Top of the line shaft chart - Weight, flex, torque, price. Good for a reference.

[Mjr. D]

I'm looking for the lightest, but lowest spin and launch shaft there is.

Torque is a tough thing to determine because you never know what how each company measures it and there are plenty of exaggerations. Obviously I still want something with low torque, though. Strange the new Crazy Tour is such high torque.

If possible I'd also like to stick with high modulus carbon fibre.

That's why this is tough!

This what I was up to last night... like a true sicko!

WEIGHT: Light - Heavy - 75g or less.

Crazy Boron - X - 70g - 2.9* - $595

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 65 - Pro X - 70g - 3.1* - $575

Crazy CB LS (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $875

Accra Tour Z ST Platinum - 72g - 3.1*

Crazy Black 50 - (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $625

Rombax Platinum 65 - X - 72.5g - 3.2* - $535

Attus 4U - X - 73g - 2.9* - $4791

Motore Speeder VC7.2 - X - 74g - 3.1 - $299

Matrix 7M3 - XX - 75g - 3.8*

Crazy TJ80 - (8.7) - 75g - 2.9* - $875

WEIGHT: Light - Heavy - 76g or more.

Crazy Black Tour 75 - XX - 76g - 4.4* - $655

BangVoo 787 - X - 77g - 3.2* - $875

Crazy CB 80LS W - (8.7) - 77g - 3.1* - $875

Diamana B70 - X - 77g - 2.9* - $349

Rombax Type X 75 - X - 77.5g - 2.9* -

Tour AD Z9003 - Type 7 - X - 78g - 2.8* - $449

Nippon Regio - X - 78.5 - 2.5* - $309

Diamana XX - 78g - 2.2 - $795

Basileus Pro Spec Z - XX - 79.5g - 2.7* - $879

Tour AD P9003X - X - 80g - 2.9* - $329

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 75 - Pro X - 80g - 2.6* - $575

Crazy Black Tour 85 - XX - 83g - 3.5* - $655

Motore Speeder VC8.2 - X - 84g - 2.7* - $299

Rombax Type X 85 - X - 85g - XX - 87g - 2.6* - $299

TORQUE: Low - High - 2.9 or lower

Diamana XX - 78g - 2.2 - $795

Nippon Regio - X - 78.5 - 2.5* - $309

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 75 - Pro X - 80g - 2.6* - $575

Rombax Type X 85 - X - 85g - XX - 87g - 2.6* - $299

Basileus Pro Spec Z - XX - 79.5g - 2.7* - $879

Motore Speeder VC8.2 - X - 84g - 2.7* - $299

Tour AD Z9003 - Type 7 - X - 78g - 2.8* - $449

Crazy Boron - X - 70g - 2.9* - $595

Crazy Black 50 - (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $625

Crazy CB LS (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $875

Attus 4U - X - 73g - 2.9* - $479

Crazy TJ80 - (8.7) - 75g - 2.9* - $875

Rombax Type X 75 - X - 77.5g - 2.9*

Diamana B70 - X - 77g - 2.9* - $349

Tour AD P9003X - X - 80g - 2.9* - $329

TORQUE: Low - High - 3.0 or Higher.

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 65 - Pro X - 70g - 3.1* - $575

Accra Tour Z ST Platinum - 72g - 3.1*

Motore Speeder VC7.2 - X - 74g - 3.1 - $299

Crazy CB 80LS W - (8.7) - 77g - 3.1* - $875

Rombax Platinum 65 - X - 72.5g - 3.2* - $535

BangVoo 787 - X - 77g - 3.2* - $875

Crazy Black Tour 85 - XX - 83g - 3.5* - $655

Matrix 7M3 - XX - 75g - 3.8*

Crazy Black Tour 75 - XX - 76g - 4.4* - $655

RED denotes high modulus carbon fibre.

[Vegaman]

I almost don't want to mention it because of the "controversy" about them, but the Superio Mugio in X is 78 grams and 2.0 degrees torque. It's also (allegedly) 80T..I have NOT hit this shaft myself, but I have testimonials from people that play it and also from the clubfitter I use that sells them, and they apparently play very stiff to flex. One low hcp guy I spoke to swings really hard and he went with S in the Mugio, he normally plays at least X in other shafts. The S weighs 75 grams and is 2.2 torque, the X 78/2.0. I haven't thought of Superio in a long while, but reading your first sentence the Mugio immediately came to mind, with that low low torque and stiffness.

