18th Legion

To clarify, the Epon AF-502s are longer than the TM Burner Forged when comparing irons of similar lofts? How much longer? Thanks

Can anyone speak to the distance of the Burner TPs compared to the Burner Forged? Interested even if it is only comparing the demo irons that you may have received. Trying my best to formulate a decision between these two and the R9 Burner Forged without being able to hit any of them first. Thanks.

[quote name='gocchin' date='Feb 20 2010, 05:05 AM' post='159298'] I haven't actually seen the specs yet so I mistakenly said they were S25C forged when the are in fact forged from 8620 Carbon Steel (8620 is used in irons like Adams Idea Pro Forged). The long irons are made to be easy to hit and focus on distance which is why they have more offset and the shorter irons less offset to focus on control. Ping touts these as ease of use forged irons with balanced distance, feel and control. gocchin, as these are 8620, are they truly forged? I understand that forging is about a process, not a metal. However, it was also my understanding that the identifiers of the metals are associated with the process. As an example Titleist 8620 Wedges and Scratch 8620 Wedges are cast. Could you clarify? Also, I will be the one to ask, do you know where they are forged/made? Thanks

I would love to try the Burner Forged but the offset scares me a bit. I have the 2008 TP Forged which has nearly the same Face Progression Numbers and Hosel Dia as the Burner Forged. Therefore the Offset is a little less, but seems a little much for me in the short irons. Certianly Game Improvement for both. The numbers below show that the R9 Forged will have a touch less offset than the Burner Forged. The R9 Forged has less offset in the long irons and more offset in the short irons, than the R9 which seems odd. TM_Irons.pdf

Thanks gocchin. Could you re-post the chart, the R9 TP info somehow is split? Would much appreciate any comparisons that you guys can do between; R9 TP -v- Burner TP R9 Forged -v- Burner Forged Of course side by side photos, and impressions of control, feel, and distance. The R9 TP looks like a cross between the 2009 TP Forged and the current R9 TP B. It appears to have the new material in the head. I had nearly decided on the Burner Forged for this coming year, now this!!!

I think you missed the point of the thread. One brand for your entire bag.

Fun topic. Tough to answer. I would assume as this is a JDM forum, you are limiting it to JDM clubs. I lean to Game Improvment type clubs. I have to admit, in some cases I looked over what each may or may not offer in the way of Putters. My Top Ten: 1. TaylorMade - Only weakness are the wedges. 2. Mizuno - Upcoming offerings could push this past TM. 3. MacGregor - Very underated brand. With the inclusion of the DW Wedges, they have solid offerings. 4. OnOff - Clear distinction in lines and levels. 5. Epon - Would rank higher if there was a better offering of fairway woods and hybrids. If it were Irons alone they would be #1 or #2. 6. Srixon - Strong GI Line Up. 7. PRGR - Some great pieces I would like to own, but line up not as thorough as OnOff. 8. Fourteen - Weak woods offering. Some very nice designs but not crazy about Chinese forgings versus Japanese forgings. 9. Tourstage - Just don't get on with the look 10. Royal Collection - Class line up, just not alot for the GI golfer. 10. XXIO - A little redundant with Srixon's GI stuff At first thought, I would have ranked much different. But I looked through each brand to see what I would put in a bag and it changed a few things. MacGregor went up and PRGR went down. Again, I go more GI, but not max GI. As an example I currently use TM TP Forged 2008s and am looking to go for the Burner Forged or Epon 502s.

I think you are misunderstanding - I only used Ping and Titileist as an example, as I know their hosel diameters are different. It had nothing to do with where their offset numbers came from. I fully understand how offset is calculated and that you don't need to know the hosel dia to know offset UNLESS you are converting FP to Offset. Which you describe for Tourstage, Srixon, and Epon. Point being - if Tourstage and Srixon Hosel dia is different than Epon, then the conversion and the numbers are incorrect. Charts like this are much appreciated and very useful - but only if they are accurate. If possible, could Gocchin or TourSpec Golfer verify the hsel dia for some of the Tourstage and Srixon Irons? And - it would be great to get the hosle dia for Burner TP and Burner Forged. I know that the TP Forged and Burner Forged are .370 Parallel tip so the dia looks larger. Thanks

I'm sure you're wondering why you attempted to do everyone a favor. It is much appreciated . . . but, In order to do a correct conversion, you have to start with the actual hosel diamater. Tourspec demonstrates this in a Forum Topic addressing the subject.

