supo Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 My last couple of builds have been heavy over330 grams Using the diamana b 80s and the waccine gr88 in jbeam heads tried trusted and massively long Litte did i actually realise how much the weight Ports make a difference to.....EVERYTHinG. In the club Well it was. Proved,on saturday unquestionabley I was playing the 425 tour with diamanab at 328 gram My thoughts wer make it a bit lighter to get abit or ehead speed In actaul fact all it did was totally ruin the abck nine!,!, 4......toped drives....4 I dont think ive topped 4 in my life But when igot it measure dthe swing weight was c8 I cudnt feel the head all back nine. Slifgt difference to thef ron nine with a 200 gram head smae shaft in hte maruman. Conductor and 6/7 fairways split like a bannana peel! Compared to 2/7 back nine I guess the 38/45 score card told the tale Moral ive leanred here is the head weight makes as much difference to the club as anything elese if u want to get repeatable driveing done Dont fk with a winning streak Tomorrow im going to game The jbeam. 425 tour same club 331 gram The jbeam 435 tour with diamana stinger 70x 328 gram The maxima with diamana white the brand newone 70s 326 gram And the 435 with waccine 334 gram Its a hell of a tough tight driving course , this thing tomorrow and while i dont have to put up with the pressure of. A match ill get a pretty good understanding of how these all stack against the kimg of,drivers The ryoma vspec whick just blew the roof of me today Wy do i ahve other drivers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 being captain obvious here but there is a swingweight and there is deadweight and they are totally different things. i like both heavy but the problem is modern heads are just getting lighter and lighter and when you pair them with a heavy shaft in 100g+ range it screws up swing weight alot. i think most heads today are designed for 60g shafts. i know i'm loosing distance by swinging sledgehammers but i just cant get any feel from light setups even if i bring them to about the same swingweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 This is a great thread Stu.....I have just embarked on building my own clubs so will be keen to hear comments posted on this subject, I have had it in my mind for a while now that I am more suited to a much heavier head to shaft ratio as it allows me to play a stiffer flex. I have found through great expense and harassing my local pro to chop and change heads and shafts for me that although my swing speed probably says that I should use a R flex of SR at best by using a heavier head it allows the S flex to work correctly; hence getting the best out of it, I am a big believer that the heavier the head to the shaft the more work you will get out of the shaft maximizing its attributes...interested to know more from TSGs experienced members in this field and hear everyone's thoughts...nice 1 Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDM Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 For the LONGEST time I had almost religiously tried to play drivers as light as possible, shaft weights, head weights, and swing weight, so for me that wound up being 60 gram shafts, and D1 SW's, lately I've been going heavier and heavier and my consistency has been getting downright mechanical, mid 70-mid 80 gram driver shafts with heavier head weights and SW's, I haven't found any noticeable distance loss because the heavier setups seem to keep my tempo in check, my swing just feels more "grooved", and I feel more comfortable going after the ball, if there is any distance loss at all, it palls in comparison to more accurate tee shots and more fairways hit witch winds up equaling more total yardage off the tee throughout a round.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 shaft flex isnt just about swing speed, it also about transition (how aggressive or passive) and feel and the later two play a bigger role in shaft fitting i think (thats my personal non expert opinion tho). interestingly enough when i first got on trackman and started hitting different combos it became evident that the heavier and stiffer the shaft was the more clubhead speed i had which was totally the opposite to what you hear so called 'experts' say. it wasnt an order of magnitude difference but it was measurable and consistent but there was a weight limit where it started to degrade of course. i cant recall exact figures right now but it opened my eyes so to speak to reality of it. does not mean its the same for everybody out there but thats the point. dont listen to anybody of what you should and shouldt play. its your equipment and if it feels right and works then screw 'expert' opinions. I have found through great expense and harassing my local pro to chop and change heads and shafts for me that although my swing speed probably says that I should use a R flex of SR at best by using a heavier head it allows the S flex to work correctly; hence getting the best out of it, I am a big believer that the heavier the head to the shaft the more work you will get out of the shaft maximizing its attributes...interested to know more from TSGs experienced members in this field and hear everyone's thoughts...nice 1 Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocchin Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Ant pretty much hit it on the button. Too many people look at flex and swing speed in a one dimension. Every 100mph golfer swings differently and as ant said transition or as I say swing style plays an even bigger factory than actual swing speed. Heck a super smooth 110mph swinger could excel with an R flex while a ultra aggressive 95mph swinger could use SX. Recently working with fitters at Crazy and ABEX at TRPX we have looked a lot at shaft timing or lack of, and how a shaft matches your swing at meeting the ball. Some shafts require effort when it comes to timing, in other words you need to adjust to the timing of the shaft release while other shafts the timing matches your swing. Swing weight can play a difference to some extent in how a club feels, releases and times impact and even