Newcomer in the forged world

[Stefsan]

Good morning y'all.

Just joined the forum. Linving in Holland, currently hcp 26. Playing with Ping G10, i5 to sw, the workhorse under the clubs. I recently played with a bloke with Miura clubs. A complete different feeling. He got me really excited. Did some googeling and found this forum. After exploiting the posts and the forumshop, I fell in love with the brand Epon. Found a clubfitter in Holland and talked extensively with him. He has a 'good name' in Holland, reliable and trustworthy. I do not expect to increase my hcp. I hope to lower it to 20, but I realise that I might play just not enough. But with some lessons during the winter and practise, who knows what spring might offer next year.

I am going to buy a set of Epon, thinking hard about the 502 series, maybe the 701. Probably the KBS shaft, but I have to say I do not know very much about shafts. As I understand I can personalize the clubs as I want it, colour, initials, you name it. I don't feel like any maddness, the beauty is simplicity as allways with Japanese quality. It might look simpel, but it isn't. Thinking about initials tough. It is going to be a set I want to keep. And, offcourse, headcovers for each club.

Any suggestions or tips I can get a closer look at the Epon irons?

[gbs]

Good morning y'all.

Just joined the forum. Linving in Holland, currently hcp 26. Playing with Ping G10, i5 to sw, the workhorse under the clubs. I recently played with a bloke with Miura clubs. A complete different feeling. He got me really excited. Did some googeling and found this forum. After exploiting the posts and the forumshop, I fell in love with the brand Epon. Found a clubfitter in Holland and talked extensively with him. He has a 'good name' in Holland, reliable and trustworthy. I do not expect to increase my hcp. I hope to lower it to 20, but I realise that I might play just not enough. But with some lessons during the winter and practise, who knows what spring might offer next year.

I am going to buy a set of Epon, thinking hard about the 502 series, maybe the 701. Probably the KBS shaft, but I have to say I do not know very much about shafts. As I understand I can personalize the clubs as I want it, colour, initials, you name it. I don't feel like any maddness, the beauty is simplicity as allways with Japanese quality. It might look simpel, but it isn't. Thinking about initials tough. It is going to be a set I want to keep. And, offcourse, headcovers for each club.

Any suggestions or tips I can get a closer look at the Epon irons?

I was almost like you. I was about hcp 23 and using Maruman Irons. I thought it was time to buy a new set and a new mindset to the game. I came across this site and got to know Miura and Epon. Since i was a high Hdcper. i got myself the Epon 701 as i needed a game improvement set, also i found that the topline was thinner than many and i had so much confidence using it. I was hitting it longer , straighter and i could not believe how forgiving it was. I got my handicap down to about 18 in the next few months (don't forget took a lot of hardwork and practice to get there)..

Now as my game got better i will opt for the 502s or many choices out there as i am more confident striking the ball and looking for a club that is more workable. I am pretty sure you will enjoy the 701s and improve your game.

[shacco]

Good morning y'all.

Just joined the forum. Linving in Holland, currently hcp 26. Playing with Ping G10, i5 to sw, the workhorse under the clubs. I recently played with a bloke with Miura clubs. A complete different feeling. He got me really excited. Did some googeling and found this forum. After exploiting the posts and the forumshop, I fell in love with the brand Epon. ... I am going to buy a set of Epon, thinking hard about the 502 series, maybe the 701. ... It is going to be a set I want to keep. ...

First of all, welcome to this forum. As you can see I shortened your post to your "crucial" statements ;) Well, it's gonna be tough to keep your word on that ("It is going to be a set I want to keep.") since you found this forum. I was sort of in the same boat when I found this forum. Just interested in equipment at firt. Now I find myself wanting new equipment every 2 hours;) hehehe.

Sorry that I can't really help you. But I'm sure a lot of knowledgeable people will chime in to help you out.

[Stefsan]

First of all, welcome to this forum. As you can see I shortened your post to your "crucial" statements ;) Well, it's gonna be tough to keep your word on that ("It is going to be a set I want to keep.") since you found this forum. I was sort of in the same boat when I found this forum. Just interested in equipment at firt. Now I find myself wanting new equipment every 2 hours;) hehehe.

