Shaft weight vs. Flex.

[JayDM]

Just thought that I would share a few experiences I've had recently as far as the bevy of shafts I tend to try out in my woods.... I've personally found that the weight of the shaft can be more important than the flex, or just about any other number they give you(not always, but often). A heavier weight shaft can often be flat out more stable for me than anything lighter weight, I consistently try shafts in a low to mid 60 gram range and no matter how stiff I go, my dispersion tends to be more erratic than with something heavier with a softer flex(within reason) and the heavier shaft will generally feel more stable throughout the swing, that's not to say that there haven't been lighter shafts that I've enjoyed, but A.) They tend to be fewer and further between then heavier shafts. and B.) When I find a lighter weight shaft I enjoy, it tends to only work for very specific setups. A few examples, I mentioned in another post that the original Royal Deco is a monster for me in the CRZ 460 head, I've tried it in other heads and it just is not a good match, I hook the heck out of it, that shaft is probably the lightest shaft I've ever played and enjoyed, but only in that one specific head. 2 less extreme examples, the FEX proto, in 75 SX probably one of my favorite all around shafts, I know the shaft backwards and forwards, it plays pretty neutral for me and I could put it in just about anything and get at the very least a good result, but give me a 65 gram FEX proto in ANY flex and the shaft doesn't suit me at all, the standard FEX is similar for me, I have a bit more room to move around flex wise as anything in the 75 gram range plays pretty solid for me(S, SX, or X, the TX is stiffer than I enjoy), but in the 65 gram range only the X will go OK for me and I wind up with better and tighter performance from anything in the 75 gram range including the Stiff. Now what really started to hammer this point home into my head has been my recent experiences with the Diamana B, my builder happened to get in a limited number of the B with the Japanese graphics, I grabbed a 60X 70S and 80S, I originally put the 60X in a driver and found pretty solid results, nothing particularly special, but I enjoyed the shaft and the results were not in any way bad, I brought it in to swap it out for the 70S in that head and he mentioned that it might be better if I try the 80S out in a driver, now in the past I've always tended to shy away from 80 gram+ shafts in a driver, I've always for some reason figured that I wouldn't get great results and or couldn't possibly benefit from an 80 gram+ shaft in a driver considering a lot of tour players with more aggressive swings than mine use 60-70 gram range shafts, but he knows what he's talking about so I figured "why not" and gave it a shot. Bottom line is I was absolutely CRUSHING the ball with that shaft, the results were pretty good with the 60X but they were EXCELLENT with the 80S, the shaft felt more stable, I could feel the head more throughout the swing and the shaft felt more powerful through impact, my ball flight with a normal swing was midish probably a touch higher than mid, but dead straight, and I didn't feel as if the shaft was fighting me at all for a draw or a fade, its rare for me to find a shaft I can hit a fairly consistent slightly higher flight fade with but also doesn't require tons of muscle for a draw, granted some adjustments did need to be made, but it was much easier to shape a ball off the tee than it was with the 60X. Most of what I took from this(besides that the Diaman B is excellent) is that I tend to do better with heavier shafts in a driver or 3 wood(utilities vary a bit more), and that for me personally the weight of the shaft is at least as important as the flex in a good deal of wood shafts(not all), this is information that's always kina been right in front of my face for a long while, yet I still tended to, when first trying a new shaft, try out a lighter 60 gram model, but hitting the 60 and 80 gram Diamana B back to back in the same head REALLY highlighted this for me and brought it to the forefront of my mind. Figured I would post this up, I'm sure it varies from player to player and these are only the results for me personally, but I would be interested to hear what other players have found as far as how important shaft weight is to them vs. flex.

[supo]

thats what ive been finding this year as well.

last year i went all 60X shafts bec the tour guys do it, no other reason

it didnt work for me at all.

i tended to push the ball or pull it. alot

my timing wasnt on with lighter set ups. i had no rhythm

this year ive gone the 75gram-82 grams in stiff. in a lot of drivers and im hitting with much more consistant results.

point in fact ,

this weekend i played the epon zero diamana X 60s 316 gram set up

and the maruman conductor 70s 323 gram

the maruman is about the average weight of all my driver builds.

but after i hit a lot of epons this small incremental weight differnce made a HUGE differnce in tempo and impact.

the lighter epon was , for the most part longer. i def noticed i was swinging harder / faster with it, and the big shots were prob 5+ yards longer.

one hole i hit 4 balls all went pure dead centre and the 2 epons were just longer. but noticebaly so to take one iron shorter and muscle up on it a bit

the differnce in feel was immeasurable.

man, if u can hit the middle of the driver A LOT , and u havent got a zero , ur missing out on something really special . that thing is on itts own.

however, the heavier maruman all day was just where i wanted it to be , it was like i cud almost just "put" the ball to a spot. ganted it was a bit shorter distance, but my tempo was more mechanical and rhythmic.

after one hell of a round practicing hitting balls...,

if i had won a contest ...... and as a choice to take one of these drivers as a gift. and only play one driver for a year

id take the maruman set up.

sure the good epon shots were delightfull but at that set up its def too light for what i prefer to play now. i liked hitting it a billion times better than the heavier maruman, but when u can just count on consistancy then u have to take it..

the bigegst de proof to me was the jbeam 425 tour and waccine gt88 last wekeend, that was just incredible.

agaisnt the kamui pro 60x , while there wasnt that much differnce i ndispersion. the safety i felt with the jbeam cant be quantified

im into heavy

[xxio]

Do you play the lighter shafts at a different length?

