miura Passing Point 9003

[jpsfreak]

Hi all,

Just want to have feedbacks if anyone tried Miura Passing Point pp 9003 with graphite shafts?

My PP 9003 now is shafted with KBS steel tour and works well.Want to have an experience with premium graphite like crazy or quadra. Which model that suits PP 9003? installed with matrix program 95 but not to happy with it and switched it my onoff plus.

Any feedbacks for miura with graphite would be appreciated.

regards,

DW

[supo]

think u might struggle with that question

[golfnologist]

Hi all,

Just want to have feedbacks if anyone tried Miura Passing Point pp 9003 with graphite shafts?

My PP 9003 now is shafted with KBS steel tour and works well.Want to have an experience with premium graphite like crazy or quadra. Which model that suits PP 9003? installed with matrix program 95 but not to happy with it and switched it my onoff plus.

Any feedbacks for miura with graphite would be appreciated.

regards,

DW

Hi, i am also considering to get of set of miura giken PP-9003. Since you are gaming it for a while, care to share your experience with the 9003? How's the forgiveness/distance/control/softness compared to other forged irons.

Thanks.

[Ara selai]

@jpsfreak: I have to agree with Supo. Which shaft is going to depend on your swing and how you want it to work with the club head. I've got a buddy who absolutely swears by graphite, but he would be the first to tell you to try to optimize shaft weight, stiffness, and balance to your swing.

@golfnologist: I reviewed the PP9003s a while back. In my opinion, there are definitely many better cavity backs out there. Try Epon 701s or Yamahas if you want a lot of forgiveness and really easy-to-use clubs. On the other hand, if you're looking for as little cavity as possible, consider Miura CB-2006s, which are great, great clubs. Go here (miura giken website) and click on "concept of head" and "another angle".

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.miuragiken.com/&ei=0aG7TrPpCoLrrQeBlsjABg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmiura%2Bgiken%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd

At the same website, you get this for the PP9003:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.miuragiken.com/&ei=0aG7TrPpCoLrrQeBlsjABg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmiura%2Bgiken%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd

[golfnologist]

@jpsfreak: I have to agree with Supo. Which shaft is going to depend on your swing and how you want it to work with the club head. I've got a buddy who absolutely swears by graphite, but he would be the first to tell you to try to optimize shaft weight, stiffness, and balance to your swing.

@golfnologist: I reviewed the PP9003s a while back. In my opinion, there are definitely many better cavity backs out there. Try Epon 701s or Yamahas if you want a lot of forgiveness and really easy-to-use clubs. On the other hand, if you're looking for as little cavity as possible, consider Miura CB-2006s, which are great, great clubs. Go here (miura giken website) and click on "concept of head" and "another angle".

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.miuragiken.com/&ei=0aG7TrPpCoLrrQeBlsjABg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmiura%2Bgiken%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd

At the same website, you get this for the PP9003:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.miuragiken.com/&ei=0aG7TrPpCoLrrQeBlsjABg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmiura%2Bgiken%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd

Hi Ara, can you be more specific about others being better than the PP-9003. I would like to know which area of the PP-9003 is inferior. An example of info I need is like what Spoon has provided me infos on the characteristics of the NSPRO modus 3 shaft. He is very specific on how the modus 3 performs and it helps me alot. Thank you.

[Ara selai]

Whoa there, cowboy! It's definitely not "inferior"... it's made by Miura!

By "better", I meant that I've found there are many, many clubs that offer more forgiveness, longer flights, more control, and/or are softer than the PPs.

Have a look at this thread for more detail on the 9003s. It's quite dated, and I ought to do a revision based on several months of ho'ing demoing a big range of irons. anyway, I hope it's got some of what you're after.

Quick summary: If your primary criteria right now are forgiveness and softness (i.e., a classic Game Improvement club), go Epon 701 or 702 or 2012 Yamaha Z. If you're after a club that will help you learn to get better, try upgrading to a Miura or Miura Giken CB-series, Yamaha X-series, or the Epon 501/502.

As far as your criteria go...

Forgiveness: If you're thinking about the PP range, I assume this is very important. But consider that you'll sacrifice feedback ... and an important part of the learning curve. As a rule of thumb, the bigger the cavity, the more forgiveness. However, as far as the clubs that have been mentioned go, the Epon 702 or Yamaha D have forgiveness in spades. There really is no other choice, IMO. Daylight to next CB contenders (including PP 9003).

Length: This is a rubbish metric. Get a set of clubs you like, learn how far you hit them, and club up or down depending on how they're lofted. For instance, Yamahas tend to be very aggressively lofted: a Yammie 7i will have a loft - and flight - much more similar to my Miura 6i. Suggest you check the lofts if this is an issue for you. My only warning is that if you try to compare by club # only, you'll be very misled!

