. Like, for Mitsubishi: "Ok. for the Bassara series we will call 230 cpm a stiff, and for the White board 230 cpm will be a regular, and for a Red Board, well let's go with SR" etc etc. It just seems so terribly illogical and even misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIduffer Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Wouldn't it be great if the shaft makers would use a better table than just SS to define what flex to use... Something like head weight coupled with SS and shaft length so one could easily look up in a chart... Its not like they don't already do some of that testing anyway. And isn't there that big book of shafts that Tario has include much of that detail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Ant is exactly right, so many different factors reflect stiffness of a shaft including design and the fact is Bassara and Diamama while both made by Mitsubishi are different materials, different designs and usually targeting different players. weight, torque, materials, kickpoints, tip stiffness. center stiffness, butt stiffness all affect general "flex". A 40g stiff flex will of course be softer than a 70g stiff flex but even that is a generalization. A stiff flex RoyDeco will cpm out less than an R flex TJ80, but the types of players going after these two shafts would be completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 ive hit both the crazy black and the crazy noir series and the noir series at 7.7 is much whippier than the 7.7 black series even at comparable weight class ! * Crazy is a bit of a weird shaft, some guys swear it is too stiff and another playing using the same shaft will find the shaft too whippy......Ive found through trial and error that when Crazy says a certain shaft is for smooth swingers and certain shafts are for agressive hitters, they really do mean it !!!! some guys think they are aggressive but they have no idea that there are agressive swingers out there ! Just started playing presidio golf course by my house, they must raise monsters here !!!! Ive walked on as a single player four individual times and all 4 times there were guys longer than me in the group and im not talking about 5-10 yards longer, im talking 30-50 yards of carry longer and 2 clubs on irons and my irons are jacked ! 2 deg strong and half inch over .....Also, its not just one person in my group, its usually 2 players and a couple of times it was 3 players !!!! I hit the ball pretty damn far but these guys are in another zip code.......they refer to me as a short knocker with a great short game, as they pay up : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegaman Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Ant is exactly right, so many different factors reflect stiffness of a shaft including design and the fact is Bassara and Diamama while both made by Mitsubishi are different materials, different designs and usually targeting different players. weight, torque, materials, kickpoints, tip stiffness. center stiffness, butt stiffness all affect general "flex". A 40g stiff flex will of course be softer than a 70g stiff flex but even that is a generalization. A stiff flex RoyDeco will cpm out less than an R flex TJ80, but the types of players going after these two shafts would be completely different. Yes, I understand all this but why? Just so the people going for lightweight shafts don't feel inferior? Why not just offer the royal deco up to Regular then? If there are so many variables etc etc why is it that it just so happens that the lighter weight "smooth swingers shaft" always come out as very soft? Why have 7.7 or stiff or whatever writen on the shafts at all? It's just terribly illogical. CPM is at least one part of the equation and the most used when it comes to measure shaft stiffness, so why insist on labeling a shaft at 230 cpm as "stiff"? Why not just call it regular and that's it? I mean AT LEAST use the same cpm standards within a certain brand, be it Crazy or Mitsubushi or any other shaft. That different shaft brands have different standards is a fact of life, but why have several different measurement standards within a brand? Does NOT make sense. Edited July 20, 2012 by Vegaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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