[lousifers]

JayDM, good post. I tend to agree with you. I've moved up the weight of iron shafts and found better dispersion. Thinking about doing that with driver shaft now. Just got TJ-46 coming.. a bit heavier than my S-513.

Mark

[JayDM]

Do you play the lighter shafts at a different length?

Length really doesn't enter the equation for me, drivers all play between 44.5-45.0, with about 95% playing either 44.5 or 44.75, one or two play 45 and only the CRZ460/Royal Deco plays longer than 45, and that was really a specialty build that just luckily turned out to work really well for me more often than I originally thought it would. Golf for me is about accuracy and consistency, at any level, I'm lucky enough to naturally generate a lot of power and hit the ball a pretty long way, and while being even longer would be nice, gaining more distance is a long way behind making sure I can always be consistent and accurate on my "things to do list".

[supo]

iron shafts def ring true for me as well.

lighter shaft in an X stiff r flex just make me swing faster and hit the ball higher.

it might stay pretty straight but it doesnt make it longer , if anythinng i tend to get a bit "handsy" and try to over pwer everything

i had this problem with the diamana thumps. they were too light. cudnt get my best tempo with them

(loved the feel of those shafts btw..., )

[wmclarenf1]

Interesting Jay. I'm actually thinking of going back to 60+ gram after toying with high 50+ grams shafts for a while.

While I can see how they feel more stable and could be better dispersion wise, have you noticed distance loses n average and what about out right longest drives?

[JayDM]

I've always played all sorts of different shafts and have at least tried most weight ranges, but honestly, no between a 60 gram and 75 gram shaft I don't see much of any distance loss at all, even into the 80 gram weight, if I hit 10 balls with each weight shaft and absolutely middle all of them I might see a 7 yard difference between the 60 and 80 gram weights, but take into account that with the 60 gram shafts I'll probably be slightly less than perfect more times than with a heavier weight than I probably see an overall distance gain with heavier shafts, taking that even further onto the course, I hit a lot of arcs off the tee, with the lighter shafts my draws are generally more pronounced and my fades are less consistent. Heavier weight shafts probably isn't the solution for everyone, probably isn't the solution for most, but my golf game has always been a bit backwards, when I first started understanding the game and equipment, and getting slightly serious about it I played X7's and XX wood shafts, I could always swing fast, was never a problem, my golf game really started to improve though when I began working almost everyday with a coach with the idea of easing up my swing and developing control, consistency, and accuracy, fast forward 6 years to today and while I probably swing 6-11(depends on the swing) MPH slower than I did when I started to take the game seriously I can expect to go out any given day and be in the neighborhood of par or below which wasn't even a thought while swinging faster and harder. You mentioned longest drives, my longest drives in perfect conditions are probably with the CRZ 460/ Royal Deco, that's a club that when everything comes together can usually get the ball out 300+ yards total distance, but conditions are not always perfect, and considering the longer length and lighter weight, everything comes together perfectly slightly less often then with other drivers. Taking a lot of factors into consideration(conditions, course, how well I'm striking the ball, etc.) I can be on average with various drivers anywhere between 275-295, but taking the Royal deco out of the equation, a lighter shaft weight generally doesn't always equate to more distance for me, the Diamana B 80 S shaft I was playing was probably averaging 290-292 on the range with excellent control while the distance with the 60X was in that realm distance wise maybe a yard or so less but with nowhere near the type of control I had with the heavier shaft, both days were gorgeous with barely a gust of wind, both shafts played in the same Epon 102 head at 44.75.

[supo]

i think u have to give this waccine gt 88 a whirl

id doubt ul need much more than the sx or whatever it is.

search for one. bec i dont htink ull come away disapointed.

its a heck of a shaft. think p9003x on roids

[wmclarenf1]

Thanks Jay.

[JayDM]

Was originally thinking the gr77, but after enjoying the 80 gram range Diamana B, I think the 88 is gonna be the way to go. Also think the graphics look really cool.

[IshikawaFAN]

Shaft weight controls launch angle and tempo. Flex affects the feel of the swing and rhythm in the transition A LOT.

If you go to far in flex or weight you will play miserable. It's much easier to tone it down than it is to keep up. Especially on the "OFF" days.

Best advice, I've heard and would like to pass on regarding shafts, is to use the lightest and softest that gives you the best results.

[Tim James]

Thanks for the schooling gents....another great informative posting

[xxio]

Length really doesn't enter the equation for me, drivers all play between 44.5-45.0, with about 95% playing either 44.5 or 44.75, one or two play 45 and only the CRZ460/Royal Deco plays longer than 45, and that was really a specialty build that just luckily turned out to work really well for me more often than I originally thought it would. Golf for me is about accuracy and consistency, at any level, I'm lucky enough to naturally generate a lot of power and hit the ball a pretty long way, and while being even longer would be nice, gaining more distance is a long way behind making sure I can always be consistent and accurate on my "things to do list".

