18th Legion

Curious if Tario, Chris, or anyone has any information or rumors on Taylormade mid-year iron releases, similar to past years, such as; Burner 2.0 TP or Burner Forged, or even a replacment for the Burner Super Launch irons. Thanks

If they are Endo Forged, it is Endo Thailand, not Endo Japan. Please just check their site, it states head made in Thailand. The girl is Blair O'neal, IMO the hottest girl in golf.

Fourteen TC910: Head forged in Thailand, foundry not specified. Per Fourteen website.

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I would add . . . I don't think you can compare the Golf industry to the auto industry. As an example, none of the U.S. OEM brands manufacture their own clubs. They all contract different foundries in mostly Japan, China, Thailand, and Taiwan, to manufacture their clubs. Only a handful of foundries such as Endo and Kyoei release their own lines of clubs. The OEMs design their own clubs (mostly) and have them manufactured to their specifications. It is their design, material, and quality control tha tyou are buying.

I must say that the offset is so minimal when compared to my TM TP Forged, that I agree the Reverse Offset would have little effect. A Ball Striker I am not.

Tario gave me the o.k. to sell. The good thing should I go that route is that I will turn around and get my wishlist irons, TaylorMade Burner Forged, although it looks like the Nippon 950 Reg shafts are no longer available. It certainly is a good decision to have. I feel very fortunate.

Thanks once again, to Tario, Chris, TourspecGolf, and Saqra! The irons are stunning. The highest of quality and forged brilliance is evident. I have not had the opportunity to hit these, as it has been cold and rainy here in the Northwest. (I can do one or the other, but not both). The irons are very compact and I must admit that I am not certain they will fit this Game Improvers ability or lack thereof. I currently game a set of TaylorMade 2008 TP Forged Irons for which I probably need a little more forgiveness. The 2008 TPs had a little more offset than the 2009s or the R9 TPs. When compared to the TMs the Saqra's do look a bit intimidating to me. For that reason, I am not sure what I will do. I don't want to do anything in bad taste or to be disrespectful. I contacted Tario to explain my dilemma and received nothing but assurance. Just goes to show you what a class act Tourspec is. In any case, I am posting some pics of the Saqra Irons as well as some comparison pics with the TMs. Enjoy.

Only the TC 1000 and TC 910 are made by Endo Japan. All other Fourteen products are made in China and are non-Endo.