Bat, On this chart, are the measurements calculated from each irons actual hosel measurement? As an example, Ping's hosel is a different size than Titileist and so on. In regards to TaylorMade, maybe start with the models that Tourspec carry: Burner TP Burner Forged TP Forged 2009 TP Forged 2008

Great info - thanks for sharing. Any chance you would have numbers on the TaylorMade Irons? If Gocchin or TourSpecGolfer could share the hosel diamter of the following, I could use their formula to figure it out as well. Interested in: Burner Forged TP Forged 2009 TP Forged 2008 Burner TP R9 I would suggest that adding the Hosel Diameter or even going through the trouble to do the conversion from FP to Offset would be great information to have on each Iron Set listing at Tour Spec. I have to think that this would only help customers in making a buying decision. Anything to educate the American golfer.

Looking for any reports on the R9 TI Max fairways. A comparison between this and a regular steel R9 would be beneficial. As well, please indicate which shaft you have hit. I would also be interested how this compares to TE Exotics. CB2, CB2, XCG XCG-V, or XCG3. I have heard rumors that TM will release the TI version in the U.S. in March. However, if they don't I will probably be putting one in a shopping cart at Tourspec. It is quite an investment for a fairway wood, but having a slower swing speed, I am often shorter than most and need as much horsepower out of the fairway as I can get. A few years ago, I was gaming a combination of the r7 TI 3 wood and an r7 steel 5 wood. I got about 10 more yards with the TI over the 3 wood steel version. The combination gave me good separation and versatility.

I have never heard of bending cast more than 2 degrees flat or 2 degress upright. Possibly this is what they meant? I would strongly advise against going 4 degrees in one direction.

Well . . . right or wrong, many of those in the States equate products made in Japan or even Taiwan as higher quality as opposed to products made in China or Southeast Asia. Further there is a backlash towards products from China and SE Asia, as many workers in the U.S. feel that the companies have an unfair advantage when it comes to the cost of goods produced and the wage and safety of employees. Japan and Taiwan have safer working conditions, health care, and so on. Therefore their products compete on a more level playing field. Maybe some of these assumptions are true, maybe they are over stated, however that is the perception and therefore why the subject of exactly where product is made is so important to many. As you are in the midst of the market, any light that you could share on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

Well, offset is always subject to each person, but let's compare Face Progression for some of the top TM Irons. Players Cavity Back R9 Japan/R9 TP:................3I=3.2, 6I=4.8, PW=5.5 Tour Preferred:..................3I=3.6, 6I=4.4, PW=5.0 R7TP:....................................3I=2.4, 6I=3.6, PW=5.0 TP Forged TP 2009:..............................3I=3.2, 6I=4.3, PW=5.2 TP 2008:..............................3I=2.4, 6I=3.1, PW=4.1 R7 2007:..............................3I=2.4, 6I=3.1, PW=4.1 Game Improvement Cavity Back R9 Max Japan/R9:............4I=1.8, 6I=2.8, PW=4.8 Burner Forged 08/09:......3I=1.1, 6I=2.3, PW=3.9 R7:........................................3I=0.3, 6I=1.3, PW=2.6 As this illustrates the The TP Forged 2009 is closer to the R9 TP and Tour Preferred, while the TP Forged 2008 and 2007 are on line with the r7 TP in the lower lofts with even a little more offset in the higher lofts. This offset is more generous than you will find in most Players clubs. Clearly the Burner Forged is one of the few Forged Game Improvement irons available. Its offset fits between the old r7 and the new R9 Max. For me, the small additional offset compared to the TP Forged '08 (more so in the lower lofts) may work to my favor. For those used to a Players set up, it is doubtful the Burner Forged will suit your eye. -Now what will the new Burner TP offer?

If you check out the specs, you'll see that the Burner Forged have the nearly the same generous offset as the '08 TPs, opposed to the 2009 TP Forged. The lofts are a degree stronger and two degrees in the PW. It looks like to me by the way the weight is positioned, that these would be more forgiving and longer. I have a set of 2008 TP Forged and may be ordering the Burner Forged after we first see what is coming from the 2010 Tokyo Golf Show. There has been word of a R9 Tp Forged in Japan and the U.S.

Nearly the same FP/Offset numbers as the 2008 TP Forged. Any chance someone has a review of the 2009 Burner Forged Irons? I think I need these.

There is no such thing as Reverse Offset. Common mistake for those not familiar with JDM equipment. Do a Search of this site to find the explaination of Face Progression and Offset. Basically the higher the FP number the less offset.