kr0nik

The TP will be in the $700 range. The tour version that sold for $1350 is well below the much-hyped $3000 price tag. I believe someone said the first Tour R7 will sell for $3G's "just wait and see". ;Eyecrazy So my statement of bargain basement price wasn't all tongue-in-cheeck. I'm sure I'll get a TP version at some point. I still have a few hundred credit at the local Golf Mart. Wouldn't want it to go to waste. I only wish TM released new drivers every 90 days then I can have a new driver every 3 months using their exchange policy! Just kidding.

I grooved a "mat swing" for most of last year especially during the winter. Terrible. I finally found a grass range I like and I'm hitting my irons a whole lot better.

....on BSG I see it's already begun.....hehe....and at bargain basement prices, no less. Thread over there is already locked. Oh well. Post is titled "This will sell in BSG Record time - Tour R7" What do you think, Joe? I want one too!

Per my previous explanation this means the 10.5° loft was measured with the face sitting 2° open and not square. It is 8.5° when squared. The funny thing is if you glued your loft guage to the sole of a club it would give you the same measurement not matter how much you manipulate the face. :twisted: Think about it. The face is the same angle relative to the sole. You can't change that.

Ah the old open-face, static loft, dynamic loft, deloft, yada yada discussion. Who here swings like a machine? Who here returns that club-head to the ball exactly the same time after time? Who here is so precise with their ballstriking that a 1° difference in "static" face agle makes a big difference? How wide are those muni fairways? Why do I spend so much money on golf? Where am I going with this? Now it's my turn to have a crack at this: Let's say I always measure a club on my guage with the face sitting square to the target line. Now let's say I have a driver inserted and in this case the guage reads 9°. That's 9° when clamped in square to the target line. Now when I release the clamp on my guage the face opens up 1°. In other words (this club is right handed) the face now points 1° to the right. Now I reclamp without resquaring the head and take another measurement. Now it will read 10°. Am I correct in my assumptions so far? Okay here's where it gets tricky.... :D Now I remove the club from the guage and address a ball with the club. I sole the driver with loose hands and allow it to face right 1° just like on the guage during the second measurement. It now has a static loft of 10° and the face is said to be open, yes? Okay, now swing the club back and swing it back down to the ball and through. (oooh I piped that one). At impact, because I like to rotate my arms and hands past their position at address, I have rotated the face square to my target line. So at impact the loft was 9°. It was 10° at address because it was open and 9° at impact because I squared it. My point is, if you take your loft measurement with the face square (whether it naturally sits open or closed) and at impact the face is square, the club will play to that loft. But if you meausure your loft with the face in it's natural address position and it is not square and then you square the face at impact then the loft at impact will be different. And in the case of an open-faced driver it will be lower. Again, provided you measured the loft with an open face. So, if I was so consistent that I always rotate my hands and arms at impact the same amount and that amount was say 2° too much, causing my shots to hook left then I would probably benefit from a 2° open faced club whose loft when squared up was my preferred 9°! :P You say "to-may-to" I say "to-mah-to".

I'm guessing it looks cool on the rack and it prevents rust before purchase?

It doesn't. It's made to wear off. And it does. Right off.

Are those the ones Thomas Bjorn uses?

Personally, I play X flex shafts because I am "muy muy macho". Pass the chipotle sauce muchacho!

Check out my signature. I've got Satin MS-11's blueprinted. They are as pure as a blade can get. Felt even more solid when struck than Joe Kwok's TN-87's. Hard to believe but true.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm on an iron Ho'ing roll right now. 704's or RAC CB's............ :roll:

What's up, Mike? Did the R500 lose it's sheen already?

Sorry, for the thread-jack. Did you get any of the PM's I've sent you?

Just wondering if any of the resident TM experts can tell me what the differences are between the US TP Combo's and the Japanese TP Combos. Are the hosel stampings different? Are the US versions forged in China or Mexico? Is the PW in the Japan version different? What are the cosmetic differences?

I think that might be the non-conforming 380cc Japanese release?

Nah, if you go here http://www.sasogrind.com/teamsaso/teamsaso.html you'll see they are a lot like the Mac V foil. The picture on the previous page is the sole.

