Epon Blades

[jnims29]

it does look a lot like the MP32 had kids with a Nike symbol.

i'll wait to formulate on an initial impression till there's more info on the technology behind this set.

so far I like the Tourstage 901.

I completely agree as far as looks are concerned. Regarding the upside down nike symbol looks different I'm sure it serves a purpose. Besides, we do not know what that actually retail version will look like. I will say that if they perform, it will be a very tough decision between AF-tours, MB-5003 or TS 901.

I know at my club everyone will think they are some nike knockoff. Some people...

[tourAD]

can't wait to see the "TSG standard" pictures...

Edited October 30, 2008 by tourAD

[ajaykkr]

Where did you hear about the Epon AFTour? TSG of course and almost half a year ago.

That Japanese Blog is a JPGA Players who is sponsored by EPON. The images are of his actual bag, he is a close friend of the company I believe.

We had the images and others over a month ago but the pics themselves are not to TSG's standard.

Granted. Thanks.

[tourAD]

when will the *TSG* pics of these blades be out??

[+TourSpecGolfer]

when will the *TSG* pics of these blades be out??

Not sure but the official release date of the AF TOUR is Nov 20th.

[jnims29]

Not sure but the official release date of the AF TOUR is Nov 20th.

Off topic, but i noticed in your sig you are hitting the new mizzy r1. Did this actually knock the AF101 out of the bag?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Off topic, but i noticed in your sig you are hitting the new mizzy r1. Did this actually knock the AF101 out of the bag?

Just recently it did. I first switched back to the older ZR460 by Epon for that slightly softer feel and more forgiveness, then back to the PRGR and now just started using the new Mizuno driver. It feels like the prior MP Craft but more forgiving. I am really itching to try the new Srixon Driver.

[88 ROUNDS PER YEAR]

First of all, I am not trying to kill forum members' great enthusiasm or anticipation for EPON Blade here. But, IMHO, from the pics, I could not see any advance technology as I had hoped to see. I was actually expecting to see something that might be a development from their excellent wedge design: manipulating COGs to create great feel, and different spin rates and trajectories. Certainly, among blade designs, the different distributions of club head mass will enhance different player's ability to square to club face at impact or to knock down with solid feel. Therefore, some players would prefer some blade designs over the others. However, the upside down swoosh seems to be there mainly for cosmetic purpose. To me it seems to be just another set of blades. (Hope I am wrong.) The blade technology may have really reached its plateau stage. Miura seems to know this, eventhough he said that he was constantly trying to improve on blade designs. This is also why the dated MP14 and MP29 (despite a little too much offset for my taste) still play as good as my new MB-5003. Anyway, they look great, and as with anything from Epon, they should be one of the best blades money can buy. I might as well purchase it with the happy thought that I would own two of the best blades in the market (MB-5003 and AF Tour.)

[ajaykkr]

.............two of the best blades in the market (MB-5003 and AF Tour.)

I just hope that they dont disappoint as much as the AF301s did, which despite the claim of being player's CB are more mid handicapper's cbs.

[idrive]

I just hope that they dont disappoint as much as the AF301s did, which despite the claim of being player's CB are more mid handicapper's cbs.

I haven't found a more compact head, thinner top line or sole and with less off set. Which is what I look for in a players CB.

And then there's feel... even on the mis hits the 301's feel better than the rest. When striking the ball well I haven't found any club of any kind that feels better.

Just my opinions, I do respect and like reading yours. So, What would you consider to be a better players CB?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

First of all, I am not trying to kill forum members' great enthusiasm or anticipation for EPON Blade here. But, IMHO, from the pics, I could not see any advance technology as I had hoped to see. I was actually expecting to see something that might be a development from their excellent wedge design: manipulating COGs to create great feel, and different spin rates and trajectories. Certainly, among blade designs, the different distributions of club head mass will enhance different player's ability to square to club face at impact or to knock down with solid feel. Therefore, some players would prefer some blade designs over the others. However, the upside down swoosh seems to be there mainly for cosmetic purpose. To me it seems to be just another set of blades. (Hope I am wrong.) The blade technology may have really reached its plateau stage. Miura seems to know this, eventhough he said that he was constantly trying to improve on blade designs. This is also why the dated MP14 and MP29 (despite a little too much offset for my taste) still play as good as my new MB-5003. Anyway, they look great, and as with anything from Epon, they should be one of the best blades money can buy. I might as well purchase it with the happy thought that I would own two of the best blades in the market (MB-5003 and AF Tour.)

