face progression... blades

[313]

hello...

i have been looking to invest in a new set of blades, and one of the most important visual cues for me is offset, where the least amount wins. from looking through the tsg store, have compiled a list of blade offerings and the face progression in mm. as i understand it, the leading edge of the club face is measured to the hossle/shaft centerline. the higher the mm value, the less the traditional 'offset'. my guess is that 6.0mm +/- is what would visually appear as zero offset, but i can imagine the total hossle thickness having an effect...?

i cannot find the information for mizuno, yamaha & yururi... am curious about the yamaha blades, as i hear those might be a contender for least offset. but here is the list:

fourteen fh1000 - - 3-6= 4.8mm, 7-P= 5.1mm

george spirits gtpro - - 3-7= 4.0mm, 8= 4.5mm, 9-P= 4.8mm

geotech quelot - - 3= 1.5mm, 4-5= 2.0mm, 6-7= 2.5mm, 8-9= 3.0mm, P= 3.5mm

geotech n17 prototype - - 3= 3.5mm, 4-5= 4.0mm, 6= 4.5mm, 7-8= 5.0mm, 9= 5.5mm, P= 6.0mm

honma pp737 - - 3-4= 3.75mm, 5-7= 4.25mm, 8-P= 4.75mm

honma beres pro ip - - 3-5= 4.75mm, 6-8= 5.25mm, 9-P= 6.05mm

maruman conductor - - 3= 3.0mm, 4= 3.2mm, 5= 3.4mm, 6= 3.6mm, 7= 3.8mm, 8= 4.0mm, 9= 4.2mm, P= 4.5mm

miura sb01 - - 4.5mm (3) - 5.5mm (P)

miura 5003 - - 4.0mm (3) - 6.0mm (P)

mizuno mp69 - - ??? see note at bottom

romaro pro forged - - 3= 3.5mm, 4-5= 4.0mm, 6-7= 4.5mm, 8-P= 5.0mm

royal collection rc forged - - 3= 4.5mm, 4-5= 4.8mm, 6-P= 5.0mm

srixon z925 - - 3-5= 4.0, 6= 4.2mm, 7= 4.4mm, 8= 4.6mm, 9= 4.9mm, P= 5.3mm

tourstage 909 - - 3-4= 4.25mm, 5-7= 4.75mm, 8-P= 5.25mm

yamaha v forged pro - - ???

yururi flat back - - ???

mizuno, oddly enough, has the mp69 on the us website where they list offset in inches. however, i am not sure as to how they measure it... maybe from the outside left edge of the hossle as zero & their value deducted to the leading edge...? i can see the offset, so this is why i suggested the calculation. but the values are:

3-7= .110", 8-9= .102", P= .094"

epon seems to do the same thing as mizuno, though in mm... measured as a deduction from the inside/left edge of the hossle...? values listed (didnt find the personals) :

3= 3.4mm, 4= 3.2mm, 5= 3.0mm, 6= 2.8mm, 7= 2.6mm, 8= 2.4mm, 9= 2.2mm, P= 2.0mm

it would also be nice to have a face length and topline comparison, for easy reference. i am in the us, so actually seeing the clubs is somewhat difficult... measurements is what i have, lol.

[coops1967]

You could always go full lovely Mizuno - check out the model you prefer anywhere in the USA, then one you've chosen a model get a Yoro custom order made to your finish and the offset reduced to your own specification.

[jimmieboi]

Agree to the above reply. I had mine in mp69 Yoro craft in the minimal offset they can do. Results...almost no offset. I have the yururi and I can tell the Yoro craft mp69 is very straight when compare to yururi flat back.

[313]

got to admit, i play 29's... have had em for a while. tsg was kind enough to work me up a quote on the 69's. from my understanding they can only bend the clubs back by .5mm, and although i cant read the captions, think the tsg yoro page samples a 6iron for the progression where 3.8mm is standard, 4.3mm would be after the custom adjustment. its about a .02" reduction... 1/64"... appx 20% reduction from standard. wish it could be a little less.

i like the 69's... like the idea that they are soft too. actually like the look of the ts909 with what appears to be a really thin top line, squared tip and less rounded/bulged out toe. the top line on the mizunos have always seemed thick(er) (ish) to older, more traditional blades. but with ts909 specs at 4.25mm down to 5.25mm, they are just a sliver of less offset vs the yoros. i would almost pull the trigger but iv heard the ts to be a bit firm/clicky.

really do appreciate everyone's perspective... would like to get the impressions of those that have been able to compare these clubs. so, indeed, thank you. its a big deal for me... kind of like getting my dream set, going to splurge on it & want to get it as close to 'right' as possible. ;-)

my criteria:

- butter soft

- no offset

- super thin topline

- up/down toe with a less rounded bulge

thanks again for the insights!

Edited June 9, 2013 by 313

[RIduffer]

You might give the RomaRo Pro Forged a shot.

Alternately the Bucchi irons are supposed to be fully customizable as well.

Edited June 9, 2013 by RIduffer

[tomcat]

honma tw717m?

[ant]

you are basically looking for a more old school classic blade and from current jdm stuff thats miura, no contest. least amount of offset, thinnest top line and overall more classic shape. the only thing that might not fit your criteria is that miura are not as soft as some other jdm stuff. if you like it mizuno mushy kinda soft then miura gonna be more solid harder feeling but it tells you exactly where you make contact and any softer feel would just blur it to the point where you start to lose feedback if thats important to you.

among current blade models you probably wont find anything with zero offset straight neck boxed toe kinda thing. maybe one of those custom shops can do custom shape grind and bend to get rid of offset completely but i'd imagine its gonna cost you pretty penny coz thats alot of pain in the ass kinda work to do. i know scratch custom dept can do that for you and they charge accordingly, probably some jdm brands can do the same, like buchi mentioned above, maybe some others too but none of the top brands would do that, i dont think so.

my criteria:

- butter soft

- no offset

- super thin topline

- up/down toe with a less rounded bulge

thanks again for the insights!

