Miura Vs Endo Forgings

[ajaykkr]

We all know the differences between manufacturing processes. This post is not about how they are produced.

Its about how they perform on the course......, feel, accuracy, dispersion, design, flight etc. etc. whatever performance (on course) that makes you prefer one over the other.....

So, shoot your opinions.....

[bjp1]

Its about how they perform on the course......, feel, accuracy, dispersion, design, flight etc. etc. whatever performance (on course) that makes you prefer one over the other.....

I'm comparing CB-301, CB-202 and AF-301. I've had only 2 rounds of play with the AF-301, but feel comfortable talking about initials impressions.

Feel: IMO, Miura's are softer. Comparatively, changes from 2-piece, 3-piece, to multilayer balls had less of an impact on feel in the Miura's compared to the Epons. Different balls produced different sounds of the clubface of the Epons. Some accentuated the "feel" that I believe people have described in the Epons. Others made the Epons very unappealing for me. I'm a solid ballstriker that finds the center clubface consistently. My Epon's have DGS200 installed. I've hit them with Black Gold stiff, and I've already swapped my favorite shaft, Wishon Series 5, to see if my impression on feel improves. As is, my Epon's would be last in the feel category compared to Miura, Mizuno and Bridgestone irons I've owned.

Accuracy/Dispersion/Trajectory: Shafts play a significant part here, so bear that in mind. Epon's are more forgiving on-course, but the Miura's have been more consistent in dispersion. I'm still learning how best the Epon's perform, i.e. steep swing, shallow swing, divots or no divots. I tend to get more consistent trajectory and dispersion hitting them somewhat thin. Epon's hit on a beautiful trajectory, mid-high to high. The trajectory is ideal for me. Epon's haven't performed as well out of the rough compared to the Miura's.

Feel and accuracy are the preferred characteristics that I evaluate equipment on. Does it feel good, and can I hit it consistently?

The Miura CB-301/CB-202 are preferred in both categories.

[al_t]

I've played the CB-301, CB-1006, AF-301, AF-501.

The Epon AF-301 is certainly the best looking, the feel is more of a click than the soft feel of the miura's. Didn't get them to perform that well until I put nippon 1150tour shafts in them, this made a huge difference to the feel and performance of them and for me outperform the miura's hands down. I would say the DG shaft is too heavy for this head as anywhere near US/European std length makes them feel extremely heavy and hard work, but the lighter nippons suit the heavier head perfectly, for me anyway.

The AF-501 is the club I play my best golf with as they are so easy to hit and long irons are ridiculously easy to flight long and high (again with 1150's). So much so that most of my low single figure hcp customers are now playing the 501's with 1150's instead of the 301's. If only they had the same feel!

[jacksonlui]

As for JDMs, I've own the MB5002 (TCS3), Epon J (1150S), and Type S (1150S).

Miura's are better suited for the sweeper or anyone that hits the ball first and is more satisfying for the very good ball striker. The J's weren't that much more forgiving and felt very heavy and looked clunky for some reason. The NiCr on the Epon is a much better finish than the Miura's and lasts longer, love the way it looks. The Miura's felt much better, what people said, feels like the ball stays on the face a little bit longer, similar analogy to how an Epon Driver feels as compare to other offerings.

Since having had some time with the Type S (1150S), I can say that these suit my game very well. So far they are the most forgiving with an occasional hot ball, at times the 6 iron went 180yards instead of my typical 165. This will piss me off if I was shooting for the green, but the several times that this happened, I was laying up. I attribute this to my swing. I can hit all the way down to the 3 iron without too much drama. I can't get over the click and tinny feeling but if you look at it another way, it feels and sounds like expensive metal.

It's hard to argue the playability of the Type S for the midcapper, they are hands down a scoring machine, stops on a dime, great trajectory, average turf interaction, wonderful balance, and the best looking cb I own. Love the shape, compactness, topline, and NiCr finish. This sets up really nice. Because of this, my 695cb (TCS3) put together by Dana Upshaw sits in the garage. On occasions, I'm not getting the distance I need when hitting from the rough.

I also want to add that I'm a picker/sweeper with my bad shots being thin and a pull/hook.

I have a 95mph average driver SS playing once a month to an unofficial 15-20. Driver/Irons are my strengths if you can call it that, putting being my weakest, I basically pray through the course. Any given day I might have several religions *smiles*. I think picking the irons with the right sole is one of the most important.

I'd choose the the Miura blades for the good ball striker, and the Type S for those that need a little more forgivenes, sacrificing purity. IMO, these clubs are tops on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Given this, I think Epon can take all that is good about the Miura baby blades and corner the market with a true player's club. I didn't notice much of a score differential playing between the two sets since I don't go below the 5 iron and I don't really buy it when people say the sweetspot on the blade is the size of a dime, it feels much bigger than that.

Here's an excerpt from an article on blades - "A benefit of smaller heads for players who enter tournaments (play it as it lies) on good courses - where lies in the rough can be nasty - is that the smaller the blade, the easier it is to dig a recovery shot out of long grass. Shovels are much more susceptible to grabbing and twisting. Smaller blades are also much better chipping clubs."