I kinda agree with ya

For sure the Tourstage 901 is the best looking blade on the market and the 5003 I would rank second but we can't make assumptions about performance or technology until we hit it against others with the same or similar shafts and specs.

I am not sure if it has infused tungsten to lower the CG in the long irons like Tourstage models and IMO this whole upside down swoosh thing appears to mimic what Mizuno's cut muscle tries to accomplish.

The 208KGX design simply doesn't work on muscle backs. The purpose of the wedge design is to raise the center of gravity and as we all know shorter hosel muscle back irons already have a high COG.

It appears Epon like Tourstage are taking weight away from the top to lower the COG thus making the club more forgiving. Mizuno put the cut muscle almost center with the wider area out near the toe while Epon's method does seem more logical, placing the cut out closer to the top line and removing weight from the hosel area instead of the toe providing a better sweet spot location closer to center.

What I do not agree with is that the MP-14 & MP-29 stack up against today's modern blades. The blade of today is much more forgiving and that includes the MP-33/32/37/67 Take a look at the sharp leading edge and CG placement way close to the heel in the 14/29. btw I think those old Mizunos were actually produced by Endo if I am not mistaken.

Miura unfortunately doesn't have the ability to infuse tungsten into heads or do sharp tooling designs like Tourstage or Epon does but their shape, feel, and performance do acomplish the task at hand with flying colors.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I just hope that they dont disappoint as much as the AF301s did, which despite the claim of being player's CB are more mid handicapper's cbs.

I test pretty much all of the top JDM irons and the AF301's were SOLID and in the bag for a very long time. I must have had 4 or 5 different sets I liked them so much.

I consider them a players CB. When looking at the top line thickness in mm it is in the same ball park of players CB's also the face progression is too. What makes you think its for a mid capper when many Japanese Pro's opt to play much larger CB's on tour?

The fact that I am able to work the ball fairly easily with the 301 Imo proves its a players CB to me. Perhaps you should take a look at the new Tourstage CB. .5mm thinner top line and less offset.

What I do find to be a disappointment is that it went from Technica Pro 1, to Epon Type J, and now AF301 without a change in design. It's time for new model Epon! I too would be happier if they made it smaller.

[jacksonlui]

i've owned the Type J for a brief time and also found that they looked bulky for a player's cavity back. Although on paper they looked good but it was something with the way it looked for me. I had much better luck with the R7 Forged irons. They still felt great but wasn't everything i had hoped for, it could very well be that it was hyped so much, my expectations were WAY up there. Kinda of like going to movies, i hate to go in there expecting the best movie ever, it only disappoints.

however, I value ALL the feedback from everyone on this forum. I've learned to to listen to feedback from certain members more than others and this has worked out well for me. So for those that have been touting Miura blades....well they are the real deal. So far the Miura blades and Type S is the real deal for me.

I'm very interested in the 901 because it looks nice and has advanced technology inserts. I'm very surprised Epon hasn't infused tungsten in their blades.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

i've owned the Type J for a brief time and also found that they looked bulky for a player's cavity back. Although on paper they looked good but it was something with the way it looked for me. I had much better luck with the R7 Forged irons. They still felt great but wasn't everything i had hoped for, it could very well be that it was hyped so much, my expectations were WAY up there. Kinda of like going to movies, i hate to go in there expecting the best movie ever, it only disappoints.

however, I value ALL the feedback from everyone on this forum. I've learned to to listen to feedback from certain members more than others and this has worked out well for me. So for those that have been touting Miura blades....well they are the real deal. So far the Miura blades and Type S is the real deal for me.