[jimmieboi]

From the given choice... If u want super stiff low spin and never go left with a super soft feel. Also with super stable, no timing require....go get crazy TJ-80. I have one in 8.7 but I think it is more of a xxx or 8.9 for other shaft. Super stiff.

[ant]

its been kinda well established before that the higher the club head speed is the lower the torque should be however all the recent research shows that the torque has very little practical effect on ball flight unless you go with extreme high torque numbers and instead of swing speed the release characteristics of a golfer is where the torque would actually matter. the current conclusion so to speak is that torque is mainly a variable related to feel rather than shot performance tho the feel is part of shot performance because if you get a feel that goes with you performance gets better. so now they are actually starting to add torque to even very stiff designs which is actually extra work for them but they have found that even people who prefer very stiff shafts actually respond better to slightly higher torque. they can actually make graphite shafts with as little as 1 degree of torque but they dont because if you make a lightweight low torque shaft like that it would have very little if any feel to it both at transition and impact. if you just accustomed to or prefer low torque feel that one thing and thats fine but if you are thinking that lowest torque shaft would automatically give you the best performance you might wanna look into it some more and maybe test on launch monitor and perhaps re-evaluate that because thats not necessarily gonna be the case.

I'm looking for the lightest, but lowest spin and launch shaft there is.

Torque is a tough thing to determine because you never know what how each company measures it and there are plenty of exaggerations. Obviously I still want something with low torque, though. Strange the new Crazy Tour is such high torque.

If possible I'd also like to stick with high modulus carbon fibre.

That's why this is tough!

This what I was up to last night... like a true sicko!

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Mr. D,

Ant is correct about recent findings on torque. A lot of athlete golfers used to associate the soft feel of a Japanese shaft with too much torque when it most cases it was flex.

Lets do this a different way, What shaft works well for you? List maybe 3 shafts that have given you results better than the others.

Next list 3 shafts that gave you the total fits, did not work for your swing. There could be something in there to look at.

Light probably won't work for your swing. Have you gotten good results from light shafts? All I can say is I havent.

You will have to try to find the right shaft, we can analyze all day but in the end our swing is the great equalizer. Make a plan to eventually get a few of the shafts you want in for testing over the year.

There are too many shafts on that list. half or more probably only fit you on paper.

I would narrow it down to:

Tour AD Z9003

Muziik 787

Crazy Black Tour

CB80LSW

WBQ75 Fire Express

Attus 4U

Diamana X

[RLL33]

+1 to ant & Chris on this. Feel has way more to do with flex than torque. The place torque really matters is in a golfer's release, as in early or late, smooth or quick, how long he keeps the face square after impact.

[chiromikey]

+1 to ant & Chris on this. Feel has way more to do with flex than torque.

i think ant is stating it correctly when he wrote that (excepting ultra low tq shafts) recent research has found that feel is more related to torque than flex.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

i think ant is stating it correctly when he wrote that (excepting ultra low tq shafts) recent research has found that feel is more related to torque than flex.

2 of the same shaft in the same torque in a different flex do not feel the same.

Torque has an effect on feel but not more than flex imo.

Shaft Length

Butt/Mid/Tip Stiffness

CPM's

Head Weight

Shaft Design

has more to do with feel than torque. Torque is just one of the many variables.

[RLL33]

Mike,

I don't disagree. I was talking more about what Ant was saying with "...instead of swing speed the release characteristics of a golfer is where the torque would actually matter," which I was emphasizing.

Torque has to do with twisting, which has more to do with release than anything else, although as Chris says, it's one of many factors in feel, all of which are obviously combined in a golfer's swing. But flex is the most blatant.

[Mjr. D]

Mr. D,

Ant is correct about recent findings on torque. A lot of athlete golfers used to associate the soft feel of a Japanese shaft with too much torque when it most cases it was flex.

Lets do this a different way, What shaft works well for you? List maybe 3 shafts that have given you results better than the others.