Sorry that I can't really help you. But I'm sure a lot of knowledgeable people will chime in to help you out.

What puzzles me, is that you don't see a lot of people playing Japanese irons (Mizuno the exception, that prooves the rule). I know that pro's are paid to play with the products of the big companies. So, you can take those guys out of the equation. Secondly, Japanes irons might be more expensive than the big brands, which you can buy in any store. But it depends. I remember when I bought my Ping G-10, I paid € 135,- per club. The fitter roughly will charge € 150,- per club, without the archie fargy stuff. And I guess the Epons will bring me so much, or maybe other, joy then the Ping's, altough I am very satisfied with them. Is it a lack of knowledge about the quality of the Japanes irons?

I do not know what to expect when I will play thos irons... The feeling.

[ant]

why does it puzzle you ? most folks are fine with what they can get off the shelf. not everybody can justify extra effort and expense getting JDM or any kind of custom clubs. you can take Mizuno for another example here. you can get them off the shelf but then the options are so limited that you gonna end up taking them to a club builder or rebuilding them yourself anyway and by the time you are done its probably gonna cost you roughly the same effort/cash as that custom set to begin with if you count your time as money.

What puzzles me, is that you don't see a lot of people playing Japanese irons (Mizuno the exception, that prooves the rule). I know that pro's are paid to play with the products of the big companies. So, you can take those guys out of the equation. Secondly, Japanes irons might be more expensive than the big brands, which you can buy in any store. But it depends. I remember when I bought my Ping G-10, I paid € 135,- per club. The fitter roughly will charge € 150,- per club, without the archie fargy stuff. And I guess the Epons will bring me so much, or maybe other, joy then the Ping's, altough I am very satisfied with them. Is it a lack of knowledge about the quality of the Japanes irons?

I do not know what to expect when I will play thos irons... The feeling.

[Bunker18]

Yes, get your Epons totall customized to your specs. But, IMO epons look best with the standard finish and no initials. The clean classic look is what appeals to me.

Not sure about the shaft because i don't know much about your swing. I would test several at the clubmaker and get fitted with a shaft that gives you the best results.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

If you hold out, rumor has it that there is a 702 coming.

[gbs]

If you hold out, rumor has it that there is a 702 coming.

That will be a good one to wait for, and what i like about Epon is that they don't come out with new models every year. Somewhat like an European Car. They update their model only every 2-3 years.

[supo]

If you hold out, rumor has it that there is a 702 coming.

hahahha.hahahah, rumour has it ......... coming from you.

stop toyng with us C

just HAND over the date! !!

[gbs]

hahahha.hahahah, rumour has it ......... coming from you.

stop toyng with us C

just HAND over the date! !!

are you going to get one but??? :)

Anyone know what's it gonna look like?

[Stefsan]

The story goes on. To make things clear. I live in The Netherlands. My road to a set of Epons, a once in a lifetime buy.

I ha e-mail contact with a club fitter. I've asked around. My pro (in a narcistic way: my swingcoach ), knew the guy. I've talked to some other golfers, and they were very satisfied about the products. The proces.

First we do a fittingsession, fitter wants to measure all the relevant data. The grip, the shaft. He speaks that he is not a 'material pusher', but of course I understand that eventually he wants to sell the material. When he knows the specs, he will make an iron, which I can use to practise. To feel. To judge. To experience the swingweight. If they need some more weight (or less), he will adjust. Finally the irons are build. I set my sight on the AF-502, should be better than AF-501. Not sure about 702, I will ask.

Next step, a date fore the session, somewhere in February (he is a busy man).

Prices, might interes you all. They range from € 150, - to € 250,- per iron (shaft, grip etc.). So they will probably cost me 5 - pw + SW around € 1.400,-. Roughly $ 1,800,-.

Diary update will follow after fitting session

[Stefsan]

This is a confused man typing words.

I had some e-mail conversation with the fitter in which he explained me tehe fitting proces. It sounded trustfully, building one iron to test and play (after measuring etc of course) and from then one building the set. Talked to the phone, that was roughly on month ago. Since then, complete silence. No reaction to my e-mails, or left messages on his cell.

