wmclarenf1 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Great questions which are in my mind too jay. for me, Damascus looks cool but that's it for now and if its not more than that, I ain't inclined to drop coin for cosmetics. Just me of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akapur Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 The theory is that metals like Damascus will be very soft and thus produce a true roll when they make impact. That is why most of theses types of putters have little to no face milling. If you like a soft feeling putter then Damascus will give you that. Whether you can tell the difference is another story all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevopagolf Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Well, cosmetics has a lot to do with the price of a putter as do materials. Take a basic Scotty Newport and put a circle T stamp and Voila it's $1500! Ben Crenshaw putted pretty well with the most boring looking putter ever! That said, I really like my Piretti Weld Neck Tour Only.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 The theory is that metals like Damascus will be very soft and thus produce a true roll when they make impact. That is why most of theses types of putters have little to no face milling. If you like a soft feeling putter then Damascus will give you that. Whether you can tell the difference is another story all together. Thanks again for chiming in. So Damascus as a compound (not sure if I am using the right term) is inherently softer then GSS or JIS 303? For benefit of my ongoing education, how does this on its own affect roll? Does not the face mill affect that? Back to softness, if Damascus is indeed softer than GSS to begin with, then from what I read, a mild mill probably will be better and maybe even a sound slot. My ex-Kitada in SUS 303 (I think) with deep mill felt too soft for me already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Well, cosmetics has a lot to do with the price of a putter as do materials. Take a basic Scotty Newport and put a circle T stamp and Voila it's $1500! Ben Crenshaw putted pretty well with the most boring looking putter ever! That said, I really like my Piretti Weld Neck Tour Only.... Indeed! The circle T thing is insane! Power of marketing. Where I am coming from is I am very very much more performance centric. If it putts well and helps lower my putting average by even a stroke or half a stroke a round, I'll put her in play even if she is the ugliest looking thing on earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDM Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Thanks again for chiming in. So Damascus as a compound (not sure if I am using the right term) is inherently softer then GSS or JIS 303? For benefit of my ongoing education, how does this on its own affect roll? Does not the face mill affect that? Back to softness, if Damascus is indeed softer than GSS to begin with, then from what I read, a mild mill probably will be better and maybe even a sound slot. My ex-Kitada in SUS 303 (I think) with deep mill felt too soft for me already. That's why I asked, "Damascus" isn't inherently any actual "type" of steel, especially modern Damascus, generally any type of steel with that distinct pattern, produced in a certain way will be considered "Damascus", there are some who will acid etch that distinct pattern into steel and erroneously call it Damascus, there are modern smiths forging knives out of homemade Damascus ingots generally using 1086 carbon steel as a base material with a lesser content of lower carbon steel, this obviously isn't the makeup of the Damascus steel they are using in putters, That's really what I would like to know, what exactly is the makeup of the steel putter makers are using as Damascus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdGolf Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 From what I know, Damascus steel is harder and not softer. That's why it's a perfect material for sword, knives, etc. However in modern Damascus, it will depend where you source your Damascus from? Most putter makers don't like using Damascus material to make putters as it does cost some damage to their milling machine due to the hardness of this material. Also most people decided to go with mild or no milling on the face of the damascus putter is so that the pattern of the Damascus can be more clearly display but I've seem deep milling Damascus face putters - so what I'm trying to say is - YES, deep face milling on Damascus is possible. OOoh btw, I do own a Damascus putter by Lajosi and the feel is defiantly 'clicklier' than my Bettinardi FIT face. Another interesting material putter makers are trying is call Mokume. Using similar process of different materials folded over and over again as Damascus but with a way cooler pattern... this material is often use in Jewelries, rings, bangle, etc. Have seen Tad Moore using it as a face insert (I own one of em putter too) and Nead using this material to make the whole putter ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDM Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Mokume-gane translates to burl metal, it like Damascus in the modern world has nothing to do with folded metal, there are quite a few ways to create the Mokume pattern in various metals, soldering and solid bonding are most popular modern methods, but the reason that pattern becomes so apparent is because of the patination. The reason it is associated with the folding of steel you hear about in Japanese swords is because one of the Jihada(patterns) in the folded steel of Japnese swords is called Mokume, its a burl pattern, as oppsed to a straight grain(Masame) and a wood grain(Itame), the idea of Mokume as you would see it in modern metal and what might be used in putters began in Japanese sword fittings..... The reason why Damascus steel was used in swords and knives