[ant]

something like this perhaps :)

Edited June 9, 2013 by ant

[Craig]

Mate

My criteria are almost identical to yours.

I am staring at my 2 current sets.

Miurism SB 01 and custom Mizuno MP 69

If I had to pick I would choose the Miurisms every time.

[313]

ant- lol, ya kinda shut me up on that blade! maybe not quite a dug up 16th century scottish relic ;-) but i hear ya. u remember the old ram tour grinds from the 80's? in my head, thats what i am kind of picturing. she was a dainty club... small face length but kind of tall, super thin top, squared toe, straight leading edge... set up easy to the target, felt as if i could snip the ball off asphalt, and cut out a chunk if i wanted.

craig- i had a chance to hit the us baby blade version, but it was entirely wrong for me... long by almost an inch & upright, where i need 1/4-1/2 short and 1-2flat, he had an x board in there too. everything was clicky for me and i never did really pure one, but the toe was sticking up to high heaven with the heal dug into the turf at address, not a fair trial to say the least. but she felt clicky vs 29's, which can be mushy no doubt. iv read that the 5002's were his softest offering... can those be special ordered still? i will say the size of the bb's was nice, though even that one had a thicker topline than i am picturing... maybe knock a quarter to a third off that thickness for what i am driving at. same deal with the mizunos... would want to take 1/3-1/2 off the topline.

i dont want to shave the entire back face, but just the top back edge... maybr an angled grind just so that from address it looks thin. maybe like how the put a heavy relief on the back edge of the sole. im going to copy some pics of the 69 & see if i cant photoshop it.

ri & tom- will check those out... is the honma the 20th anniversary model? i recall reading about her. il takr a look, same with the bucchi... first iv heard. have a scratch dealer local i can visit as well.

thanks again for the thoughts. i never ever thought i would be in a position to custom make clubs, one kinda geta sucked in i see. a few sessions with the grinder seems appropriate... what the heck, i can catch a frw double red eyes to & fro japan, lol.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

IMO you don't need a grinder or an iron with no offset, a little bit of offset is a good thing for forgiveness and performance.

With a 0 offset club you must be precise and square at impact. A little bit of offset gives you that split second extra to get the face to square or turn it over.

Yoro Mizuno or Buchi would be a good custom route to take. TourStage, Miura, Srixon are worth a look as far as OTR options go.

Going to a grinder and asking them to shave an area or angle a grind so it looks thin may not work. They will have certain limitations just as Miura, Mizuno or Tabuchi would have with the orig mold. Most OEMs won't go to 0 because they know the forgiveness would be diminished.

Find a head that looks the part, then make sure you have the loft, lie, length, swing weight, grip size, flex & weight proper.

[ant]

never had ram clubs but i did image search and ram tour grind looks like it has a bit of offset, definitely noticeable. miura 5003 top line is probably as thin as you can get. baby blade might be just a bit thicker because its a smaller head, i cant recall exactly because it was while back i had them in my mitts last time. alot of that has to do with how they grind it and what finish they use, like more rounded grind top line would look thinner, satin or any darker finish would look thinner too. if you want no offset you can get a set with the least amount of offset then take it to a good clubmaker and they can bend it to get rid of offset. the finish might suffer a bit but its doable. shape wise grinding to desired shape from a finished product wont work because they gonna shave too much weight so if the manufacturer doesnt offer that kinda deal they can do from their raw heads then it aint gonna work. you can pick a shape you like overall then grind it slightly for more rounded top line and sharper/flatter sole grind and bend it for no offset if you can find someone who can do it professionally for a reasonable price. you wont find anything modern exactly like that out of the box but if you do please let me know.

ant- lol, ya kinda shut me up on that blade! maybe not quite a dug up 16th century scottish relic ;-) but i hear ya. u remember the old ram tour grinds from the 80's? in my head, thats what i am kind of picturing. she was a dainty club... small face length but kind of tall, super thin top, squared toe, straight leading edge... set up easy to the target, felt as if i could snip the ball off asphalt, and cut out a chunk if i wanted.

[coops1967]

313 - is that blade above with 'zero' offset what you have in mind? With the leading edge pretty much in line with the front edge of the hosel?

The only 'modern' produced iron i've seen pictures of with that look is a set of custom Scratch.

Not my cup of tea - looks kind of 'spoony' somehow - but then Olazebal liked his forged MacGregors with offset cranked in to them, so each to his own!

If you like the leading edge in line with the front of the shaft as you look down at address (so there is offset from the hosel) then i've really liked the offset on the Epon AF-Tour blade (and the 302 cavity back, which has ofset specs almost identical) - and can be done in a ridiculously beautiful copper chrome.

Be careful just relying on the measurement numbers - make sure you have a look in person.

When the Epon Personals came out, I had a look at them at an Epon shop and could compare directly to the AF-Tour and 302's ... and to the eye (well, my eye ;-) ) the Personals looked like they had quite a lot more offset than the other two, but stated specs said otherwise.

Same way, the RF-551 looked like a lot less offset than the 'original' 501's... but apparently was largely due to how the hosel/face area was ground/finished.

Anyway, take your time... the Mizuno Yoro thread has my favourite Mizuno look in there, a set of double nickel satin blades

No pics of copper chrome Af-tours... but i've seen them and they are sexy enough to make me unfaithful to my CuChr 301's...