Agreed. It is my understanding that because the Counterfeit/Copy market has grown so much that the Clone/Knock-Off market has shrunk a little. Either way they are fakes. I thought I would share this article I wrote a while back on another blog when challanged that Clones/Knock-Offs were o.k. and a good way for people to get started in golf: Lynn Mayhew Hey Gang, I hate the Clone business and any operator who promotes and sells them. I have reprinted some thoughts. Before the bombardment comes just to clarify: Clone/Knock-Off Golf Clubs: Have cosmetic resemblance to true Manufacturer Clubs, but internally they are not the same. Construction, Material, or Quality. They may have similar names Turner T7, Gallery, and so on. A Clone or Knock off is not hard to see. Go to eBay, or Diamond Tour. Turner T7 that resembles a TaylorMade r7. Counterfeit/Copy Golf Clubs: Are direct copies of OEM equipment. Lasers are used to copy the exterior of high selling clubs; again, there is no internal accuracy, nor the same construction, material or quality. Counterfeits or a Copy, are much harder to tell and that is why the Golf manufacturers are in fact going after these factories. Component Golf Clubs: Such as, Infiniti, SMT, Nakashima, and KZG, are original designs and are legitimate and ARE NOT part of any reference. Knock-Offs/Clone Golf clubs operate in a gray area. Determination of trademark infringement is tough to prove and costly. Although new legislation is going to clarify this further. Major Brands, members of the U.S. Golf Manufacturers Anti-Counterfeiting Working Group, have their hands and funds fully committed at the moment going after Counterfeit Clubs. What's the harm in buying a Knock-Off/Clone? Counterfeit Clubs and Knock-Offs are manufactured in the same factories in China. So while, technically you may not be buying and thereby promoting counterfeit clubs, you are in fact enabling those same facilities to continue by buying Clones/Knock-Offs. Let's connect the dots. Nearly all Clubheads come from China and Thailand. The rest (save for some Ping), come from Japan. The factories that produce for legitimate OEMs are not permitted to make clones. Those factories are inspected regularly by the OEMs. They are legitimate. (That’s not to say that the occasional employee sneaks off with a proto clubhead). Clones come from the same Chinese factories that produce Counterfeit clubs. Thereby, purchasing Clones ultimately supports those factories who build Counterfeit clubs. Quality wise, any golfer regardless of handicap is better served buying quality used equipment or buying a new but discontinued model. If a component seller such as Diamond Tour wants to be fully legitimate, they need to invest fully in true component companies such as SMT, and abandon the practice of selling Clone clubs. Counterfeit Clubs and Clone Clubs, the operators who sell and produce, contribute to higher prices of the legitimate brands. There are just too many cases backing up the problems. It has become rampant and that is why Acushnet (Titleist/Cobras), Adams, Callaway, Cleveland, Ping, and TaylorMade are part of and formed the U.S. Golf Manufacturers Anti-Counterfeiting Working Group. However, China cannot enforce without participation of the Patented/trademark holder. Which they are doing, but it is costly. There have been recent factories busted in China. They are concentrating on Counterfeits and Copys, but again, Clones and Knock Offs are part of the same problem. There just simply is not the time or money right now to go after them. One doesn't have to be an Attorney to read or be educated on the law. To say that a consumer has no responsibility is, well sad. It is the consumers who have the most power to affect change. Consumers changed the cars that Detroit made by speaking out and buying economical foreign autos. One more time; Clones are referred to as Knock-Offs. Counterfeit Clubs are also referred to as Copies. Two different items under the law, but part and parcel of the same problem. Neither are quality because while laser technology can scan the outside, it cannot scan the inside. There are many reasons besides marketing costs why they are cheaper. Material used is cheaper. No Research and Design Costs. No Reps. No Service. No U.S. or Japan assembly. It doesn't cost that much more to purchase legitimate past year models. It does however cost money to get started in golf. Starting should also include lessons. A PGA Professional will give a lesson to anyone, but ask them if a Clone/Knock-Off club is a good choice and see what type of answer you will get. For those who feel Clones perform just as well as OEM - I won't argue that point, you have convinced yourself. This site is full of PGA Professionals, Company Reps, and the suggestion to use Clone/Knock Off clubs is disrespectful. Golf is a game of honor. You invest your time and should invest equally in your equipment. Clones are a short cut. Make yourself aware. Goggle "Counterfeit Golf Clubs" and take a look at how rampant it is. Read further and you will find that the same factories involved are also producing Clone Clubs. It may be understandable that we as consumers can be fooled by Counterfeits/Copys (Illegal), but there is no way anyone of us could not identify a Clone/Knock-Off (Legal). It is your decision and right (for the time being) to buy a Clone/Knock-Off. It just isn't admirable. For those who want to play Knock-Offs, yes it is your "right". Just ask yourself, have you ever had someone take credit for your hard work? Has anyone ever stolen an idea or proposal you have written? Has anyone ever stolen a customer of yours? Do you not find all of those cases wrong, frustrating, and near impossible to prove? Knock-Offs operate under the same principle. Someone else designed it, so they're going to laser copy it, skip the R&D, use cheaper material, spend nothing on advertising the new design, and take money from a certain consumer segment. The uninformed, the newbie, the consumer who is jealous of the success of OEMs and their need to earn profits. There is a difference in this world with having "the right" to do something, and doing something with honor. It would be more honorable for a person to show up with RAMs purchased at Target than to use Knock-Offs/Clones. The later hurts the Golf Manufacturers and the integrity of their designs, thereby hurts all involved, Reps, Retailers, and yes ultimately the game of golf. Ultimately my point in all of this is that of all Sports activities, Golf is a gentleman’s game, it is honor, and it is self-policing. Those involved in this great game should have a certain level of ethics. Not driven only by what is legal, but what is righteous.

What are the FP numbers, I don't see listed on the specs. Is the Reverse Offset severe?

Saw a claim on another blog that Fourteen Golf was purchased by Daiwa (ONOFF fame) over a year ago. Is this true? It would explain the exceleration of new designs and marketing. Thought it would be best to ask the experts at Tourspec Golf.

Can anyone confirm that these are made by the Epon facility in Thailand? (Fourteen states that their 1000 and 910s are made in Thailand, all other heads made in China, not Endo made of course).

More knowledge on this site about forging houses than anywhere else. Over on Golfwrx these two irons have appeared. I find it hard to believe that either is manufactured in their respective countries. Scratch Protos. They claim the blanks come to them and they grind them completely, muscle and all. These are sold by Komperdell in Austria. They claim to manufacture equipment, but nothing on their site states that they actually forge or even grind these irons. Both are similar, but the grinds on the lowest of the tri muscles are a bit different. Okay experts, is the origin from the far east?

When will Part Two be posted? Would it be possible to include the TaylorMade R9 Forged and Burner Forged in the Part 2 report. It would seem that plenty of time has passed and both irons have been in possesion long enough. Thanks.