originally was because of the combination of a higher carbon steel that was harder and more brittle but held an edge and a lower carbon steel that was more flexible and durable, besides the pattern of original Damascus steel being likened to the patterns in the Japanese sword by the Spanish and Portugese who first came to Japan(the idea continues to this day), the idea of using both lower and higher carbon steels in a single blade is used in both Japanese blades and the original Damascus blades, the difference is, the Damascus steel is a single ingot, the pattern has nothing to do with folding and hammering, the Japanese blade is a laminate with the higher carbon steel wrapped around the lower carbon core and hammered into shape from there, you do not see the lower carbon steel in the pattern of the Japanese blades, the pattern you see is the oxide barriers between the original higher carbon wafers stacked together, hammered into a block, and then folded to get rid of impurities and create a more uniform carbon content. This is the reason the pattern of Damascus steels are so much more apparent than the patterns one sees in the steel of the Japanese blade, in the Damascus steels you are seeing the actual varying carbon content, in a well forged Japanese blade all you are seeing is the oxide barriers between layers of folded steel, there are some Japanese smiths who have purposely used greater variation of the carbon content of the original higher carbon wafers to create a more apparent Damascus like pattern. This is why I keep asking what exactly is the Damascus steel they are using in putters, there is no "standard" for Damascus steel, you could buy a Damascus putter, a Damascus knife, and something else where Damascus steel is used, send it in for testing and have TOTALLY different steels, it could be just about any make up. The only thing Damascus means to me is the pattern and method used to create it, a lot of people seem to be enjoying Damascus putters or Damascus inserts, but what I would like to know is what steel makes up the Damascus steels these putter maker are using, are all of the makers using Damascus of a similar makeup? Does anyone know? Tario has contact with master Sasaya at GF, I would be very interested to know what is the makeup of the Damascus he uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 this is quite an interetiing post bec last week i was having dinner next to the CEO of KAI-knives. we got talking.., and i was discussing damascus bec the knives at the restaurant were his and i was talking about golf. and steel. he invited me up to his palce to see how they are made. and he said in golf its used a bit bec damascus is SO hard, folded 32 times its maybe not so popular. ill ask him if he supplies it. and maybe he can shed some more light on it... from that ive read his knives are pretty much the best there is.amywhere. amnd yes imDEF gettign a set......... http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/classic-ultimate-utility-knife this is the baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I read somewhere on wrx that for Damascus putters, it needs to be wiped down with a silicone cloth of sorts like the Scotty cloth to present the carbon streaks from rusting. Is this true? If yes, it ain't for me and I want a fuss free non maintenance putter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.haha Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I read somewhere on wrx that for Damascus putters, it needs to be wiped down with a silicone cloth of sorts like the Scotty cloth to present the carbon streaks from rusting.  Is this true?  If yes, it ain't for me and I want a fuss free non maintenance putter. I believe this is true but it also depends on the finish you obtain. Machine told me to specifically wipe down my putter with regularity with a silicone cloth and i have a medium maintenance finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdGolf Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Partial true.... All depends how it was finish. My Lajodi Damascus I've only wipe it down after each round, as I would in any putter... and it's all good. I did ask Kari this question once and was told his Damascus is maintainance free... Best is to check with your putter maker.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I believe this is true but it also depends on the finish you obtain. Machine told me to specifically wipe down my putter with regularity with a silicone cloth and i have a medium maintenance finish. Partial true.... All depends how it was finish. My Lajodi Damascus I've only wipe it down after each round, as I would in any putter... and it's all good. I did ask Kari this question once and was told his Damascus is maintainance free... Best is to check with your putter maker.... I'm really not the sort (I was though). I leave it to the bad handlers to wipe down (typically with a damp cloth) and then in the bag till the next range session or round. Nice as it looks, I think I will pass. Ed, Lajossi is 110% no maintenance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdGolf Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I'm really not the sort (I was though). I leave it to the bad handlers to wipe down (typically with a damp cloth) and then in the bag till the next range session or round. Nice as it looks, I think I will pass. Ed, Lajossi is 110% no maintenance? So far.... Both my Lajosi show no sign of rust, even in humid weather here in HK/ Shenzhen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akapur Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Lajosi recomended to me that I wipe the putter with silicone after use and keep in dry putter cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Damascus is another trend, just like GSS. If you guys want a great material try Aluminum, not as cool at all right? but feels really good, soft. On the other side you can use carbon or stainless and get a softer feel than Damascus via certain milling designs. I'm trying a Damascus insert GF on a scotty cameron putter soon. I'm playing that Odyssey Tour iX Black with PZ milling right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) I believe this is true but it also depends on the finish you obtain. Machine told me to specifically wipe down my putter with regularity with a silicone cloth and i have a medium maintenance finish. yes he told me to do the same, it can easily rust. full damamscus with copper insert. 