nickmrkonja Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 i was thinking about buying the miura 202 irons then i saw the onoff cb247 irons. they look identical they are both forged by miura but the onoff irons are about a 1000.00 dollars more does anybody have any idea why thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 i was thinking about buying the miura 202 irons then i saw the onoff cb247 irons. they look identical they are both forged by miura but the onoff irons are about a 1000.00 dollars more does anybody have any idea why thanks was wondering the same thing. im sure there is something we are not aware of like the onoff having specialy grounded soles on all of their irons etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmrkonja Posted September 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 was wondering the same thing. im sure there is something we are not aware of like the onoff having specialy grounded soles on all of their irons etc etc. they may but that does not justify 1000.00 more if it was that much better im sure miura would do it on their own clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 they may but that does not justify 1000.00 more if it was that much better im sure miura would do it on their own clubs you have a point, maybe the onoff are tour only but i know that there is another on/off 247 prototype with "prototype" stamped, this one is limited in numbers etc. etc. lets wait for someone with more info to chime in. im curious as well. wanted the 247s but its just way, way beyond my reach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 The ONOFF irons were released recently limited edition but still abundant. They are 100% the same as the ones people label tour only. I have hit these and I think the CB1006 is the better club as they are easier to hit vs the CB247's. They are very very similar and IMO not worth the extra money unless you really like ONOFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Alexander Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 The ONOFF irons were released recently limited edition but still abundant. They are 100% the same as the ones people label tour only.I have hit these and I think the CB1006 is the better club as they are easier to hit vs the CB247's. They are very very similar and IMO not worth the extra money unless you really like ONOFF. Brutally honest. That's why we TSG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 funny , i got comfirmation that the tour were not the same as retail.hhhmmmm different. but who knows , my contact might just be pulling my leg ............. arent the tours supposed to be stamped tour or proto? this is all very confusing:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 funny , i got comfirmation that the tour were not the same as retail.hhhmmmm different. but who knows , my contact might just be pulling my leg ............. I communicate with Daiwa Japan and ONOFF USA weekly. They are on the speed dial list here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 I did a little research on the web and since the limited edition which are retail are from labo spec ONOFF they are the same sets as being used on tour. Hence the high price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmrkonja Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 I did a little research on the web and since the limited edition which are retail are from labo spec ONOFF they are the same sets as being used on tour. Hence the high price. thats fine they are the same sets as whats being used on tour but they are forged by miura so the quality is not better then miura cb202 irons so why is the price 1000.00 more for the onoff irons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 thats fine they are the same sets as whats being used on tour but they are forged by miura so the quality is not better then miura cb202 irons so why is the price 1000.00 more for the onoff irons Main reason is because that is what Daiwa wants to charge for them, second is it's Limited Edition, Also we don't know specifics of how the tolerance was ordered, it does cost more for tighter tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmrkonja Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Main reason is because that is what Daiwa wants to charge for them, second is it's Limited Edition, Also we don't know specifics of how the tolerance was ordered, it does cost more for tighter tolerance.you mean they might be tighter tolerence then a miura iron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Main reason is because that is what Daiwa wants to charge for them, second is it's Limited Edition, Also we don't know specifics of how the tolerance was ordered, it does cost more for tighter tolerance. sorry for the ignorance but what do you mean when you say tighter tolerance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmrkonja Posted September 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 sorry for the ignorance but what do you mean when you say tighter tolerance? chris stated that the cb247 may have tighter tolerences thats why they may cost more and my question is doesnt miura make clubs as well as anybody in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upndowninthree Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 chris stated that the cb247 may have tighter tolerences thats why they may cost more and my question is doesnt miura make clubs as well as anybody in the world I'm sure that Miura makes a great product, but tight tolerances when you're talkin about golf clubs as opposed to aerospace technology, or even a fine swiss watch are two different worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I'm not saying it does or doesn't have a tighter tolorence, I'm simply saying there could be a variety of unknown reasons it costs a lot more. Main reason IMO is that Daiwa wants to price it high. Just my personal opinion but Miura is very basic and traditional, almost outdated technology when it comes to the cutting edge of golf clubs. I know you guys have heard this many times from me but here it goes again, Spin Welded hosels are cheap and Miura's lack of sharp edge tooling is another way to save money. When a manufacture cant afford multiple die's they use spin welded hosels, when a manufacture doest want to pay to have the die's edges re-tooled they design the club with very basic rounded features. OEMs use Miura because they are willing to produce small amounts at low prices yet use Japanese quality steel. OEMs can purchase only 250 sets there. other factories require as many as 4000 pcs of each iron as a minimum not to mention 8 times the tooling costs for more complicated designs. Not bashing Miura we sell a lot of it, and customers are very very happy with it, Im simply stating my opinion that I have learned from visiting several factories and speaking with their staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaykkr Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I'm not saying it does or doesn't have a tighter tolorence, I'm simply saying there could be a variety of unknown reasons it costs a lot more. Main reason IMO is that Daiwa wants to price it high.Just my personal opinion but Miura is very basic and traditional, almost outdated technology when it comes to the cutting edge of golf clubs. I know you guys have heard this many times from me but here it goes again, Spin Welded hosels are cheap and Miura's lack of sharp edge tooling is another way to save money. When a manufacture cant afford multiple die's they use spin welded hosels, when a manufacture doest want to pay