Next list 3 shafts that gave you the total fits, did not work for your swing. There could be something in there to look at.

Light probably won't work for your swing. Have you gotten good results from light shafts? All I can say is I havent.

You will have to try to find the right shaft, we can analyze all day but in the end our swing is the great equalizer. Make a plan to eventually get a few of the shafts you want in for testing over the year.

There are too many shafts on that list. half or more probably only fit you on paper.

I would narrow it down to:

Tour AD Z9003

Muziik 787

Crazy Black Tour

CB80LSW

WBQ75 Fire Express

Attus 4U

Diamana X

Thanks Chris! Which of these will launch and spin lowest?

Since the Maxima is such an accurate driver and so long, I was hoping to put a fairly light shaft in it, to make it the ultimate accurate bomber.

Something 70-75g.

Of the 70-75g shafts, which is the lowest spinning and lowest launching?

[chiromikey]

i really didn't mean to imply torque has more to do with feel when comparing shafts from different flex ranges...but i think we're all on the same page at this point anyways..

[RIduffer]

Go with the WBQ...

[potuna]

The best driver shaft I've found for me is Fujikura Rombax Platinum, smooth, straight and long.

[Mjr. D]

WBQ is 80g.

I'd like to stay closer to 70g.

[RIduffer]

WBQ MAX 65 Pro X CPMs 2 lower than the 75 and weighs in at 70g.

I will hold to my WBQ MAX 65 in Pro X recommendation. You can tip it a tad if 282 cpm is insufficient. I would build it without tipping and leave a little long, grip down a tad and see if it works for you. If too loose tip it some, try again and repeat.

Would imagine you should be easily able to play a 44-44.5 inch driver, so start the build at 45.5" should give you up to an inch of tipping if needed. Maybe tip in 1/4" increments. Once correct butt cut to length and build...

[ant]

there are different aspects of shaft feel at different stages of golf swing and it all depends on each person specific swing and the fact that some people are more sensitive to some things than others. as far as feel concerned torque would come into play at basically 3 stages. start of transition, release and impact. i think the first two are pretty obvious in terms of different feel depending on how aggressive or smooth transition is and how late or early release is. at impact what happens is when the ball is hit the torque is applied to the shaft again but this time from impact force and most people know that but another interesting thing is that it contributes alot to shaft feel too. so you basically have these 3 things in terms of feel ie how hard it is (for your swing) to torque the shaft at transition then how fast and to what degree it rebounds forward and then how much it torques at impact (more past impact or as result of impact to be more accurate). so it definitely does contribute to feel but you have other feel things going from flex to kick point to weight and how all that comes together and what it feels like. Tom Wishon mentioned old Grafalloy design as example where what they did was a flexible shaft (not a noodle but a lively shaft that would be well below its flex letter) but with very low torque of about 2 and then people perceived/felt it as stronger flex than it actually was because it felt stable so essentially what they did in terms of feel is they have masked high flex with low torque. i think what they are doing now with all those high end shafts is they try to make a very stable quick rebound shafts without sacrificing feel and all those premium materials like boron, high modulus carbon, whatever else they have is to make a mix that would be super stable and true but lively with minimum distortion where it matters at impact.

[Calvin]

I'm looking for the lightest, but lowest spin and launch shaft there is.

Torque is a tough thing to determine because you never know what how each company measures it and there are plenty of exaggerations. Obviously I still want something with low torque, though. Strange the new Crazy Tour is such high torque.

If possible I'd also like to stick with high modulus carbon fibre.

That's why this is tough!

This what I was up to last night... like a true sicko!

WEIGHT: Light - Heavy - 75g or less.

Crazy Boron - X - 70g - 2.9* - $595

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 65 - Pro X - 70g - 3.1* - $575

Crazy CB LS (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $875

Accra Tour Z ST Platinum - 72g - 3.1*

Crazy Black 50 - (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $625

Rombax Platinum 65 - X - 72.5g - 3.2* - $535

Attus 4U - X - 73g - 2.9* - $4791

Motore Speeder VC7.2 - X - 74g - 3.1 - $299

Matrix 7M3 - XX - 75g - 3.8*

Crazy TJ80 - (8.7) - 75g - 2.9* - $875

WEIGHT: Light - Heavy - 76g or more.

