Swing Weight Change in RM - Help Me Understand

[Elegantly_Wasted]

I want to reshaft my 14* RM TP to play at 42" with a graphite shaft. However several people have expressed concerns over the drastic change in swing weight I'll get.

The steel model I have is D2 at 40.2" with a TT S400 shaft weighing 132g according to TM.

So let me see if I understand this whole swing weight change. . .

If I swapped the TT shaft to a UST IROD Fairway which weighs 73g at an uncut 44" I'd be looking at the following changes:

Using shaft that's 1.8" longer --> +10.8SW

Difference in uncut shaft weights (132g - 73g = 59g) --> -6.5SW

Flatten Lie ~ 3* to account for lengthened shaft --> +1SW

Total SW change --> 10.8 + 1 - 6.5 = +5.3SW so club will play at D7.3 (~D7)

(I'd also have to shim the shaft so I suppose that will increase the SW a bit as well)

So here's what I don't get - If I want this club to "feel" the same (D2) but play flatter and longer I need to go with an even lighter shaft right (less than 73g)? But the actual gram weight of this club will have to drastically decrease in order to maintain the same swing weight. So which is the more important weight to chase - swing weight or avoiding a huge change in gram weight?

[tourtunedgolf]

Pshew, that's a lot of info. Before I post anything, I just wanted to ask how flattening your lie angle would effect your swingweight. You're not changing the weight of the head by doing that, just bending it.

Regardless, and easy way to lighten your swingweight, would be to add some weight in the butt. You can do this with lead tape (which i don't particularly recommend, b/c it's not much on asthetics), or with a Balance Golf insert, which I do HIGHLY recommend. A Balance Golf insert will add a specific amount of weight into the butt of your club, lowering your swingweight and counterbalancing the shaft basically. It feels pretty awesome, especially in a putter, but it works really really well in a driver or fairway wood as well.

Robbie

TTG

[Elegantly_Wasted]

Jeff Jackson of Mitchell Golf in this article: (http://www.equip2golf.com/clubmaking/clubmaking_frameset.html?jackson_articles/swingweight.html~clubmaking) said that flattening the lie 3* increased SW 1 point (it makes sense intuitively to me because flattening the lie would move the center of mass further away from 14" pivot point thereby increasing the torque - which is essentially what SW is a measure of).

I had also thought of back weighting to offset any increase in SW but was told that all it would do is fool the scale and not have a noticeable impact on actual play. I don't have any experience with clubmaking so I couldn't disagree. I've seen the inserts you've mentioned, but don't know much about them. Would they work with my Golf Pride Tour Velvet grips or do they also require a particular grip?

[tourtunedgolf]

Jeff Jackson of Mitchell Golf in this article: (http://www.equip2golf.com/clubmaking/clubmaking_frameset.html?jackson_articles/swingweight.html~clubmaking) said that flattening the lie 3* increased SW 1 point (it makes sense intuitively to me because flattening the lie would move the center of mass further away from 14" pivot point thereby increasing the torque - which is essentially what SW is a measure of).

I had also thought of back weighting to offset any increase in SW but was told that all it would do is fool the scale and not have a noticeable impact on actual play. I don't have any experience with clubmaking so I couldn't disagree. I've seen the inserts you've mentioned, but don't know much about them. Would they work with my Golf Pride Tour Velvet grips or do they also require a particular grip?

That's interesting info from Jeff. As usual. :D

Fooling the scale isn't really important. Its what you feel in your hands that truly matters, and you would be able to feel the difference. Balance Golf inserts will work with any grip.

[tsg4tch]

It all varies a little, but by my calculations you're -7.4SW + 10.8 SW= net +3.4 SW which gives you a D5.4@ 42" assuming the club measures D2. I'm not in the lie angle/SW change camp. You can add a heavier grip(+1SW for every +4grams grip weight) or shorten the shaft a little.

Backweighting does affect performance of the club: http://www.balance-certified.com/

The club will feel different because of the lighter weight and the difference in the nature of graphite versus steel shafts. The "head feel" should be similar with the same swingweight.

[Elegantly_Wasted]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm still at odds with this decision because a lot of the information I'm getting is diametrically different. On BSG it was suggested that I just go ahead and reshaft at 42" and worry about matching up the swing weight and lie after I've found a good fit in static shaft weight. However, another member told me not to reshaft longer than 41" or bend the hosel more than 1.5* or else I'll crack the hosel (based on his experience with a cracked RM hosel).

So I'm still in limbo.

[tsg4tch]

Consult with Joe Kwok. He is the keeper of all golf club secrets. :wink:

[boyce89976]

Elegant - your calculations are correct. But one thing you can't really estimate is the effect of the balance point of the shaft. A point closer to the grip and your SW would be lighter, balance point closer to the tip and your SW goes up.

I'll give you an example. I just reshafted an MP001 3 wood that had the stock steel TT DG shaft (~125g). It was D4 in stock form at 42.25". I put in an NV 85s (88g uncut) at 43". So, it should have been -4 (for shaft weight) + 4.5 (for the extra .75") or D4.5. But it came out at our target SW of D3 b/c the balance point on the NV is more butt biased than the TT DG.

If you are trying to achieve a length of 42" first, and SW is secondary, find a shaft you like and install it to that length and let the SW be what it is.

[Elegantly_Wasted]

Thanks boyce,

The major problem I'm running into is that there's only one clubmaker in this city (if you can call him that). He doesn't want to shim a 0.335 shaft because it's "sketchy." I went in and spoke with him today - he'll only install a 0.355 tapered shaft in the head and won't bend the lie. So I now have next to zero options for shafts. It's really frustrating.

