S-Yard t.388 vs Epon Zero (which to choose)

[jaygolf]

The OP is a beast, He plays a J340! he could handle the Zero, like stew, and maybe yourself as it really caters to a select few, while the 388 would not only be playable by you guys but also the almost average player.

I can't say if it's worth the hype Jay because right now for me so many other drivers rival the 388. Yamaha vs Zero in Forgiveness goes to the Yammy while feel goes to Zero but both are nowhere near as forgiving as the 388. Also I would say the 388 actually feels better than the Yamaha and has a bit less spin.

If you look closely half of the 388's in the B/S/T were customers who bought another T388 at a different loft which is usually a good sign.

Looking at our Zero sales, very few have kept it to our knowledge.

Looking at our Zero testing on the trackman it ranked last against the Jbeam 425 & Ryoma V-Spec that's not my swing that's Tatsuro and 2 other true scratch players.

It's really weird what gains traction sometimes on the boards. I like the 388 as much as any but of Mr. Kobayashi's designs the older SYD GT driver 2011/2012 I like better and that would have been Epon's next generation driver, The GT-S forged irons of the same year is the Epon AF302 with a lower trajectory and updated sole grind, those had a good chance at becoming the new 303 before he left.

That said I do have what appears to be my unbeatable combo (for now) The George Spirits 450 w/Crazy CB-46 Mofo in the bag that I'm completely destroying, I'm in a DAT55 phase right now and trying to find a shaft/loft combo that gives me 388 type roll with GS450 carry and forgiveness.

"It's really weird what gains traction sometimes on the boards." Lol, come on Chris, give yourself some credit. :)

[604_skyline]

Yes I know who you are Mr. A? Long time :) Yup I know what sorta stuff you like, stuff many of us mortals don't dare. I do think Zero would be right up your ally. I also think the S-Yard would be as well & Jbeam 425 Tour...lol

I'd say the Jbeam for compact head mute feel and low spin + traj. Tatsuro is stuck on this head and he has hit almost everything, more models than anyone I know. The Zero is purely for feel & setup but then you should also look at the TS909 or the Yamaha Tour and 388 for the same.

Chris,

yeah its me, I have some tourstage 909 mb irons that have been shipped and are on there way to me, to go with my flat black crazy toyoshima's that I got from Tario in december.

It just seems in the last year or two the abundance of drivers out there is just mind boggling, good drivers I mean, I find it hard to wrap your head around, especially with some of the smaller boutique companies as well

[coops1967]

Chris,

thanks for the added info, I am not looking for distance in a driver, I want something that suits my eye, and will go and perform when and where I want and need it to.

as someone who has always played a shorter than average driver 44.5 to 44.75 inches with a heavier shaft high 70 so mid 80, with a hard power fade(think medium trajectory with a movement of 5 yards or so to the right), i want something anti-left that.

I know i've been banging on about the Mizuno 611... but really.

If you want excellent looks and performance (and Endo forged) get the 611.

Want anti-left - then get the 611 with the ability to order a far more realistic (than the absurd 60 degree ones) lie angle of 56 1/2 dgerees.

Want more anti-left and you like heavier shorter shafted setups... get the 611 with Nunchuk shaft at 44" made up length.

Done.

Money spent, now you can get on and enjoy your driving on the golf course.

[Vegaman]

I know i've been banging on about the Mizuno 611... but really.

If you want excellent looks and performance (and Endo forged) get the 611.

Want anti-left - then get the 611 with the ability to order a far more realistic (than the absurd 60 degree ones) lie angle of 56 1/2 dgerees.

Want more anti-left and you like heavier shorter shafted setups... get the 611 with Nunchuk shaft at 44" made up length.

Done.

Money spent, now you can get on and enjoy your driving on the golf course.

With the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have to say I whoelheartedly agree witht this post. I'm also a 611 fan. Shape, quality (endo forged), feel, spin, trajectory, roll out. It's all there. I guess it's just the fact people are a bit wary of playing a Mizuno driver, as opposed to a Mizuno iron..

[ant]

problem with Mizuno craft drivers is that there is very little info on them. i was looking at craft like 2 gens back but couldnt find any info or feedback on them so you guys posting here about how stocked you are and giving some details on flight and shape really helps, i'm seriously considering 611 now based on that info and the fact that it can be ordered flatter (i think its idiotic that they make 45+ long drivers with a lie angle of a standard 5 iron and practically no safe options except for pray and torch ~1k head to bend it flatter). mizuno non-jdm drivers dont seem like they really help the brand rep. last time i tried one which was part of bag hire it was a hooking machine with loads of spin and i hated it. so i guess thats why most people would be wary of them kinda like yeah great irons but drivers not so good stigma.