Strange! That's no way of doing buisiness. Sadly, there seems to be no alternative fitter in Holland where I can buy a set of Epon from. There is one official certified Miura dealer, but a Miura iron will probably cost me about € 250,-. Let alone I am completely onaware which Miura's I should buy, playing from a hcp 26 looking to an hcp of around 20 which could be done after wintertraining.

Might sounds strange, but I am very disappointed. I set my sights on a beautiful set of irons, which seems to go up in smoke. On top of that, I am not clear what to do, Maybe it's better to buy a second hand of clubs. Furthermore, I have no exact insight to my specs. That makes me hestitate aboute buying irons from internet. Of couse I visited the proshop, and watched the Epon, and also noticed that I can not order a new set of Epon from Holland. Wisely, because if what I do understand, it is an exact proces to match the clubs to the specs.

All in all, very disappointing, a set of Epon is completely out of reach, the only two options a the Miura as mentioned above or a set of Vega. But I am not sure vega can match Epon let alone Miuara.

Questions, questions, picking my brain, rocking me back and forth.

[supo]

This is a confused man typing words.

I had some e-mail conversation with the fitter in which he explained me tehe fitting proces. It sounded trustfully, building one iron to test and play (after measuring etc of course) and from then one building the set. Talked to the phone, that was roughly on month ago. Since then, complete silence. No reaction to my e-mails, or left messages on his cell.

Strange! That's no way of doing buisiness. Sadly, there seems to be no alternative fitter in Holland where I can buy a set of Epon from. There is one official certified Miura dealer, but a Miura iron will probably cost me about € 250,-. Let alone I am completely onaware which Miura's I should buy, playing from a hcp 26 looking to an hcp of around 20 which could be done after wintertraining.

Might sounds strange, but I am very disappointed. I set my sights on a beautiful set of irons, which seems to go up in smoke. On top of that, I am not clear what to do, Maybe it's better to buy a second hand of clubs. Furthermore, I have no exact insight to my specs. That makes me hestitate aboute buying irons from internet. Of couse I visited the proshop, and watched the Epon, and also noticed that I can not order a new set of Epon from Holland. Wisely, because if what I do understand, it is an exact proces to match the clubs to the specs.

All in all, very disappointing, a set of Epon is completely out of reach, the only two options a the Miura as mentioned above or a set of Vega. But I am not sure vega can match Epon let alone Miuara.

Questions, questions, picking my brain, rocking me back and forth.

HMMM THATS terrible.

dont fret thast what this site is all about.

have NO fear with vega. none what so ever. simply beautifully crafted irons.

you can throw a blanket over all those u mentioned.

epon is the softest. miura and vega more solid.

orde form here! they have all the clubs u need.

at 20 ish handicap prob epon 502 would be ur best bet.... vega or kyoei have a look in the pro shop get T to sort you out, its simple and easy.

i will GUARANTE you kyoei are every bit as good as anything out here.

[Stefsan]

HMMM THATS terrible.

dont fret thast what this site is all about.

have NO fear with vega. none what so ever. simply beautifully crafted irons.

you can throw a blanket over all those u mentioned.

epon is the softest. miura and vega more solid.

orde form here! they have all the clubs u need.

at 20 ish handicap prob epon 502 would be ur best bet.... vega or kyoei have a look in the pro shop get T to sort you out, its simple and easy.

i will GUARANTE you kyoei are every bit as good as anything out here.

Thanks.

What do you mean with 'get T to sort you out'? stupid question, but who is T? What i've heard is that kyoei can't match epon but you do pay the price for it. In other words, not the same quality.

I'll check out the proshop.Within 2 weeks I'll speak to my pro and I'll ask him about my specs, what to look for.

As mentioned, I am a newcomer....

[supo]

Thats nonsense i own all the above and i GAME kuoei more than the others those kyoei heads have the most spent on them of all my sticks.

Vega is kyoeis brand in europe they come from sme place

epon are softer kyiei are more direct shooters irons. T or gocchin is the man to speak to sen him pm u will be sorted properly

[Stefsan]

I've send Gocchin a pb...