390g head. darn nice on fast greens! Edited August 6, 2013 by supo67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.haha Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 great looking M10 supo. I really like Machine's products. Even if people arent into damascus, Machine will use many other materials to build their putters. im thinking about an aluminum bronze mallet in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 I've started dialogue with Slighter and Machine but not damascus though. Probably some carbon steel answer style with less aggressive face mill to offset the already softer feel of carbon steel. Could add a sound slot to hep with this as well. Both of these guys really do get back real quick. A different kinda look and feel I think from both. Lets see how this works out and which eventually gets the vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Met up with a friend at a club fitter we both frequent and as I am looking for a second putter, I asked him to bring some of his stash just for me to try the feel and to see first hand the quality of finish. He showed up with 7 putters - a couple of SS303 Machines with VMG mill, a 365 grams 303 Slighter (not sure which model), a Nead Mini, a Byron Mini, a Lajosi Damascus and a Piretti (can;t remember the model). Appearance wise, what immediately caught my attention was the Slighter. It had a PZ like mill on the face. Finish was very nice. Nothing over the top just classy. Very dense feel with the 365 gram but the feel was a tad soft for me which is probably down to the deepish face mill. The Byron mini was also very very nice in appearance. Simple clean look and from what I can recall, no face mill. Overly firm feeling. The 2 Machines were as what they are, very industrial like in look. Interesting concept with the vast amount of interchangeability not that I think I'll need or use that feature too much. Felt good though. Nead Mini was a copper head. Didnt like the look, finish or feel at all. Lajosi Damascus was a Carbon Steel damascus with no face mill and felt ok. Stampings of his logo etc was very raw and less refined. Felt ok. Piretti.. for an off the rack putter, I must say, very nice and good. the 365 303 head had the firmest feel of all but had a good roll. For now, I have decided on a Machine so lets see how that custom process with them goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.haha Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Met up with a friend at a club fitter we both frequent and as I am looking for a second putter, I asked him to bring some of his stash just for me to try the feel and to see first hand the quality of finish.  He showed up with 7 putters - a couple of SS303 Machines with VMG mill, a 365 grams 303 Slighter (not sure which model), a Nead Mini, a Byron Mini, a Lajosi Damascus and a Piretti (can;t remember the model). Appearance wise, what immediately caught my attention was the Slighter.  It had a PZ like mill on the face. Finish was very nice.  Nothing over the top just classy. Very dense feel with the 365 gram but the feel was a tad soft for me which is probably down to the deepish face mill. The Byron mini was also very very nice in appearance.  Simple clean look and from what I can recall, no face mill.  Overly firm feeling. The 2 Machines were as what they are, very industrial like in look. Interesting concept with the vast amount of interchangeability not that I think I'll need or use that feature too much.  Felt good though. Nead Mini was a copper head. Didnt like the look, finish or feel at all. Lajosi Damascus was a Carbon Steel damascus with no face mill and felt ok.  Stampings of his logo etc was very raw and less refined.  Felt ok. Piretti.. for an off the rack putter, I must say, very nice and good.  the 365 303 head had the firmest feel of all but had a good roll. For now, I have decided on a Machine so lets see how that custom process with them goes. I tried to get Gene Nead to make a putter as well but when i Had contacted him i believe he was on a leave of absence and no longer making putters.Also, i am having Machine make me an M4 putter. No frills on this one as i want something completely different from my M10. Please let us know how your communication/experience with Machine goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdGolf Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 I tried to get Gene Nead to make a putter as well but when i Had contacted him i believe he was on a leave of absence and no longer making putters.Also, i am having Machine make me an M4 putter. No frills on this one as i want something completely different from my M10. Please let us know how your communication/experience with Machine goes. Gene is back making putters..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Lajosi has a free ship and accessory pack now on select putters for those interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just got off the phone with machine. Quite excited abut this project. Hopefully I can afford what was speced out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdGolf Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Keep us posted A..... with the amount of different set ups, machine is the ultimate transformer putters of our times lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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