Mizuno Yoro or Miura Giken Crafting ?

[chiromikey]

This opinion come from Brad Hughes who teaches an old school swing and I believe my coach Martin Ayers also thinks in similar vein. By the way his wife is Japanese and he teaches in japan too. Modern etching totally sucks and I rediscovered my ball striking after decades of struggling with cockamamie positions you are meant to be in or look like. Go for blades and as little offset as you can possibly play. Simple tools!! That's what beautiful about Jdm blades..whether miura , mizuno, fourteen etc..This is a reply Brad had for the question of offset ....

Bradley,

Isnt offset supposed to be a forgiving feature? I think it adds confusion when lining up.

Very surprised that most irons, even forged blades have offset. I used my bending bar to take out offset and used Dremel tool to correct bounce after bending to zero offset. Use lead tape to get weight right.

Yeh look like hell but thats advantage of having 12 year old irons.

Offset brings the shaft in ahead of the face (face will be open) and visually to me it feels like I have to flick my hands or roll them over to square the face up....or it feels like I have to come over the top to get the face on the ball......again...I think that is a designed feature by manufacturers (Karsten prob started this??)...to help fix a slice but again doing this deteriorates the action long term...... if people would get their clubs set up properly and avoid the use of band aids and crutches to try help them through they will be all the better in the long haul....and not be making these compensations that end up hurting them even more as time goes by.

Upright clubs and offset.- two wrongs that don't make a right

Upright clubs by their very disposition discourage the pivot from getting fully engaged. By using upright clubs the shaft will no longer be at right angles to the torso on the downswing, and any OTT move starts the ball much more left, quicker... than from a flatter lie angle.

The arms then don't have room to work correctly on the downswing, and we keep hearing the "stuck" term which is exactly what happens.

The offset is just that... an attempt to delay the shutting of the clubface so that OTT has a better chance of starting the ball online.. with more of a glancing blow. Two negatives rarely make things right.

A correct golf swing is going to be based upon forearm rotation in sync with a proper pivot rotation. This upright/offset kind of equipment set up will inhibit that, and leave golfers scratching their heads wondering why they don't get better.

The companies sure do sell us though on these concepts of their clubmaking....but when you are armed with true knowledge and aren't just patching your swing up with ill designed tools the yellow brick road becomes a heck of a lot clearer through the maze.

I have seen plenty of the latest and greatest stuff head straight to e-bay after a few rounds when improvement wasn't imminent.

It's not the club that will save you ...it's the correct setup of a club that can and will enhance our games over time....if you give yourself a chance and start thinking outside the box of what we have been told and follow and watch what the great players actually did with the club in their hands when they swung it efficiently you can then start to reap some rewards.

This falls so much into line with what I've discovered over the years with my own swing. My equipment is so unconventional by today's standards (no offset and very flat) but by trial and error and building equipment that fits what my body wants to do naturally (and not giving in to what others say my swing should be) I've watched my game come together quite nicely.

With that said, I know I'm lucky to have an amount of ability and/or coordination that many golfers may not possess...and for those golfers offset and other bandaids (as Mr. Hughes put it) most likely do help. Nothing wrong with that at all, except that manufacturing trends have forgotten about a few of us.

Edited September 12, 2014 by chiromikey

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Bradley Hughes knows the swing no doubt but he doesn't appear to understand what players want, need or what designers think.

Of course a perfect swing can hit a butter knife but how many of us have that, I deal with a lot of designers/grinders these are the guys actually making the clubs and when people say Zero Offset, it's a really? Who is this? After years of dealing with TSG they know not to ask that anymore but even Tiger dosen't have Zero offset, nor does Rory.

I don't want the new members to come here and read zero offset is cool or better because it really isn't, it looks cool but it changes the performance of the golf club and for most players for the worse. I hate telling the 20+ handicapper than miura blades with every custom grind and no offset may not be the best choice.

So I suggest we need to create different terms for this before TSG see's an increase in the requests for Zero offset coming from people who it wouldn't help.

Zero Offset should be known as Zero Offset

Clubs like the SB-01 or Baby Blade etc.. maybe we can call Extreme Minimal Offset

What say you guys?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Another thing on the Miura vs Mizuno:

Being totally real Mizuno imo has better designs, materials, finish, better grinders, but is considered more mainstream/generic

Miura imo is more botique and that's it.

That said I would still lean to a set of 5005 totally decked out because I feel Mizuno lacks a neo blade that that has a smaller head.

[shoutout33]

Here's my take on the swing/less offset issue. I have currently had my golf set built. (Will post pics soon...) I KNOW I can hit blades, but the other day at the range, it was like I had never hit a golf ball before. Needless to say I got seriously frustrated. I've been able to prove damn near every club fitter that I've went to a fitting for that I can do so with any issues. Yes, I know hitting on the grass is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, but even if your hitting in an indoor range, folks will know.