I'm very interested in the 901 because it looks nice and has advanced technology inserts. I'm very surprised Epon hasn't infused tungsten in their blades.

Well if you enjoy the Type S you would also love the CB-2006. Very similar in forgiveness and size with the edge going to Miura in the feel department and that lack of undercut in the long irons.

[idrive]

Most people that tout the Miura blades love the way they look, set up, the craftsmanship, quality and of course love the way they feel when flushed but quite frankly don't have the game to score with them and need an Iron with more forgiveness.

I own and have played the Epon 301 and 501's. For playability, look at address, feel and sound the 301's are the better Iron.

Miura hasn't infused Tungstun... but they still seem to be the real deal.

Can't wait to hit the AF Tours.

[88 ROUNDS PER YEAR]

... we all know shorter hosel muscle back irons already have a high COG.

... Epon's method does seem more logical, placing the cut out closer to the top line and removing weight from the hosel area instead of the toe providing a better sweet spot location closer to center.

... I do not agree with is that the MP-14 & MP-29 stack up against today's modern blades. The blade of today is much more forgiving and that includes the MP-33/32/37/67 Take a look at the sharp leading edge and CG placement way close to the heel in the 14/29. btw I think those old Mizunos were actually produced by Endo if I am not mistaken.

Do these new Epon blades have tungsten infused? That will be interesting. Yesterday, I have seen a better picture of it, and it looks so really great.

From the design standpoint, I totally agree with you that Epon is more logical trying to skew more weight to the toe area to enhance playability and feel on mis**t, perhaps, among mid handicap golfers as their off center hits are more toward the toe. IMHO, most old design blades with a sweet spot not located in the middle of the 2-3 lowest groove lines are poorly designed club. Why should we aim to hit close to the hosel instead of center!

If we look carefully, the MP29 does have a similar (modern?) design regarding placement of center of mass. There seems to be more mass toward the toe of the MP29. Do not look at the back with the slight slant of the muscle back, but do look at the sole of the MP29 and you would see. The Epon blade seems to be even more elaborated on this design approach but with more emphasis on the muscle back portion. I had played MP29 with DGS300 for six years until I wore off the grooves. (I love it so much because I got my second and third hole in one with it.) I do not have a hard data at hand but I do think the MP29's sweet spot seems to be right in the middle of the (full) groove line (which may or may be not in the middle between the toe and the heel). Before I purchased MB-5003, I also bought MP67. Despite the cosmetic differences, I do not find the MP67 to be any more "playable" or more forgiving than the MP29. I, along with many old time Mizuno fans, think the MP29 gives a much more solid feel. I have been disappointed by recent Mizuno MP models with the soft mushy feel. They also ding easily. I think they just do not make it like they used to.

It has been quite a while since golf club designers have been trying to improve the playability of blades, but not much could be done without trade offs in feel (less solid), or look (size, offset, topline). Nothing (yet) escapes the law of physics.

BTW, I believe that MP29 were forged by Mizuno, not Endo. And I think, with everything equal, the short hosel irons have lower COG, not high COG. That is why most wedges have long hosels to move the COG higher. Please correct me if I am wrong.

That is why for the new Epon blade, just from the look alone, I could not see any critical technology or a breakthrough design that would make it any different from any other modern blades. So I cited the MP29 as a benchmark. Sorry, I did not know about the tungsten infusion, and I should not have jumped into any conclusion before hitting any club. Are they of the same sizes as AF301, club by club?

Anyway, the new Epon Blade is just too beautiful. I will have to call King at Golf Craft to see if they have arrived in Bangkok.

Thanks.

[jacksonlui]

that's why based on just reading, I would choose the 901 over the AF Tour and MB5003. However, sometimes you can't base a decision on advertising alone...for many there aren't any other options due to the unavailability...

[88 ROUNDS PER YEAR]

I saw and hit a few shots into a net with AF Tour yesterday. Here is my first impression.

Quality Material/Finishing : same as other Epon models-excellent.