Crazy Black Tour 75 - XX - 76g - 4.4* - $655

BangVoo 787 - X - 77g - 3.2* - $875

Crazy CB 80LS W - (8.7) - 77g - 3.1* - $875

Diamana B70 - X - 77g - 2.9* - $349

Rombax Type X 75 - X - 77.5g - 2.9* -

Tour AD Z9003 - Type 7 - X - 78g - 2.8* - $449

Nippon Regio - X - 78.5 - 2.5* - $309

Diamana XX - 78g - 2.2 - $795

Basileus Pro Spec Z - XX - 79.5g - 2.7* - $879

Tour AD P9003X - X - 80g - 2.9* - $329

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 75 - Pro X - 80g - 2.6* - $575

Crazy Black Tour 85 - XX - 83g - 3.5* - $655

Motore Speeder VC8.2 - X - 84g - 2.7* - $299

Rombax Type X 85 - X - 85g - XX - 87g - 2.6* - $299

TORQUE: Low - High - 2.9 or lower

Diamana XX - 78g - 2.2 - $795

Nippon Regio - X - 78.5 - 2.5* - $309

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 75 - Pro X - 80g - 2.6* - $575

Rombax Type X 85 - X - 85g - XX - 87g - 2.6* - $299

Basileus Pro Spec Z - XX - 79.5g - 2.7* - $879

Motore Speeder VC8.2 - X - 84g - 2.7* - $299

Tour AD Z9003 - Type 7 - X - 78g - 2.8* - $449

Crazy Boron - X - 70g - 2.9* - $595

Crazy Black 50 - (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $625

Crazy CB LS (8.7) - 72g - 2.9* - $875

Attus 4U - X - 73g - 2.9* - $479

Crazy TJ80 - (8.7) - 75g - 2.9* - $875

Rombax Type X 75 - X - 77.5g - 2.9*

Diamana B70 - X - 77g - 2.9* - $349

Tour AD P9003X - X - 80g - 2.9* - $329

TORQUE: Low - High - 3.0 or Higher.

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 65 - Pro X - 70g - 3.1* - $575

Accra Tour Z ST Platinum - 72g - 3.1*

Motore Speeder VC7.2 - X - 74g - 3.1 - $299

Crazy CB 80LS W - (8.7) - 77g - 3.1* - $875

Rombax Platinum 65 - X - 72.5g - 3.2* - $535

BangVoo 787 - X - 77g - 3.2* - $875

Crazy Black Tour 85 - XX - 83g - 3.5* - $655

Matrix 7M3 - XX - 75g - 3.8*

Crazy Black Tour 75 - XX - 76g - 4.4* - $655

RED denotes high modulus carbon fibre.

Since you're looking for light weight, low spin, low torque and high modulus carbon fiber golf shaft, I'm surprised you did not put PNOEZ on your list. The US-1 Tour V65 model for example, weight 66g, flex R, at 2.5 torque. Yes it's 2.5! Amazing right? For other Brand name, it has to be over 70g or even 80g or in X or XX flex to reach this figure. A club fitter told me that Pnoez's 50t performs like other's 70t. That is how good it is. Bad news is - PNOEZ is very hard to find item and the production is quite limited. You can find some PX-1 series which are very old models over the internet but not for US-1 or other more high end models. Maybe you can ask TSG whether they are able to get one for you.

[Mjr. D]

Hmmm, never heard of them, thanks for the tip!

Chris, Tario, know much about them?

[ant]

i dont see anything amazing about it for the reasons i have tried to explain in my previous posts. these things can made in variety of ways because modern materials and manufacturing allows it. i dont know anything about this shaft but it sounds alot like that grafalloy design mentioned above which had even less torque than that (~2 degrees of torque, made in the 1980s!!!). its true that the stiffer you make a shaft the less torque it would inherit (so to speak) due to stiff construction however because they can control the torque separately by additional layering fibers that oriented at specific angle so that they resist twisting to various degree. its just how each company/manufacturer choose to do that is a balancing act. any company can make a very low torque shaft, there is nothing magical about it. problem with low torque designs is they either gonna be low torque and high flex in which case things like launch angle, spin rate can go up and become problematic or erratic or they can make low torque low flex design thats gonna be literally a rebar. again, its a balancing act between feel and performance aspects. not bashing this shaft in any way but you gotta understand there is no magical technology shaft out there that combines the best of everything in every design aspect.