to have the die's edges re-tooled they design the club with very basic rounded features. OEMs use Miura because they are willing to produce small amounts at low prices yet use Japanese quality steel. OEMs can purchase only 250 sets there. other factories require as many as 4000 pcs of each iron as a minimum not to mention 8 times the tooling costs for more complicated designs. Not bashing Miura we sell a lot of it, and customers are very very happy with it, Im simply stating my opinion that I have learned from visiting several factories and speaking with their staff. Will have to disagree with you on whats low quality vs high quality.... manufacturing capabilities do not decide whats good or bad (it does play a role)... Expensive - does not necessarily mean good quality.... also cheaper .....does not mean bad..... I am a end user, but know a bit or two about irons....Miura produces some of the best irons overall in terms of feel, performance, looks, etc... The Miura blade is the best I have ever played (tourstage x blade 2 comes close)....and is better than endo forged blades despite all that high end technology....... In the end, the final product counts....not how the iron is manufactured... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Will have to disagree with you on whats low quality vs high quality.... manufacturing capabilities do not decide whats good or bad (it does play a role)...Expensive - does not necessarily mean good quality.... also cheaper .....does not mean bad..... I am a end user, but know a bit or two about irons....Miura produces some of the best irons overall in terms of feel, performance, looks, etc... The Miura blade is the best I have ever played (tourstage x blade 2 comes close)....and is better than endo forged blades despite all that high end technology....... In the end, the final product counts....not how the iron is manufactured... What did I say about low quality vs high quality for you to disagree with? Your post simply says you have a preference for Miura irons. Expensive doesn't mean better I agree, but the blade has been done so many times over the same way, with CG's in the same spot, hosels of the same length and heads in similar shapes. You can find the same performance from Mizuno, Titleist and others. Its not really a matter of high end technology with blades, even lower end Chinese factories will not use spin welded, even Chinese factories create particular die's based on every club. These facts cant be argued, and it would be nice if lower tier brand's couldn't look down on Miura as far as matierials and manufacturing goes but they do. Does that mean you wont like them? Nope. Would you rather not hear anything about this topic? I share this because I have been to Miura, and other factories in Japan to see the process first hand, not many people have and not many people ask them tuff questions like I do. No matter what I say everyone will draw their own conclusions and I respect that. Im glad you like Miura's I can get you a special set that has the exact offset, top line, and customization you want, A set our members have never seen here. PM me to fall in love with your favorite brand in a whole new way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaykkr Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 What did I say about low quality vs high quality for you to disagree with? Your post simply says you have a preference for Miura irons.Expensive doesn't mean better I agree, but the blade has been done so many times over the same way, with CG's in the same spot, hosels of the same length and heads in similar shapes. You can find the same performance from Mizuno, Titleist and others. Its not really a matter of high end technology with blades, even lower end Chinese factories will not use spin welded, even Chinese factories create particular die's based on every club. These facts cant be argued, and it would be nice if lower tier brand's couldn't look down on Miura as far as matierials and manufacturing goes but they do. Does that mean you wont like them? Nope. Would you rather not hear anything about this topic? I share this because I have been to Miura, and other factories in Japan to see the process first hand, not many people have and not many people ask them tuff questions like I do. No matter what I say everyone will draw their own conclusions and I respect that. Im glad you like Miura's I can get you a special set that has the exact offset, top line, and customization you want, A set our members have never seen here. PM me to fall in love with your favorite brand in a whole new way. thanks for the offer.... but its not my fav brand.....just the fav blade.... (and I have almost any worthwhile blade out there...).....if it was the fav brand.... my fav cavity would have been the CB 1006, but its the Af 301 (not that I care about cavities).... in short, my fav club is the one that works best.... thats why my bag has the epon (driver, 3 wood, 5 wood (sometimes), g field - 7 wood, hybrid) irons - miura, wedges, chikara, and putter, premium zone.... not all blades are the same.....the MP 33 is different from the Miura blade...as that blade is different from the fourteen...maybe not much different, but enough to make a difference.... your posts about low quality processes of Miura vs high quality processes of other japan forgings tend to by implication (atleast i read that way and i am sure others do too) deprecate Miura's products ....as an end user, i beg to differ.... whatever processes they use, how ever inferior they are, they do produce world class quality products.... and better than most other brands.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 I agree sir, better than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaykkr Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 I agree sir, better than most. Lets get Endo to make a blade... the MR 23, although good, no longer measures up to other blades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 They make many blades Ajay, Titleist, Nike, and many others. Blades just done sell like cavity backs anymore. You may be excited when the Brushed Satin Yururi Round Sole proto's come to me in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaykkr Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 They make many blades Ajay, Titleist, Nike, and many others. Blades just done sell like cavity backs anymore.You may be excited when the Brushed Satin Yururi Round Sole proto's come to me in November. played them all, but if they can get the feel of the 301s into their blades (and that does not exist in the tourstage, titliest, nike, possibly others that they forge), i think it will be a winner....although agree that blades dont sell..... Round sole proto sure sounds exciting.... given the temperatures in new york this fall, who knows, i may even have time for a round or two after they come... BTW, the yururi blade lofts are more like that of a cavity....hopefully they will have a more traditional blade lofts - PW - 48/49* and then 4* separation until the long irons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Has anyone ever figured out the differences between the CB247 and the CB202? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Has anyone ever figured out the differences between the CB247 and the CB202? Its the same difference between other Miura clubs and the 202, simply different designs from start to finish. It could even be an adjusted tooling from the Nike split cavities we used to see on the tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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