[Above_Beyond]

Dont fret about losing out on the epons - they are nice no question.

There is a joke in Japan that epon and vega irons are made with the reforged scraps of miuras.

I love miura - and own a set of the baby blades (which I am yet to game as they are a bit too pretty (i got them because they were ltd. ed. and i love the series 1957 (I game the KM350 putter and K grind wedge from the same series)). Im not sure what the MG miura giken stuff is that they sell in the shop here (certainly is ugly), but Miura: Miura Golf/ has the best clubs on the market (in terms of Irons) - No question epon/vega make better woods.

However, as an alternative, especially since you are just getting in to the forged world: check out KZG: KZG Golf (the miura dealer probably carries them) check out a set of their Evolutions or Evolution pros: Great performance for value especially from a japanese forged iron, their blades are better than Vega's and on par with epon's so you cant go wrong- and for you the forged cavities will be very playable as you work to move your handicap down below 20. Avoid going for the ZO blades - I love mine and would recommend them - but definitely for low low HCPs who want to shape the ball and work it around the course (they have no forgiveness). Final option - if you want to try good forged irons on a low budget - get a set of geotechs from the proshop on here. You will be able to get some nice components with extra cash you save. Geotech makes great clubs and the difference between geotechs and vegas wont be noticible until you move the HCP down a bit - so you leave yourself some great room to work and grow as a golfer!

Final thoughts: As in my signature: Look into your heart and play w/e the hell makes you happy! If the epons are the only clubs for you - dont get discouraged by one jackass club fitter - find a way to get them. TSG is very well respected and you should have no fear ordering from them.

But seriously consider all your options, if you have any questions feel free to ask: I have played Epons, Miuras, KZG and have hit Vegas, RC etc

:)

[Spoon]

Dont fret about losing out on the epons - they are nice no question.

There is a joke in Japan that epon and vega irons are made with the reforged scraps of miuras.

that is really funny!

btw i notice you love kzg! i used to game the #4 q fairway wood for years. nothing could kick it out of the bag

very easy to hit but i changed the stock paragon shaft as i was getting too much spin for my liking, stayed loyal

to me til i discovered the 17egg. kzg has some good offerings, and value for your money as well.

[supo]

well ive never heard that.......

and i play all those irons, and ill state the 2 Big forging houses ihome brand irons are every inch as good as mr miuras. not sure if id go so far as to say better or worse. in fact if u ask about u might find a prety humongous school of thought here that says contrary.!

miura 1957s are very very sweet players design , being an incrediblly small head they are really surprisingly easy to hit.

the miura giken range are japan models the 1957 s are US model

the giken are slighly differnt shape and thickness to suit the japanese grass.

they most certianly DO NOT look gross sitting in a bag on the back of a cart.... in fact they look MOST elegant indeed.

if u see the type of palyers that bag the"isms" u might get wee bit humbled.

in terms of playability epons feel best.. miuras are the most workable . kyoei most solid and direct point shoot.

kyoei i tihnk are the best for distance control and into the wind THATS what i bag over everything.

if u have a hit with my kyoeis u might earnstly disagree with whoever said that above.

[Spoon]

in terms of playability epons feel best.. miuras are the most workable . kyoei most solid and direct point shoot.

kyoei i tihnk are the best for distance control and into the wind THATS what i bag over everything.

if u have a hit with my kyoeis u might earnstly disagree with whoever said that above.

interesting observations. i have never had the priviledge of owning ang kyoeis or miuras but have a set of miura forged onoff that i

will be gaming soon as well as a kyoei forged sandwedge?? anyway i may have had some kyoei forged wedges before. Chris can you

confirm if the shinagawa wedges were forged in kyoei? those were the best wedges i have ever had of all time. i regret selling my brand

new pair of 51.57 to a local! it even was stamped 'spoon' those were indeed PNS. may not have been the softest but certainly performed

as stated. and man would they shred balls!

i just got an idea, will try to buy em back hehe

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Shinagawa was the old man grinder, pretty popular dude in Himeji. They were raw blanks he purchased and hand ground. Not sure where they were forged.