My co-worker, doesn't think, that after a 10+ year haitus from playing a round of golf, that blades are too difficult for me to hit. I keep telling him, and anybody for that matter, THE HEAD OF THE CLUB DOESN'T DICTATE YOUR CONTACT WITH THE BALL...YOUR SWING DOES!!!! For example, he has some nice Titlest AP's. If my swing isn't correct, I won't be able to hit those or any other game improvement club for that matter correctly. When pro's and low handicap golfer's say that something like the AP2's are more forgiving, to me, that means that they want the benefit of a blade, without working so hard. Their swing is more than consistent enough to hit blades "consistently".

Edited September 12, 2014 by shoutout33

[Danj]

I had a set of zero offset clubs built once. Thought it would be the answer. It wasn't. While I liked the short irons I'm not sur I ever made solid contact past the 8 iron. A tiny smidge of offset and I'm talking minimal really helps the hands stay ahead and helps you compress the ball better. I'm really enjoying the mp15's I've just put in my bag for this very reason.

[needmoregolf]

I think another aspect which makes this topic even cloudier is most have not commented on how they expect their ball flight to be with the addition or lack of offset in combination of their natural swing. I think this plays into the discussion as well, because some offset certainly helps someone wanting more consistent right to left ball flight. Those that like to hit fades might opt for zero offset because it naturally promotes that ball flight with it being flatter across the face. Perhaps those that are looking to this thread for information could also post their desired ball flight and what offset is like on their current sticks.

For myself, I prefer right to left and my natural swing already promotes this direction, so when I play clubs w/ heavy offset, I have a propensity to hook or pull if my swing isn't good. I tend to fan the face open more with clubs having more offset to minimize this miss, but it looks a little awkward at address and I'm not starting the swing w/ a nice warm and fuzzy feeling. That being said, if there is almost zero offset, I automatically think the shot will be a little underpowered w/ a resulting fade (or worse - a block/slice), and I overcompensate for it in my downswing, which isn't good either. So, it goes back to what some have said, a little offset goes a long way to add confidence every time I stand over the ball that the ball flight will be either pretty straight or my ideal baby draw ball flight. Currently gaming Epon SUS316 that have some offset and I welcome it so I confidently put on a nice easy swing.

*disclaimer - this all assumes those days I have a tuned swing that is working well, as I definitely have those days where my swing is complete sh*t and offset isn't even part of the discussion*

Edited September 12, 2014 by needmoregolf

[bjorndal57]

Mizuno Yoro MB specials. B3 with the copper underlay. Possible? or pipe dream

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Mizuno Yoro MB specials. B3 with the copper underlay. Possible? or pipe dream

Yes except for the copper under layer, Mizuno won't do that.

Finishes sometimes have issues with a copper under layer and it's harder to control head weight.

[604_skyline]

what options are the same or similar in the custom options, and then what is totally different between the mizuno yoro and the miura crafting options?

those miura 5005's do look pretty damn cool!

Edited September 15, 2014 by 604_skyline

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Imagine the MB-5005 with a W-Grind, in a different finish with less offset and a more boxy toe? That's pretty much as good as it get's for the MG custom gear imo.

They pretty much have all the same options but Miura Giken offers copper under layer while Mizuno does not.

Ah yes one big one is that Miura will not remove stamping! If they did omg!

[dcdc]

What does the copper under layer do?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

What does the copper under layer do?

Gives it a little softer feel at impact which is a good option for the 5005 due to the cavity it feels more firm than say the 5003. I suggest it on all Miura irons.

[Kirk Dunn]

I would prolly pick Mizuno....I hit new miura cb57 today and they were nice...Also hit cb5 and an older blade....miura is more "special" in a way cuz you don't see em around very much and they cost more... but from a pure standpoint of just hitting irons side by side I think Mizunos feel better....for sure they feel softer, but since mizzy is more mainstream people will pick miura I am sure....

For a club you cam walk into any store and buy Mizuno is hard to beat and don't forget Mizuno is a Japanese forged club!....so it is in JDM category...and they feel awesome.....my buddy has new MP4 irons and what a great feeling stick....I was hitting his side by side against miura cb57 and mp4 felt better....The miura is a beautiful head though....lil firmer more powerful feeling, I actually liked it alot and look at address was stunning....fairly easy to hit as well.....

But I think if I was spending $1500 plus on a ser I would buy yoro craft set!

[Raffyp]

I'd go for the miura due to the copper plate and its sort of exclusive,but will keep it very much on a standard configuration. But honestly if I can spend 1500 on a set I should be able to afford both maybe a year a part. The question is which one will i keep.

[Icestorm959]

Miura Giken all the way, aesthetically much more pleasing.

[Mjr. D]

Is this the successor to the MB5003 blade? How does this compare to the Miuraisms?

[604_skyline]

TSG,

this maybe old news, but there are two more finishes on the yoro page, bringing the total to eleven. these last two are basically double the price of the other nine.

now the translation is poor, but do you have any info on these?

they are "Jill" nickel and "Jill" twilight and as I say, they are double the price of the regular nine finish options.

do you have any accurate info on them?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Yes I don't like Jill, it's like a flat rough texture finish. A couple people have ordered it in the past, not the best looking imo.