Control: Not sure what you mean, but I'd say the closer you get to a blade, the more control you get. Please explain what you're after. Do you mean ability to shape? That's not generally something CB players spend a lot of time trying to do. Or perhaps you mean something like how frequently you get pure shots; that is, how easy you perceive it is to "control" the club head into position to hit a straight shot. In practice, ability to square the clubface will be largely a function of your swing mechanics relative to your club+shaft weight, and is tough to rate in a head. It's something that comes with practice. Overall, I think this is the category you've listed where Miura might edge out Epon or Yamaha. But many others would disagree.

Softness: I prefer Miura's "cold butter" feel to Epon's "warm butter" feel. But if it's actually softness you're after, go Epon.

Feel: You don't mention it. Do you care? This is more important to me than softness. Miura, baby. Oh yeah.

Feedback: You don't mention it. Do you care? I do. A lot. Minimize the cavity as much as possible.

Later this weekend, I'll try to summarize my thoughts in a more coherent and quantitative, club-by-club manner.

[golfnologist]

Whoa there, cowboy! It's definitely not "inferior"... it's made by Miura!

By "better", I meant that I've found there are many, many clubs that offer more forgiveness, longer flights, more control, and/or are softer than the PPs.

Have a look at this thread for more detail on the 9003s. It's quite dated, and I ought to do a revision based on several months of ho'ing demoing a big range of irons. anyway, I hope it's got some of what you're after.

Quick summary: If your primary criteria right now are forgiveness and softness (i.e., a classic Game Improvement club), go Epon 701 or 702 or 2012 Yamaha Z. If you're after a club that will help you learn to get better, try upgrading to a Miura or Miura Giken CB-series, Yamaha X-series, or the Epon 501/502.

As far as your criteria go...

Forgiveness: If you're thinking about the PP range, I assume this is very important. But consider that you'll sacrifice feedback ... and an important part of the learning curve. As a rule of thumb, the bigger the cavity, the more forgiveness. However, as far as the clubs that have been mentioned go, the Epon 702 or Yamaha D have forgiveness in spades. There really is no other choice, IMO. Daylight to next CB contenders (including PP 9003).

Length: This is a rubbish metric. Get a set of clubs you like, learn how far you hit them, and club up or down depending on how they're lofted. For instance, Yamahas tend to be very aggressively lofted: a Yammie 7i will have a loft - and flight - much more similar to my Miura 6i. Suggest you check the lofts if this is an issue for you. My only warning is that if you try to compare by club # only, you'll be very misled!

Control: Not sure what you mean, but I'd say the closer you get to a blade, the more control you get. Please explain what you're after. Do you mean ability to shape? That's not generally something CB players spend a lot of time trying to do. Or perhaps you mean something like how frequently you get pure shots; that is, how easy you perceive it is to "control" the club head into position to hit a straight shot. In practice, ability to square the clubface will be largely a function of your swing mechanics relative to your club+shaft weight, and is tough to rate in a head. It's something that comes with practice. Overall, I think this is the category you've listed where Miura might edge out Epon or Yamaha. But many others would disagree.

Softness: I prefer Miura's "cold butter" feel to Epon's "warm butter" feel. But if it's actually softness you're after, go Epon.

Feel: You don't mention it. Do you care? This is more important to me than softness. Miura, baby. Oh yeah.

Feedback: You don't mention it. Do you care? I do. A lot. Minimize the cavity as much as possible.

Later this weekend, I'll try to summarize my thoughts in a more coherent and quantitative, club-by-club manner.

Thank you for your pretty detail explanation. What I am really looking for in my next set of irons is what you described as " how frequently you get pure shots; that is, how easy you perceive it is to "control" the club head into position to hit a straight shot." In short, how easy it is to hit the sweet spot of the club head. Looking at the club head design of PP-9003, it seems to have a wider club face compared to the epons or yamahas.

I thought that would give better forgiveness. In fact the shape of the PP-9003 looks very similar to the very popular Honma LB-280, which is famous for it's forgiveness.

[Ara selai]

I'd like to hear what jpsfreak has to say. He's much more knowledgeable than I am about the 9003. I only hit about 50-75 balls with it, with really disappointing results. My results may have been anomalous. To be honest, there were so many clubs that fit my swing better that I spent more time trialling the other ones than sorting out the 9003. (Of note, I also hit the CB-501 much more poorly than I'd hoped, and that was the one I had highest hopes for! Would love to give that one another whack!)