I have found when I play lighter shafts at my desired 44.75" length the balance goes off. I have to find other ways to make it feel right. The problem with that it usually involves adding headweight, which will screw with flex, launch, etc.

So far the PXv that is stock in the Optiforce seems to keep the balance right, the lightweight Miyazakis were also well balanced. Just hard to sort through the code flex sometimes.

[supo]

ive tred the lightest and softet theory and i get it so wrong far too much i cant swing within myself and control them

with heaavier one i can go ver y slow and methodically and the ball seems to keep much truer and no loss of distance what so ever. i m choking down on my drives alot now with so much better results both in distacne and accuracy if i do this with a light driver is snap hooked. a heavier one and its all control and low flight.

its working so well, i cant take the long handle any more or ill slice it

for some reason the top of the butt stikcing out my left palm now give me draw.

if i hold the top like i used to ill cut it all day.

so heavier for me NOW is the key

actually takign the ryoma maxima in tomororw to swap out the diamanX and put the diananaB 80 in her

Edited September 3, 2013 by supo67

[IshikawaFAN]

ive tred the lightest and softet theory and i get it so wrong far too much i cant swing within myself and control them

with heaavier one i can go ver y slow and methodically and the ball seems to keep much truer and no loss of distance what so ever. i m choking down on my drives alot now with so much better results both in distacne and accuracy if i do this with a light driver is snap hooked. a heavier one and its all control and low flight.

its working so well, i cant take the long handle any more or ill slice it

for some reason the top of the butt stikcing out my left palm now give me draw.

if i hold the top like i used to ill cut it all day.

so heavier for me NOW is the key

actually takign the ryoma maxima in tomororw to swap out the diamanX and put the diananaB 80 in her

Well, when I say the lightest, I don't mean low 60g or high 50g for everyone... for someone able to use 80g or high 70g on some days, they should have the skill to tone it down to a high 60g/ low 70g, etc. People forget golf is like lifting weights. Your body needs to recover, that is why "OFF" days exist. For example, that one night you were crushing it, swing felt effortless, 70g extra stiff shaft felt like a 60g, just one solid drive after another and then you wake up the next morning and you hit that same driver and you can barely get the ball to roll and hit the fence. If you want to hit long on a consistent basis, you have to EAT A LOT and rest before any shaft really comes into play. Some days you just have to accept you are sore and too weak to swing a heavier extra stiff shaft.

Edited September 3, 2013 by IshikawaFAN

[RLL33]

I'd be curious to know if you guys who like heavier shaft weight are "heavier" guys (body wise). I'm not a big guy, but I'm strong for my size -- used to be a gymnast in my youth. And in both golf and tennis, I've always considered myself a touch or feel player. Placement, spin, location, good short game, that kind of thing... And I prefer light in shaft weight as long as I can keep control of dispersion. Not all light works for me. For instance, Aerotech SteelFibre shafts in my irons felt like air, could hardly feel contact with the ball. But recently the Fuji MCI's in 60 have been fantastic for me. Great control, great distance, can work shots both ways. In my driver, still using the stock Tour AD in the t388, which I believe is 65, and I love it even though it feels about as heavy as I'd want to go in a driver shaft. 3wd, I'm back to light in the XV with a 52g shaft. Hybrids, also use light 52g shafts. I've noticed that among pros, the guys who appear to be heavier bone types physically seem to match up with heavier shafts, which makes sense since body weight has a lot to do with flex on a shaft, I think. Thanks for this discussion though -- it's something I think about a lot.

[JayDM]

I'm not really a heavier guy at all, but I am considerably muscular, and tall(6'1) so I guess in some ways I could qualify as a "bigger" guy. Generally I only really find consistently better results with heavier shafts in FW's and drivers, I've set up utilities with shafts anywhere from 70-100 gram shafts and don't see consistently better results with any weight range, just different ball flights that work better for different courses and conditions, I have an older EGG 4 iron shafted with 120+ gram steel and that works really well for certain conditions as well. Irons vary as well, anywhere from 100 to 130+ gram shafts in all sorts of different sets, I can enjoy the NS 2f14 protos which are the heaviest, stiffest things ANYWHERE and then play other sets with something lighter and enjoy them just the same, there's really no way to generalize, flex wise I probably prefer something a bit softer in long irons and a bit stiffer in short irons, weights still vary though, I find heavy DG's to play excellently in long irons, but I also just shafted up my only 2 iron with an MCI 100 and have been getting excellent results with that as well, I VERY rarely bag that 2 iron, but the MCI has made it more of a versatile club than it has been previously, easier to launch and easier to be confident with.

Edited September 3, 2013 by JayDM

[RLL33]

Put 52g hybrid shafts in both my Cally Proto's and Yonex Zero, and man, those things fly. Longer and straighter than any hybrid I've ever hit.