Appearance: Very modern looking blade, design clearly shows COG manipulation in the muscle back area from long irons to short irons. Size is smaller than AF301 just a tad. I personally do not like the bright chrome finishing however.

At Set Up: Less offset than AF301, slightly thinner topline. Much less intimidating than MB-5003 due to its larger and long blade size.

Feel: I can not conclude on this because the shaft is NS Pro 750 which I think is too light and does not provide a very solid feel. My gut feeling is that the Black Gold, NS 1150, or Dynamic Gold would be excellent choice to go with these heads.

Technology: There is no infusion of any material. No tungsten, no titanium. Just what Mizuno has been doing for the past several years. IMHO, just because Epon is a house brand of Endo does not guarantee that its product has the best design or use the latest technology. Epon may use Endo's best material and the best manufacturing process availble (and so do Endo's other premium OEMs like Tourstage, Fourteen, PRGR), but some excellent designs are "owned" or even patented. Anyway, there may be advance technologies used in designing or manufacturing these AF Tour heads, but it is visually subtle.

Edited November 18, 2008 by 88 ROUNDS PER YEAR

[sarintr]

Epon brand establish 1977 . I saw Epon wooden driver head. **Everythings on this earth are expensive by feel. Somebody use MAYBACH. not R R. Not everybody have MAYBACH, right

[88 ROUNDS PER YEAR]

Epon brand establish 1977 . I saw Epon wooden driver head. **Everythings on this earth are expensive by feel. Somebody use MAYBACH. not R R. Not everybody have MAYBACH, right

What is your point, Khun Sarintr? Are you comparing Epon as MAYBACH or RR? Anyway, if I were to choose between the two, I would go with MAYBACH for the technology.

Edited November 18, 2008 by 88 ROUNDS PER YEAR

[idrive]

Thanks for the write up.

A couple of things... did you hit off of a mat or grass. I have personally decided hitting off mats make it very hard to get any kind of feel for a club.

NSPro 750's??? That just doesn't make any sense to me. These irons are obviously made for the better ball striker. I don't know anyone that would choose/use that shaft.

Wouldn't you agree a better shaft would enhance the feel by a large margin?

Here's hoping they come out with a satin finish soon.

Still... can't wait to hit these puppy's.

Something tells me the......

Distance control

Consistancy

Trajectory

Feel

Spin

are going to make this a set of Blades worth owning

Mine will be shafted with the KBS Tours

[jacksonlui]

thanks for the review 88,

can you compare this in terms of feel and performance over the mb5003?

does this mean that you are going to pickup a set of 901's?

a snafu has hung up my 901's for another 3 weeks so i can't do a review.

[88 ROUNDS PER YEAR]

idrive & jacksonlui

As I said in my previous post. I could not (and would not) conclude on the feel and performance. I tested it on a mat into a net, therefore, I cound not tell about trajectory, spin, distance control or anything. However, from the look and design of the head alone (without the shaft factor), I will bet they are much easier to play than Miura MB5003. Also, just by looking at the sole and muscle back thickness, I GUESS they will not feel MUCH more solid than AF 301 (which is already extremely solid by any standard.)

I also tried AF301 with Black Gold. It felt great and I loved it. But as we all know, shafts usually effect feel more than heads. I had been playing DG S300 for the past 6 years, so the NS Pro 750 felt like a plastic stick to me: very light and hallow, no meat in the shaft! I was very surprised to see the AF Tour shafted with NS Pro 750 too. This is the first time that I see anybody put a very light shaft into a blade. (How could we get control and precision from such a light shaft? That shaft choice just kills the blade concept.)

Yes, I am also looking at TS901 but they are not availble in Thailand yet. TSG price is very reasonable, but I would have to pay US$ 130 for shipping plus taxes, plus reshafting them with BG or KB Tour. So buying it wihtout even seeing it is a bit risky. I am still undecided. I would highly appreciate your feedback on TS 901, jacksonlui. Thanks.

Edited November 18, 2008 by 88 ROUNDS PER YEAR

[jacksonlui]

can't provide feedback yet, won't get them till another week or two.