[turbodog]

Thanks boyce,

The major problem I'm running into is that there's only one clubmaker in this city (if you can call him that).  He doesn't want to shim a 0.335 shaft because it's "sketchy."  I went in and spoke with him today - he'll only install a 0.355 tapered shaft in the head and won't bend the lie.  So I now have next to zero options for shafts.  It's really frustrating.

http://www.ustgolfshaft.com/USTWeb/Product...mily.aspx?id=32

there's a .350 version of the irod - that's close enough if you have a competent guy doing the work.

the other problem is that until you pull the head and dry fit the pieces, you don't really know how heavy the head actually is. it could be a little lighter than you guess if they used tip weighting...

[boyce89976]

Thanks boyce,

The major problem I'm running into is that there's only one clubmaker in this city (if you can call him that).  He doesn't want to shim a 0.335 shaft because it's "sketchy."  I went in and spoke with him today - he'll only install a 0.355 tapered shaft in the head and won't bend the lie.  So I now have next to zero options for shafts.  It's really frustrating.

Hmmm... where are you? I don't like to use shims either. They usually don't fit right and require a lot of extra work (like handsanding to fit). Turbodog is right... if the ID of the hosel is .355" then a .350" tip shaft would work (5 thousandths of an inch ain't gonna matter). Have him use epoxy with shafting beads to make sure the shaft is centered (the beads will also take up the extra slack in the hosel.

[Elegantly_Wasted]

The 0.350 IROD is a special order from Golfsmith - 4-6 WEEKS turn around time.

I even asked this guy if he'd put a 0.355/0.350 parallel tip shaft in the head and he said he wouldn't. So apparently I'm SOL unless I ship the club off to a clubmaker to reshaft.

Boyce,

I'm in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. It's really odd that there's such a shortage of clubmakers considering we have the most moderate climate in Canada and have over 20 courses in this city.

[tsg4tch]

These guys can do the work or recommend someone closer to you who can. You can also call one of the local private country clubs/golf clubs as they will usually do work for a fee:

Angel, Stephen

Heavenly Golf

2985 Langley Crescent

Prince George, BC V2K 3J7

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (250) 612-2565

Email: [email protected]

Beebe, Ross

Chimo Golf

5929 Glendale Dr

Sardis, BC V2R 3A5

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (604) 858-4747

Email: [email protected]

Chambers, Bruce

Kwozzi Golfworks, Inc.

4288 Dunbar St

Vancouver, BC V6S 2E9

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (604) 737-3697

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.kwozzigolf.com

Haines, Rick

Swing-Fitted Custom Golf Clubs,Inc.

#99 - 3555 Westminster Hwy

Richmond, BC V7C-5P6

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (604) 273-0402

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.swingfitted.com

Klein, Herb

Gemini Golf Services

1504 21st Ave

Vernon, BC V1T 1G9

Professional "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (250) 542-8419

Email: [email protected]

Munro, Robert

RM Golf

3184 Cardinal Drive

Burnaby, BC V5A 2T6

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (604) 420-5859

Email: [email protected]

Pascuzzo, Greg

Archon Custom Golf Clubs

1504 7th Ave S

Cranbrook, BC V1C 5V4

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (250) 426-1662

Pattison, Ken

233 Butt Rd., #326

West Bank, BC V4T 2L3

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (250) 707-0647

Email: [email protected]

Simpson, John

Golf Innovation

Unit 47 8844 208th Street

Langley, BC V1M 3X7

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (604) 539-9320 x 224

Email: [email protected]

Stav, Terry

Golf West

4059 Norwell Dr

Nanaimo, BC V9T 1Y8

Professional "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (250) 758-1919

Email: [email protected]

Williams, Tim

Golfcraft Custom Clubs & Repairs

2817 Dysart Rd

Victoria, BC V9A 2J7

Professional "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (250) 381-4904

Email: [email protected]

Zipser, Henry

Henry's Golfshop

47 Station St

Duncan, BC V9L 1M2

Certified "Class A" Clubmaker

Phone: (250) 748-3522

Email: [email protected]

[boyce89976]

EW - Jeez, I'd tell you to ship it to me and I'd do it for you, but you'd pay close to $50 just in shipping.

Surely, one of the clubbuilders in the post above can help you out. Good luck!

[joey3108]

THere was one of my post on the other forums regarding taking the rat glue out from inside the head to bring the total weight down so you'll be able to reshaft it w/ a longer shaft to get the right swing weight. However, you must understand that we don't know how much rat glue inside. If you are lucky, then you should have no problem. Do some search on this post or call me.

My take on the shim:

IMO, the best is a aluminium shim that i get from hardware store, which is exacly the thickness of the different (335" to 350"). From my experiences IMO, The least/thinner epoxy between the shaft and hosel wall, the better and stronger and truer spec too.

If any body need more info to discuss your problem on your club, You can email me and i'll give you my # to call and discuss it on the phone effectively. Please understand that if I'm busy at that moment, i'll have to make you call me back or i'll call you back.

Regards,

Joe Kwok

[Elegantly_Wasted]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I searched online for several hours yesterday (literally) and finally found the only viable option based on my crappy clubmaker's abilities - a True Temper X-90 at 41" will fit the shaft head perfectly and is light weight (compared to the 135g DG S400 in the head now). The higher ball flight should be ok, and I can always control it by either playing it back in my stance or teed lower if hitting off the tee. I just didn't want to go with a TX-Tour and find that the ball flight was too low.

The upside is that they're super cheap shafts so the experiment with ordering one from Golf Supply of America isn't going hurt if it turns out to be a lemon.