With the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have to say I whoelheartedly agree witht this post. I'm also a 611 fan. Shape, quality (endo forged), feel, spin, trajectory, roll out. It's all there. I guess it's just the fact people are a bit wary of playing a Mizuno driver, as opposed to a Mizuno iron..

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Every craft driver has felt better than most over the years, they always setup fairly close to classic JDM style and I'm most curious about spin and roll out.

We will bring in a a couple 611's to test out asap, It's worth doing a head to head vs the 388 for.

[charge]

Ridiculously DEEP! 611 has an amazing shape:

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

That thing is crazy looking.

[DaleUK]

Ridiculously DEEP! 611 has an amazing shape:

Like the look of that baby!!

[wmclarenf1]

Goodness! That craft is seriously deep! First time I am seeing it and it looks pretty darn good!

[coops1967]

Goodness! That craft is seriously deep! First time I am seeing it and it looks pretty darn good!

It is beautiful - and fantastically 'modest'.... no bling, graphics, adjustable b@llocks or silly 'tour' stamping.

Lovely gloss black pear shaped head. Black gloss shaft is standard (with probably the least amount of writing/graphics i've ever seen on a OEM shaft), black GP grip and a lovely black headcover.

Stealth and feels no need to shout.

I wish i'd gone ahead and had the Nunchuk resprayed black before I had it fitted.....

Here it is again.... for deepness and useable face area here's my pic comparing it to a Yonex 380 and an Adams 9015d (460cc)... almost as deep as the 9015d (which is a deep face 460cc driver).

611 is definitely not hook prone - especially at flatter lie ( i can hook the 9015d with it's open face on a bad swing...)

[Calvin]

Every craft driver has felt better than most over the years, they always setup fairly close to classic JDM style and I'm most curious about spin and roll out.

We will bring in a a couple 611's to test out asap, It's worth doing a head to head vs the 388 for.

Can't wait to see this! Hope you don't mind adding the 435ii to this battle. Thanks!

[ant]

looking forward to that! if you gonna be bringing trackman for the numbers it would be really helpful if you can post complete printouts with all the numbers afterwards at least for xerobound as that should help to understand what each head really does.

Every craft driver has felt better than most over the years, they always setup fairly close to classic JDM style and I'm most curious about spin and roll out.

We will bring in a a couple 611's to test out asap, It's worth doing a head to head vs the 388 for.

Edited March 25, 2013 by ant

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I actually found some of the info from that session comparing the Zero to the Jbeam. Keep in mind both shafts are different, I will say that the 787 is known for dispersion over distance.

[Ian-500]

Just about make out jBEAM total 251.2 and Zero total 240.3.......I think.

[RLL33]

If you look closely half of the 388's in the B/S/T were customers who bought another T388 at a different loft which is usually a good sign.

Yup, I have a second one on the way just to try a different flex in the shaft. And because I've been through enough drivers in my time to recognize one that rings the bell (FOR ME). Not to mention the yes answer to my inquiry on whether the t.388 is a limited edition...

[ant]

yeah, thats the stuff although numbers there are kinda funny a wee bit. 3 things there that to me work as distance differentiators: 1) ball speed is lower with zero; 2) launch is lower with zero; 3) spin is higher with zero and it also seem to translate more into sidespin with zero which again contributes to distance loss. good thing about zero seem to be shallower angle of descent which should translate into more roll. those are normalized numbers tho meaning they are derived from trackman trajectory model based on launch conditions instead of raw captured data. also 1.48 constant smash factor on every single shot looks wrong, even pga tour players have at least 0,01 variations. maybe its a software issue, like if club head speed read would make no sense against ball speed read it might revert to 1.48 and discard club head speed read replacing it with calculation instead so its not immediately clear (to me anyway) why zero produced lower ball speeds, was it due to lower club head speed or less than optimal impact location or the head itself. interesting stuff anyway.

I actually found some of the info from that session comparing the Zero to the Jbeam. Keep in mind both shafts are different, I will say that the 787 is known for dispersion over distance.

