Ara selai Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 After a very erratic day last weekend with my usually trusty Epon AF-101 driver, I've decided I want to change the shaft out, and was hoping you experts and afficianados out there can help me refine my choices. Loft: 10.5* Current shaft: stock Mach Line 3042 R flex Distance/swing speed: 245-250 yards @ swing speed a little less than 100 mph. Aspire to gain about 10 yards. Handicap: mid 20s (a decent short game and consistency off the tee would bring that happily below 20). Issue/problem: A while back, I noted I was considering changing the shaft, as I was having dispersion issues that I wanted to correct, perhaps with a stiffer shaft. However, the dispersion improved when I slowed down my swing to avoid whippiness (see below). Recently, though, it's returned...in spades. So I'm back to thinking about a stiffer flex and a premium shaft. Swing style: Even tempo, aspiring to 3:1 backswing:foreswing; modulated rhythm; lead with hips; tend to fade to right, but can hit wicked duck hooks unexpectedly. Steep descent angle; upright stance and club lie. A note: Since buying the club, I've greatly improved its accuracy by slowing down my swing speed very noticeably, which has allowed me to square the club face more consistently. Fortunately, the slower swing speed has resulted in only small losses in distance. However, previous advice on the forum was to go for a stiffer flex, which I suspect would let me bring the swing speed back up to 100+ without great detriment. So now I'm trying to resurrect the advice I was given previously, and bring together info from other posts as well. I'd really appreciate commentary on what to expect in each shaft (trajectory, spin, anti-left, straight, anti-right, etc). I like a med-low trajectory with decent carry. Don't need a high bomber, unless there's an advantage to that trajectory that I haven't appreciated. Previous posters have suggested a 65g shaft in one of the following models: Quadra Fire Express Graphite Design 9003 Crazy 80 Noir Diamana Stinger Diamana Il'ima Is any of these particularly well suited for my swing, and is there a price-to-performance 'tipping point'? Happy to consider other options. Thanks for any advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamnguy1 Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Quadra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleUK Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I recently bought the Epon 102 with Quadra Firexpress.... Wow... You need one!! At first I didn't see much difference, but after a game or 2 I decided to swing.... I think there's a misconception ( was for me) that the expensive shafts will knock the ball in to orbit!!, but in reality I only gained a few yards(well about 10/15) BUT what you get is consistency and Feed back, so much so that you gain confidence, and with that comes better Golf! The only problem I have is getting the club back from fellow playing members! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblake Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 consider the Nunchuk, awesome shaft and it does do what you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Wow 3042 Regular! That is way too soft for you. That is considered by Epon as a light seniors shaft and way too soft and will result in severe dispersion issues. Based on your swing speed and playing level, you're not looking at the right shafts. The shafts you want are too heavy and too stiff... some close to double the weight of the 3042. At your distances and handicap they will also not provide the type of ease of use you need, shafts like the 9003, Stinger, 80t Crazy's are all very much suited for the better player who makes very good impact to maximize smash factor. I'm not sure who would have recommended you those 3 based on your speed. Right now you need a shaft that is firmer, tighter, slightly heavier, all to increase control and stability and at the same time gain overall distance, a shaft that will square up for you and give you the right amount of launch and spin. A shaft that will allow you to go after the ball and swing freely without worrying about timing or (whippiness as you said). That said, one of Crazy's 46t shafts or Fire Express, or even the ilima are a much better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 @ gocchin. Thank you for that assessment. Previous advice was gathered from earlier posts. Glad to hear the voice of reason, as I definitely don't want/need too much shaft!! Will certainly keep my expectations with respect to my selection realistic. To that end, should I consider any of the less 'spec' Graphite Design shafts in addition to the three models you mentioned? @other posters. Thanks for your advice,too. Would be very interested in hearing specific feedback re: shafts you've tried and why you liked them or not. For instance, what should I expect with the Nunchuk? It's the one that's got three pieces melded together, right? Also, what other models have worked well for you (mores than just brands)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Another question, Gocchin. What weight/flex do you think I should be looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Another question, Gocchin. What weight/flex do you think I should be looking at? Because there is no standards for flex among manufacturers it really depends on which brand/model you go with. For your swing speed and distance a shaft in the mid 60 gram range between SR and S (depending on model) sounds about right to give a balance of control and distance. It 100mph and under I would only move up to the 70+ gram range if you are an aggressive hitter and