It's really all about supply and demand. In the case of Tour clubs it is magnified because it is such a small consumer community. Despite what appearances are on this and other boards I don't believe there are that many tour equipment "ho's" (meaning those who buy tour equipment like it's going out of style). So it's tough to make a business successful when you are catering to such a small community. What happens is you pattern your businesss like a high-end boutique that caters to an exclusive clientele. So as a seller you need to manage your buyers' perception. You have to manipulate the percieved value of your goods/services. You need to offer something unique and "rare". You need to make these items "limited" and "hard to get". All in order to justify your prices. I think consumers get a little annoyed when profit margins get rediclulously high. What should the average markup be for a tour club anyway? If I know a guy on tour and he sells me some tour drivers for say $200 a pop, can I then, in good conscience, turn around and charge my clients $1,200 for them? I guess that would depend on the quality of my conscience....as well as the level of the buyers' desire and the depth of their pocketbooks. Then there is the "snake oil" aspect. Such as "this club is soooo solid and soooo long. I gained xxxx yards over my last overpriced dirver...blah blah blah.....it's soooo worth the high price." So why does this same person turn around and sell such an incredible club the very next week at a loss? (answer at the bottom of this post) Some would argue that you should be able to charge what the market will bear. The trouble is there isn't much competition in the markeplace to drive prices down right now. However, sometimes the market will suddenly get flooded with a certain product such as what happened with the R500's and 200Tours not so long ago that will send these "boutique" sellers into a bit of a tizzy. Suddenly prices are dropped, retroactively even! Since the "tour issue" market is not an established one, and since there are no mass retailers of these products, prices will just continue to fluctuate the way they do now, staying overinflated for the most part and occassionally dipping when someone suddenly has a firesale on TM tour clubs on ebay. This doesn't happen often enough in my opinion. I remember a time when "tour van" or "tour issue" didn't really add much to the value of a club. On ebay prices for these items would seldom top retail prices. Often, they would sell for less than the brand new retail clubs because they were used. I kind of miss those days. Now it would be really nice if a seller of tour equipment just advertised his or her wares in a matter of fact manner. No hype, no sales pitch, no BS about performance enhancement. But that's not going to happen. So if someone wants to present a tour item for what it really is, such as the case here: (Here's the visual difference between the retail 300 forged and the Lehman grind) I think it's great! Now you as a consumer can judge whether you want to pay the difference. Answer to earlier question: On the whole, we tour club ho's are a neurotic bunch. And it's too bad we are so easily preyed upon. 'nuff said. P.S. This is all only about "tour issue" equipment. Imports are another ball of wax entirely.

Yea! I'll grind your big toe first. So you won't walk that fast any more to go to GM. :) JOe I'm going to GM today actually. Probably at lunch. Gonna hit those 704's into the net. Now why on earth would you want to go and hit the 704's for . Are you already planning on dumping the 11's ?? If so I will have to remember not to look in the b/s/t when they are listed :lol: :wink: Don't worry they won't be in the B/S/T anytime soon. Just looking for CB replacements for my MR23's is all. Maybe I'll just get a used set of 300 forged.

Yea! I'll grind your big toe first. So you won't walk that fast any more to go to GM. :) JOe I'm going to GM today actually. Probably at lunch. Gonna hit those 704's into the net.

Hey Joe could you grind my toes to make them like Lehman's? ;eggface Nevermind. P.S. Titleist 704.CB's are in my brain.

Thanks Joe! The PW happened a while back when I first got the set. No idea how. You know how it is when you have to hit out from under trees and stuff. The 4 happened at Metropolitan last time we played I think. But I only hit it off the tee I think so maybe there was something on the tee box?

Thanks Tony but 1/2" is too long for me. Cutting down will lower swingweight too much. Unless they are D5-D6 right now maybe? By the way, pics now available at http://kr0nikbox.sytes.net/mr23

Thanks, Joe. You know me I'm a hard grader for club condition. But then I think you might be even more meticulous than me.

I will just say this, I've tried a number of Tour issue drivers from TM and Titleist since taking my TM 300 Tour out of the bag: TM 510TP, TM 500 Tour, TM 580XD Tour, Titleist 975 JVS Tour, 983K, etc. I just had my 300 Tour reshafted with a Mits Rayon Bleex. I've come to the conclusion that this is still as good a driver as any I have listed above and better than some for me. All this other technology doesn't really amount to more than fancy marketing to sell more clubs. Does this mean I will never change drivers again? Absolutely not! (Joe Kwok is laughing hysterically now) My next driver will either be an Ignite Tiger spec (if it is ever mass produced) or an Ignite 380 (if a "tour" version ever makes it's way online). I am only faithful when it comes to my wife. (I suspect the secretly checks these boards and my Paypal account). As for golf equipment, they are all just a bunch of short flings and one-night stands. Anyone else go back to a 300 Tour and come to the same conclusion?

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