Edited October 16, 2007 by jacksonlui

[ajaykkr]

Here's an excerpt from an article on blades - "A benefit of smaller heads for players who enter tournaments (play it as it lies) on good courses - where lies in the rough can be nasty - is that the smaller the blade, the easier it is to dig a recovery shot out of long grass. Shovels are much more susceptible to grabbing and twisting. Smaller blades are also much better chipping clubs."

I can second that.... in all the feedback i have given, the smaller the blade head, the better it is.

[bjp1]

I would say the DG shaft is too heavy for this head as anywhere near US/European std length makes them feel extremely heavy and hard work, but the lighter nippons suit the heavier head perfectly, for me anyway.

The DGS200's come standard at 37.50" 5i length. I like the overall swingweight, but it feels somewhat out of balance. The Wishon Series 5 shaft is a 110g shaft, and the feel is an improvement over the DG's. I'm going to be trying Nippon and Rifle shafts in the 5i over the next two weeks to decide what will be played in the AF-301's. There's an answer somewhere, I just need to find it quickly!

[ajaykkr]

The DGS200's come standard at 37.50" 5i length. I like the overall swingweight, but it feels somewhat out of balance. The Wishon Series 5 shaft is a 110g shaft, and the feel is an improvement over the DG's. I'm going to be trying Nippon and Rifle shafts in the 5i over the next two weeks to decide what will be played in the AF-301's. There's an answer somewhere, I just need to find it quickly!

try the black gold stiff.....

In my opinion, there are no directly comparable irons of Miura and Epon...... However endo has forged the x blade 2 (a fine blade) and other JDM irons... and a bunch of USDM blades and player cavity backs....thats why i kept the thread to Miura vs Endo forgings (rather than Miura vs Epon)

[bjp1]

try the black gold stiff.....

In my opinion, there are no directly comparable irons of Miura and Epon...... However endo has forged the x blade 2 (a fine blade) and other JDM irons... and a bunch of USDM blades and player cavity backs....thats why i kept the thread to Miura vs Endo forgings (rather than Miura vs Epon)

Tried the Black Gold stiff, and they didn't feel good to me. I'd play BG regular, so that didn't help my impressions.

bp

[K2_2]

As to the original question, man, that is tough! I think that so many of those things would depend on the model of iron (as stated, Endo has done so many clubs for so many manufacturers, it is a little difficult to generalize).

Secondly, I will hazard a guess that not too many people have sought out the best Endo club (from any manufacturerer) and the best Miura iron (any model) for their game and proceeded to spec them out with a good round of fittings. Without doing that, I think a great deal of opinions (mine included, for sure) will be based on finding an Endo or Miura club with a setup that suited their swing at the time. Right now I`d lean towards Endo because my favorite irons of the past have been Endo/TS forged clubs, but these were more forgiving than the Miuras that I compared them to.

Right now, I`m thinking about TS Viq Forged (Endo), the PP-9001 (Miura) and the OnOFF Plus (not sure who puts these together). While I would love to try each with a few different shafts and for a few rounds, that`s not going to happen (time and not-quite unlimited budget... shogunai). Without comparing all three with the same shafts, on course, I will be taking a bit of guess as to what would truly be the best, however, I think all three are solid clubs, and with a good setup, I think I would be happy with any of the three.

[chinkwan]

Miura is god hands (at least it appears on issue after issue on golf gear magazine).. Epon is factory.. ha ha.. just kidding..

seriously hit my share of both.. I prefer Miura hands down.. feel is just better.. personal opinion...

[777]

Are all Miura irons geared for the better player?

[Duffer19]

Are all Miura irons geared for the better player?

For most models that is probably true if you are a decent ball striker but I think the passing point could be his attempt to create a slightly more forgiving design with stronger loft. I am a 14 hdcp and absolutely love my CB201 with nspro 850.

[ClubHoUno]

Are all Miura irons geared for the better player?

My friend was a 14 handicap last year, when he bought the Miura Cb-201 and played just fine with them. His coach told him they were far too demanding for him (my friend is only a decent iron player). Then he bought the very forgiving Ping I5's (from me - we are about the same height and arm length) and used these for two month and NOTHING happened. His handicap stayed the same, in fact he scored a bit better with the Cb-201 set. Chipping is much better with smaller cavity back irons - so what does this prove.....nothing really. Just that you don't need ultra forgiving shovels for irons to play good golf, even if your a two digit handicapper.

[K2_2]

Miura has some forgiving irons; the PP-9001 that I am going to try is supposed to be forgiving, and the 3002 and 3003 are also pretty easy to hit. Someone can correct me if I`m wrong, but I think that the main difference between the two is offset/face progression.

To follow on what Claus said, I wouldn`t pick up the smallest blade I could find, but the most forgiving iron in the world from the tee or a plush lie in the fairway might not be the most playable from all of the other lies that you encounter (side hill, up/down hill, out of the rough, and especially from a tight lie or trying to pull off a delicate chip).