need stability and want to keep the ball down. Other Tour AD shafts to consider are the DI-6 and DJ-6 in Stiff (you could even play SR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblake Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) Would be very interested in hearing specific feedback re: shafts you've tried and why you liked them or not. I use the Nunchuk, soon to be two, It does exactly what it says, no need for me to repeat what they claim. I also have met the inventor and had it explained in great detail. I then hit a demo with matching head to my own and i was hooked, and I am not a fast swinger or long hitter, at the moment my driver speed is only 95mph, I am getting old. For instance, what should I expect with the Nunchuk? what gocchin said... Right now you need a shaft that is firmer, tighter, slightly heavier, all to increase control and stability and at the same time gain overall distance, a shaft that will square up for you and give you the right amount of launch and spin. The distinctive thing about the 'chuk is that it does not need to 'square up for you' because it did not get out of 'square', and whilst it is heaver you will not feel that due to the counterweighting. Others will claim that they do not feel the 'kick' with this shaft and that is correct, but that is not a bad thing. It's the one that's got three pieces melded together, right? correct, there are three sections because each one is wound in different directions. for example the bottom section is wound in a way that avoids twist and droop. You really must just try it. p.s. I just remembered who you are :-) Lets catch up when I get there in Dec and you can have a crack at mine. Edited September 20, 2011 by theblake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 @ theblake. That would be great, although I'm not sure I can wait until December, if my last round was any indication! To that end, I tried the Tour AD in DI6 S and DJ7 S tonight, set up with the new Tourstage driver. I preferred the 6, but neither of them was an obvious choice. Both were definitely better than the stock shaft, but the most effortless shaft I tried in terms of trajectory, distance, and flight was the Bridgestone/GD proprietary 10-03 design. Really liked that, but it only comes pre-assembled with the head. Not sure where that leaves me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 @ theblake. That would be great, although I'm not sure I can wait until December, if my last round was any indication! To that end, I tried the Tour AD in DI6 S and DJ7 S tonight, set up with the new Tourstage driver. I preferred the 6, but neither of them was an obvious choice. Both were definitely better than the stock shaft, but the most effortless shaft I tried in terms of trajectory, distance, and flight was the Bridgestone/GD proprietary 10-03 design. Really liked that, but it only comes pre-assembled with the head. Not sure where that leaves me.... The Bridgestone/GD 10-03 is very much like a DJ-6 but softer from what I'm told. What I'm thinking now for you is an SR flex. As far as carry and your trajectory goes with the BS/GD 10-3 would you like higher or lower? More carry or more roll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I like a low, rising flight with somewhat more emphasis on carry. [That said, I've noted my buddies who hit it long have a serious amount of roll, even on higher shots.] I find the trajectory on my Royal Collection BBD's VS Tour 5W ideal, and would like to match that with a bit more distance. It's shafted with a 41.75" Flex 62S Graphite Design/RC stock shaft. That said, at the end of the day, I want accuracy and fairways with my driver, even if I sacrifice a bit of 'playability' or distance. I also like a healthy dose of feedback - I wasn't sure where several of my drives went tonight, and that's no good to learn what I'm doing wrong in terms of my swing mechanics. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Another question: based on theblake's recommendation, I spent some time tonight reading some other forums, and am newly curious about the Nunchuk, which represents a completely different concept in shafts. Has anyone else tried one, who cares to comment on its characteristics and performance relative to more typical drivers? I'm intrigued by the counter-weighted concept in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yet another question, if there's a physicist in the forum: does my preferred trajectory (low initial trajectory, rising, with steeper drop-off than take-off) occur as follows? (1) The initial velocity of the ball at take-off exceeds the lift effects of the spin, resulting in low, linear ascent. (2) As the ball begins to decelerate, the spin 'catches up' to the velocity and lift forces begin to affect the ball, resulting in a rising mid-flight. (3) During terminal deceleration, the ball follows its preferred gravitational (descending) arc? If so, it seems to me that there ought to be a way to determine the optimum ratio of initial-ball-speed-to-spin to try to get this flight more often, like I see in my 5W. Or maybe just the shaft/head combo likely to produce closest proximity to that ratio. No? Is there a better place to post this quesry for a bit of discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 @ theblake. what the heck are Maltby clubs? Can you post pics somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yet another question, if there's a physicist in the forum: does my preferred trajectory (low initial trajectory, rising, with steeper drop-off than take-off) occur as follows? (1) The initial velocity of the ball at take-off exceeds the lift effects of the spin, resulting in low, linear