As far as "control" goes (now that you've clarified what you're after in that category), here's my 2 cents. I found it VERY difficult to get in a sweet spot groove with the 9003s. I was heeling, toeing, puring, then heeling and toeing again. Having tried a good many clubs since, I've found that that performance characteristic is in fact my general experience with almost all deeper cavity backs (Miura PP-9003, CB-3003, & CB-301; Fourteen TC-1000, 910, & 710; OnOff 510; Tourstage; etc.). You ought to figure out if the same is true for you, before committing to the PPs. The exception to the rule of deep cavities, in my case and for whatever reason, is Yamaha. I find their deep cavity models very easy to hit very consistently. As a rule, I think Endo forgings (in Yamahas and Epons) are just plain easier to "control", as we've defined it here. I've described the Epons before as 'effortless', and that really sounds like what your after. If you can get past the sound of the pocket cavity (I hate it), the 501s or 502s are probably exactly what you're looking for. You should also try a 2012 Yamaha X or Z when they come out in a couple of weeks. Compare those three and an Epon 702 to the PP-9003. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

The other way to go is to try a more minimal cavity. I've found that's what works best for me. They make you hunt down the sweet spot, and require a more disciplined, consistent swing than the ones above, but once you learn how to hit them consistently, they're brilliant. They're less forgiving, but have more feedback as a trade-off. Examples that I particularly like from the brands I've mentioned include Miura CB-2006 (which I play), Epon 301, and Yamaha V Tour. And of course, my all-time favorite club, the Miuraism SC-01 (does anyone have some of these they want to sell?).

Of course, once you're there, it's only a short step, as I've just found out, into the world of blades...and then it gets REALLY fun!

[golfnologist]

I'd like to hear what jpsfreak has to say. He's much more knowledgeable than I am about the 9003. I only hit about 50-75 balls with it, with really disappointing results. My results may have been anomalous. To be honest, there were so many clubs that fit my swing better that I spent more time trialling the other ones than sorting out the 9003. (Of note, I also hit the CB-501 much more poorly than I'd hoped, and that was the one I had highest hopes for! Would love to give that one another whack!)

As far as "control" goes (now that you've clarified what you're after in that category), here's my 2 cents. I found it VERY difficult to get in a sweet spot groove with the 9003s. I was heeling, toeing, puring, then heeling and toeing again. Having tried a good many clubs since, I've found that that performance characteristic is in fact my general experience with almost all deeper cavity backs (Miura PP-9003, CB-3003, & CB-301; Fourteen TC-1000, 910, & 710; OnOff 510; Tourstage; etc.). You ought to figure out if the same is true for you, before committing to the PPs. The exception to the rule of deep cavities, in my case and for whatever reason, is Yamaha. I find their deep cavity models very easy to hit very consistently. As a rule, I think Endo forgings (in Yamahas and Epons) are just plain easier to "control", as we've defined it here. I've described the Epons before as 'effortless', and that really sounds like what your after. If you can get past the sound of the pocket cavity (I hate it), the 501s or 502s are probably exactly what you're looking for. You should also try a 2012 Yamaha X or Z when they come out in a couple of weeks. Compare those three and an Epon 702 to the PP-9003. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

The other way to go is to try a more minimal cavity. I've found that's what works best for me. They make you hunt down the sweet spot, and require a more disciplined, consistent swing than the ones above, but once you learn how to hit them consistently, they're brilliant. They're less forgiving, but have more feedback as a trade-off. Examples that I particularly like from the brands I've mentioned include Miura CB-2006 (which I play), Epon 301, and Yamaha V Tour. And of course, my all-time favorite club, the Miuraism SC-01 (does anyone have some of these they want to sell?).

Of course, once you're there, it's only a short step, as I've just found out, into the world of blades...and then it gets REALLY fun!

Thank you Ara for your feedback base on your experience with the PP-9003 for about 75 balls. I really hope those who are gaming the PP-9003 for some time to share their experience as well.

[Ara selai]

Not much to go on, I know. good luck with your search!

[golfrules]

I'm gaming with a set of pp9003 with fubuki graphite shafts. Prior to getting the miura, I tried several heads, including yamaha, epon 702/502/302, etc. As many here have stated, feel is a very subjective matter. I personally find the onoff and miura softer than the other irons I tried. No offense to the epon lovers, but I simply did not like the feel of the epons and they felt a little clickish to me.

Also tried different shafts including aerotech, tour ad, graman, bassara, etc. I try to stick to graphite shafts (except for wedges) because of an old wrist injury. The one shaft that I wanted to try but didn't was the matrix program 95. Went with the fubuki because it felt smooth, but with a little bit of kick.

In my opinion, the shaft probably makes more difference than the head (assuming they are similar heads). So, it's better to go with a set of heads that you like. After all, golf is very much a mental game ;)

Edited November 11, 2011 by golfrules

[golfnologist]

I'm gaming with a set of pp9003 with fubuki graphite shafts. Prior to getting the miura, I tried several heads, including yamaha, epon 702/502/302, etc. As many here have stated, feel is a very subjective matter. I personally find the onoff and miura softer than the other irons I tried. No offense to the epon lovers, but I simply did not like the feel of the epons and they felt a little clickish to me.