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

Those two pieces of data pretty much sum up what most who have honestly reviewed the Zero have inferred. Great when struck properly, not good at all on misses. Apparently even small misses. Seems to be consistent with its marketing.

[ant]

and how did you arrive at that conclusion ? trackman has no idea whether any given shot is a mis**t or not, it cant tell where contact is made on the face. i dont see a single great result there with zero in that comparison. there is one big ass slice with jbeam and couple of hooks with zero and seems that zero comes worse in both distance and dispersion in that comparison. so does that mean whoever tested it mis**t zero every single time ? based on the numbers zero launch and trajectory looks better and if ball speed didnt suffer (due to mis**t or some other factor) and not as much side spin has been inflicted then it would be longer carry and with more roll too. thats what it looks like to me.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I'm not into the numbers much either. I gamed a zero for about 3-4 rounds not long ago and hit some really good drives with it, It's such an awesome head just a little demanding for me to play. It's those pure shots that kept me coming back. It was very accurate when hit decent.

At the range a few other guys hit it, all really good players and each was surprised at how low spin and demanding it performed compared to their Taylormade drivers. It's as demanding as some of the TourStage limited "P" pear drivers that have come out in years past.

[hornyjuan]

yeah, thats the stuff although numbers there are kinda funny a wee bit. 3 things there that to me work as distance differentiators: 1) ball speed is lower with zero; 2) launch is lower with zero; 3) spin is higher with zero and it also seem to translate more into sidespin with zero which again contributes to distance loss. good thing about zero seem to be shallower angle of descent which should translate into more roll. those are normalized numbers tho meaning they are derived from trackman trajectory model based on launch conditions instead of raw captured data. also 1.48 constant smash factor on every single shot looks wrong, even pga tour players have at least 0,01 variations. maybe its a software issue, like if club head speed read would make no sense against ball speed read it might revert to 1.48 and discard club head speed read replacing it with calculation instead so its not immediately clear (to me anyway) why zero produced lower ball speeds, was it due to lower club head speed or less than optimal impact location or the head itself. interesting stuff anyway.

Do the math. Ball speed/Club speed. All at 1.48 (rounded of course). Very consistent.

[ant]

sounds like you didnt understand my post at all. here is distilled version for you. it looks like trackman doing the math from ball speed and disregarding club head speed measurement ie clubhead speed is calculated from max soft limit of 1.48 and ball speed ie club head speed read didnt make sense to software in relation to launch parameters so it got dropped and then assumed each shot was flushed with 1.48 so it cannot really tell what club head speed and smash factor really were on any of those hits and thats why smash factor is so consistent because its taken as constant. was it due to mis**ts or software problem or trackman setup i do not know bit it doesnt look right.

Do the math. Ball speed/Club speed. All at 1.48 (rounded of course). Very consistent.

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

and how did you arrive at that conclusion ? trackman has no idea whether any given shot is a mis**t or not, it cant tell where contact is made on the face. i dont see a single great result there with zero in that comparison. there is one big ass slice with jbeam and couple of hooks with zero and seems that zero comes worse in both distance and dispersion in that comparison. so does that mean whoever tested it mis**t zero every single time ? based on the numbers zero launch and trajectory looks better and if ball speed didnt suffer (due to mis**t or some other factor) and not as much side spin has been inflicted then it would be longer carry and with more roll too. thats what it looks like to me.

Idk but I looked at it on my phone and I swear I saw the ball speed numbers were all over the board on the zero. Looking at it now, obviously they're all the same. My fault. My premise was that highly variable ball speeds would be due to mis**ts.

[wmclarenf1]

and how did you arrive at that conclusion ? trackman has no idea whether any given shot is a mis**t or not, it cant tell where contact is made on the face. i dont see a single great result there with zero in that comparison. there is one big ass slice with jbeam and couple of hooks with zero and seems that zero comes worse in both distance and dispersion in that comparison. so does that mean whoever tested it mis**t zero every single time ? based on the numbers zero launch and trajectory looks better and if ball speed didnt suffer (due to mis**t or some other factor) and not as much side spin has been inflicted then it would be longer carry and with more roll too. thats what it looks like to me.

Was wondering the same thing.

[Calvin]

Feel and ball speed but I'm lusting over it because few makers use it due to the price. It's a Japanese process that isn't being used widely enough which is making it harder to get and much more expensive.

Compare to DT 65, which has the upper hand? or just a matter of feels?