ascent. (2) As the ball begins to decelerate, the spin 'catches up' to the velocity and lift forces begin to affect the ball, resulting in a rising mid-flight. (3) During terminal deceleration, the ball follows its preferred gravitational (descending) arc? If so, it seems to me that there ought to be a way to determine the optimum ratio of initial-ball-speed-to-spin to try to get this flight more often, like I see in my 5W. Or maybe just the shaft/head combo likely to produce closest proximity to that ratio. No? Is there a better place to post this quesry for a bit of discussion? I think you are over analyzing. It simply sounds like too much back spin from a shaft that does not fit you, too soft. Backspin causing the shot to balloon, then drop off quickly. What you are talking about with the optimum ratio of ball speed is simply called smash factor. Smash factor tells us how good a players impact is ie a glancing blow will cause poor smash factor and bad balls speeds and lots of spin. A high smash factor means more pure contact resulting in optimal ball speeds and less spin. Smash factor is calculated by dividing ball speed over swing speed with a target smash factor of 1.5, in other words if you swing 100mph you want to create 150mph of ball speed at impact. Poor smash factor is usually the result of a players wing but a shaft can certainly contribute especially if it does not suit you, it can unload too slowly leaving the face open and that glancing blow causing the dispersion problems you have or it can unload too quickly if you release too early. This is why getting the right shaft that squares up consistently or "stays square--- must investigate the nunchuck as I've never heard of it till now". is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 My smash factor is around 1.4, up to 1.45 on good shots, and 1.25 to 1.35 on bad ones. I thought I might be over-analyzing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 1.45 is VERY good and near tour level. But if you range from 1.25 to 1.45 that is a very big range and shows the inconsistency of either your swing or shaft or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer19 Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Definitely over-analyzing on the golf gear and swing. If I start thinking like that I would never be able to play the game. When I stand on the tee box, my mind is blank and just rely on my muscle memory to take over the swing. Get fitted for some basic gear and just grip it and rip it. Don't make golf into such a complicated game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 As you can imagine, I don't see 1.45 very often! 1.38 or so about usual on good shots. And yes, the inconsistency kills me.... @duffer. Yep. I tend to think about these sort of things when I'm stuck in JKT traffic for an hour, not at address. When I'm playing, I'm just trying to be the ball, in the immortal words of Ty Webb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer19 Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 My smash factor is around 1.4, up to 1.45 on good shots, and 1.25 to 1.35 on bad ones. I thought I might be over-analyzing! What"s this smash factor and how it relates to one's game? Been playing this game for 35 years but still don't know the term. How does one measure smash factor when on the course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 What"s this smash factor and how it relates to one's game? Been playing this game for 35 years but still don't know the term. How does one measure smash factor when on the course? R see my post #16 in this thread... (^_~) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Suffice it to say I'm NOT tour level! Smash factor is measured on a swing monitor. I'll bet the one that measured me was doctored to give 'improved' results, like the 'improved' distance one gets with a Yamaha loft (and they're by no means the only culprit)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblake Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 My smash factor is around 1.4, up to 1.45 on good shots, and 1.25 to 1.35 on bad ones. Thats interesting, my smash factor measured on the Trackman is 1.49 every time. If i really slap one badly its 1.48, apparently thats special but I dont really know. Not saying that to make me sound good but there has got to be a really good reason why my SF is always the same and yours varies so wildly. reading your other posts it does sound to me like you are getting too much spin, and everything else points me to the shaft i use :-) Lets put that in a proper context, the Nunchuk costs $250. Now the entire cost of my set of irons cost less than that brand new(not including the clubfitting and assembly), and that would be why you never heard of them. (what am I doing here?) And i have never been sucked in by glossy big brand marketing. There is only one reason I spent so much money on a shaft and (obviously the driver head, albeit 2nd hand though) and thats because I tried it and had to have it. I never would have spent $50 on a new shaft otherwise. The benefits of the Nunchuk are huge, and its so different, so its gotta be worth trying out. Just a bit hard for you where you are :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara selai Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Based on input, and what I can actually find locally to test, here's my revised list of shafts: GD Tour AD DI6, DJ6 MATRIX Ozik F6m2 Attas T2 Diamana kai'li, ahina, il'ima Fubuki ...and the dark horse Nunchuks in December Any further thoughts (besides the over-analysis angle)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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