Also tried different shafts including aerotech, tour ad, graman, bassara, etc. I try to stick to graphite shafts (except for wedges) because of an old wrist injury. The one shaft that I wanted to try but didn't was the matrix program 95. Went with the fubuki because it felt smooth, but with a little bit of kick.

In my opinion, the shaft probably makes more difference than the head (assuming they are similar heads). So, it's better to go with a set of heads that you like. After all, golf is very much a mental game ;)

Thank you for your valuable feedback as a user of PP-9003. Agree with you that feel is a very personal thing, also one needs more time playing with a particular model to have a better opinion of it. Since you have been gaming it, you are in a better position to share how the PP-9003 plays. Although there are many comments here that epon/on-off/yamaha is better than miura on forgiveness, I myself tried epon and on-off before, but like you find them clickish. Yamaha was quite similar to miura if not softer. Golfrules, since you have got the right shaft fitted, how does it play for you in terms of distance/forgiveness/ etc. than other heads you have played before? Appreciate your valuable feedback.

[golfrules]

Thank you for your valuable feedback as a user of PP-9003. Agree with you that feel is a very personal thing, also one needs more time playing with a particular model to have a better opinion of it. Since you have been gaming it, you are in a better position to share how the PP-9003 plays. Although there are many comments here that epon/on-off/yamaha is better than miura on forgiveness, I myself tried epon and on-off before, but like you find them clickish. Yamaha was quite similar to miura if not softer. Golfrules, since you have got the right shaft fitted, how does it play for you in terms of distance/forgiveness/ etc. than other heads you have played before? Appreciate your valuable feedback.

I was previously using the mizuno jpx e500 shafted with aerotech. So, in terms of forgiveness, the jpx e500 is certainly more forgiving than the pp 9003. In terms of feel, I find the miura to feel a little softer/"musher" compared to the jpx, but that could also be partly due to the shaft.

Distance is probably slightly shorter (about 5 yards) than the jpx e500, but my fitter told me that the fubuki needs to be 'worn in'. Also, I believe that the loft on the jpx is about 1 degree stronger than the pp 9003, so that might have something to do with it. So far, I've only had a couple of short range sessions and one round with the pp 9003, so I don't yet have a lot of experience with it. Happy to share my views as I play more with it.

Yamaha is pretty good, but I prefer PRGR. I actually quite like the prgr 501 and 500, which are both pretty old models. I've also been told that the TR500 is pretty awesome, but haven't had a chance to try it.

[golfnologist]

I was previously using the mizuno jpx e500 shafted with aerotech. So, in terms of forgiveness, the jpx e500 is certainly more forgiving than the pp 9003. In terms of feel, I find the miura to feel a little softer/"musher" compared to the jpx, but that could also be partly due to the shaft.

Distance is probably slightly shorter (about 5 yards) than the jpx e500, but my fitter told me that the fubuki needs to be 'worn in'. Also, I believe that the loft on the jpx is about 1 degree stronger than the pp 9003, so that might have something to do with it. So far, I've only had a couple of short range sessions and one round with the pp 9003, so I don't yet have a lot of experience with it. Happy to share my views as I play more with it.

Yamaha is pretty good, but I prefer PRGR. I actually quite like the prgr 501 and 500, which are both pretty old models. I've also been told that the TR500 is pretty awesome, but haven't had a chance to try it.

Thanks. Hope to hear more of your reviews as you play more games with it. Happy golfing!

[jpsfreak]

Thank you for your valuable feedback as a user of PP-9003. Agree with you that feel is a very personal thing, also one needs more time playing with a particular model to have a better opinion of it. Since you have been gaming it, you are in a better position to share how the PP-9003 plays. Although there are many comments here that epon/on-off/yamaha is better than miura on forgiveness, I myself tried epon and on-off before, but like you find them clickish. Yamaha was quite similar to miura if not softer. Golfrules, since you have got the right shaft fitted, how does it play for you in terms of distance/forgiveness/ etc. than other heads you have played before? Appreciate your valuable feedback.

Hi all, sorry just came back.

I agree with golfrules that feel is personal thing. I happened game it my pp 9003 with modus 3 and went well till i swithced back in w kbs tour to match my miura sb01.that did not go well either imo and felt distance wise was lesser. Now am gaming with my old eagle shaft and so far doing well with the distance. Compare to onoff (2009 onoff plus), Onoff feel softer and i think is due to extra meet in the middle cav.but pp9003 is more solid just like othere miuras and now depending on the user which they want to take. I personally still wants to keep onoff on my back up irons clubs and thinking to excahne the new one.

ForgivenesS yes you still get it eventhough just a hair diff with other like onoff or golds.

Feel crisper compare to steel kbs at the moment. agree also that you need to play it few times t hen you can really compare ( switch from kbs to eagle only two times in the range).

distance no problem.

Thanks