The US-1 Tour V65 model for example, weight 66g, flex R, at 2.5 torque. Yes it's 2.5! Amazing right? For other Brand name, it has to be over 70g or even 80g or in X or XX flex to reach this figure. A club fitter told me that Pnoez's 50t performs like other's 70t. That is how good it is.

Edited May 25, 2013 by ant

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Hmmm, never heard of them, thanks for the tip!

Chris, Tario, know much about them?

I think its cool your idea of a light shaft is 70g.

If you want a PNOEZ let us know, they are not hard to get at all. I wouldn't put it on the list you already have too many awesome shafts in contention and should narrow it down to only 2-3.

A WBQ may be good as RI said. A 787 X may be a little soft for you but tipped I think it would be alright. Don't over analyze this. Find the brand, specs, and opinions that you feel comfortable with and as RI said play it a tad long and tip down as needed.

[Calvin]

Hmmm, never heard of them, thanks for the tip!

Chris, Tario, know much about them?

By the way D, another good thing about PNOEZ is their product line which is simple and very straight forward. As far as I know, the top of line is Tour model Boron ( might close to $ 900, or even more) and then the US-1 that I mentioned. Also the previous model PX-1 5001/6001/7001/8001 and newer PX-1 4501/5501/6501/7501. Px-1 series are at much more moderate price range but still in light weight plus the Loooooooow torque. I'm still waiting for more reviews about their shafts

[supo]

Looking at those from.what ive played

Diamanan x or graph design stand out to me dont know.how u can go past the dia to be honest

[Mjr. D]

I think its cool your idea of a light shaft is 70g.

If you want a PNOEZ let us know, they are not hard to get at all. I wouldn't put it on the list you already have too many awesome shafts in contention and should narrow it down to only 2-3.

A WBQ may be good as RI said. A 787 X may be a little soft for you but tipped I think it would be alright. Don't over analyze this. Find the brand, specs, and opinions that you feel comfortable with and as RI said play it a tad long and tip down as needed.

Thanks! You're not big on Baselius shaft right?

I'm thinking I might just put a CB Black 50 8.7 in there. 70g, 2.8* and Crazy's most accurate shaft, apparently...

These PNOEZ shafts... meh... if they were that good would TSG carry them?

[Mjr. D]

The top three shafts I've ever used (that I can remember) are the Diamana X, GD P9003X and Crazy CB 50.

I don't know which of these is low spin/low launch but these are the ones I've narrowed it down to:

Crazy Black Tour 75 - XX - 76g/4.4* - not sure why it's only 46T considering it's their newest, premiere shaft...

Crazy Black CB 50 - 72g/2.9* (their ultimate control shaft - mid launch).

GD Z9003 - - 78g - 2.8*. Not high modulus carbon. Not sure if it's a low launch, low spin or what

Quadra Fire Express MAX WBQ 75 - 80g/2.6*. Not sure about the metal tip and kind of heavy...

CURIOUS ABOUT THESE:

Basileus Pro Spec Z - 79.5g/2.7*. Haven't heard anything though...

Fujikura - What's the story on the BangVoo 787, the Platinum, the Type X and the VT series of shafts made from space age material type s**t.

Nippon Pro Regio Formula shaft - haven't heard a word...

Diamana B - 77g/2.9*. Again, made from space aged s**t... No clue about it.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Mjr. Diarrhea

[Calvin]

Thanks! You're not big on Baselius shaft right?

I'm thinking I might just put a CB Black 50 8.7 in there. 70g, 2.8* and Crazy's most accurate shaft, apparently...

These PNOEZ shafts... meh... if they were that good would TSG carry them?

I thought you said ~ "LIGHTEST" !? then you can cross the PNOEZ out. Sometimes there's some policy involved for carrying items for both ends,so......! I go for what Ant said: " feel and performance" and which is very personal. Some 4.4 might just fit your game as well as a 2.8 do. Just look at the spec. of the T.388 and XV's stock shafts you'll know what I'm talking about.