I know the owner of Kyoei pretty well, They make good stuff but delays and some QC issues haunt them. That's my take as I have sold hundreds of pieces of their product over the years and even had the Seven Hills wedge produced there along with some other hush hush projects I supported. When Kyoei is ON, They are ON!

Now with Miura, god I hate to get into this because so many retail customers think they know the skinny... TADA mfg forges Miura golf clubs. It's funny another forum posted a youtube video called the Miura forging process. The video clearly show's TADA mfg. I do think Miura makes top quality product. Tolerance is tops due to spin welded hosels but spin welded hosels are dated and a very cheap way to adjust and keep specs stable. Saves a ton of money in tooling.

[Spoon]

Shinagawa was the old man grinder, pretty popular dude in Himeji. They were raw blanks he purchased and hand ground. Not sure where they were forged.

I know the owner of Kyoei pretty well, They make good stuff but delays and some QC issues haunt them. That's my take as I have sold hundreds of pieces of their product over the years and even had the Seven Hills wedge produced there along with some other hush hush projects I supported. When Kyoei is ON, They are ON!

Now with Miura, god I hate to get into this because so many retail customers think they know the skinny... TADA mfg forges Miura golf clubs. It's funny another forum posted a youtube video called the Miura forging process. The video clearly show's TADA mfg. I do think Miura makes top quality product. Tolerance is tops due to spin welded hosels but spin welded hosels are dated and a very cheap way to adjust and keep specs stable. Saves a ton of money in tooling.

C, since we are discussing miura I know you have discussed this before but can no longer find the thread, what can you tell me about the nike split protos and the onoff cb247s? i finally found a set of onoffs and from what i know they are forged in miura same as the nike splits. i know for everything else in the onoff line they are forged in Nelson china. i am wondering though since the other offerings of Onoff forged irons are darn good, why they would choose miura to do their onoff CB247 line? Am i missing something here? also cannot distinguish any major difference between the nike splits, 247s and miura 202 aside from subtle grind differences but they all look to be from the same mold

[supo]

[Now with Miura, god I hate to get into this because so many retail customers think they know the skinny... TADA mfg forges Miura golf clubs. It's funny another forum posted a youtube video called the Miura forging process. The video clearly show's TADA mfg. I do think Miura makes top quality product. Tolerance is tops due to spin welded hosels but spin welded hosels are dated and a very cheap way to adjust and keep specs stable. Saves a ton of money in tooling.

aha........., i saw that. it created all sort of ruckus on wrx . guys were getting into fisticuffs hand over fist supporting or condeming it.

why dont they just say hey our stuff is pressed over yonder? and get it out clean.

i dont care , im only concerned with the finished product. so far all his irons ive hit have been pretty darn tasty.

but as ive stated..., there many and varied that are as good better what ever.

the kyoei guys are a funny lot, they get pretty stressed about orders.., gotta be communication breakdowns.

im still lwaiting for my new 3 and 4 iron to match my supo set that i ordered over a month and a half ago!

im sure when they finally do get here tho itll be worth the wait.

[Spoon]

never owned anything kyoei. maybe kyoei forged just maybe. when i can drop my cap to somewhere in the low singles

i will definetely get a set of kyoei blades only becuase you so highly praise them and i can see why. do they make any

smallish profile driving irons? if they do would like to get one

[Stefsan]

Nice thought's I've read in the reply's above. As suggested by Supo, I've contacted Gochin. And he informed me pretty well. I also did some reading in the Blog's. I've narrowed my choice down to 2 irons. The Yamaha V-forged and the Titleist VG3. First choice is Yamaha. Tomorrow I'll have a meeting with my pro and we'll discuss my specs. I'll give them to Gochin and will then place an order. Yeha.

But I have tot take into account which irons are best suitable to fit for a Dutch guy. Could be that the VG3 are easier to fit than the Yamaha's. What I've concluded, is that the Yamaha irons are more balanced. My hcp is currently 26 and still improving. By the end of this year I am aiming at 22 (and maybe 20...). I want forged irons (Endo) but playable for 20 HCP. And I think the Yama's will do the trick.