launches. Total weight can also play a factor as a very aggressive player will have a hard time keeping tempo in check with something so light he can't feel. Some manufactuers have actually reversed their thinking and are slowly edging back towards heavier heads. There was a 5 year span where everything got longer in length and lighter meaning heads were lighter than ever. We even saw swing weights around C4 and yes this was for men as manufacturers experimented. But they have come to discover that a heavier head and even heavier combo can create more smash factor. This is not exactly the same aas its quite exaggerated but what would create more damage, a smart car driving 100mph and smashing into a wall or a MACK Truck driving 100mph and smashing into the same wall. So brands have started increasing head weights again and trying to find the right balance of swing weight. Swing weight is afterall about balance. I am a slower swinger but I ended up writing the article heavier and stiffer here: http://www.golftoimp...-impact-part-3/ I talk about weight and stiffness and swing weight choices. Keeping your drivers consistent spec wise will keep your drives consistent especially if you are constantly changing shafts, If they are constantly D1 vs D5 or 305g vs 328g, the differences can throw you off. (we are not pros afterall) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eca Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Ehermm is that my weights Stew :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eca Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Exact same experience. If my driver falls far below 328g It affects my tempo/timing and ability to hit the sweet spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I've been a heavy head fan for a while and if we want more distance, simple physics states we should swing the heaviest head we can as long as it doesn't kill swing speed. And lighter doesn't always give us enough swing speed (or control) to add any significant distance...so here I am. If I listened to any of my builders I wouldn't have made many of my own personal discoveries about what works for me. 70g shafts at flexes supposedly too soft for my swing speed paired with super heavy heads are killing fairways for me, as noted by my current 435. It swingweights at F3 but by all accounts should be unplayable..."otherwise the pros would do it". Guess what...LONG and accurate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDM Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I've been a heavy head fan for a while and if we want more distance, simple physics states we should swing the heaviest head we can as long as it doesn't kill swing speed. And lighter doesn't always give us enough swing speed (or control) to add any significant distance...so here I am. If I listened to any of my builders I wouldn't have made many of my own personal discoveries about what works for me. 70g shafts at flexes supposedly too soft for my swing speed paired with super heavy heads are killing fairways for me, as noted by my current 435. It swingweights at F3 but by all accounts should be unplayable..."otherwise the pros would do it". Guess what...LONG and accurate! That's just downright shameful for someone who builds clubs to make a statement like that, these are guys who should be helping you find what works for you personally, not what works for various tour players, and I've seen some ridiculously unconventional builds/specs from guys on tour that bucks any sort of conventional ideas, its all about personal preference. Main reason for playing 60g range shafts for such a long time was that I noticed a lot of tour players using that weight range and didn't figure I could need heavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLL33 Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 For me, I'm a smooth swing and what I've always looked for in a shaft is the ability for it to disappear between my hands and the ball. I don't know how else to put it. At impact, I want to feel like my hands are in touch with the ball. I think it's part of why I love the t388 driver head, as it has that long time on the face at impact. So for me, a lighter shaft tends to be better. Not so light that I don't feel it at the top during the transition, but not heavy enough to be aware of shaft weight on the way down. I find that if I can feel the shaft's weight on the way down, I release late and am too aware of the shaft being between my hands and the ball. A light weight, just stiff enough shaft that allows me to work the ball at impact rings my bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 i play everything absolutely heavy and get the ball out there with more mass than acceleration. modern day heads can weigh as little as 190g and this is because they are mated to 46+" shafts.....a 200g head would weigh approx 6 swing points more assuming a normal balanced 70g shaft. Therefore it may weigh d2 at 45" and d8 at 46".....I prefer a 202g head with a 96-98g shaft.....i play this combo at 46.25" it doesnt come around that fast (105 normal with 110 being a great fresh day ) this combo really goes for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Ok yesterdays madness hit out proved a cpl of things to me perfectly Hit the jbeam 435 with stinger and waccine. And the 425 with diamana b and maxima with diamana w Listed the specs above Hit a billion balls im sore and sorry today The maxima set up is awsome!,!!,!, That w shaft deserves its. On thread. In fact il do a diamana thread later...., I was swinging thru the bal with great speed and it was holding in perfectly in fact the harder i hit the ball the better the results There isNO doubt that its longer than. The vspec i was plYing same course same conds same everything as the day before and the maxima was. A clublength longer ipurposely hit 5 drives with the vspec onthurs and 5yesterday from excatly the same spot. And the maxima was longer on 3 the vspec dispersion was much much much tighter and distance dispersion was waytighter the maxima was no where near as tight in grouping nor length but it was clearly longer. Over all Both headsare200. Gram thats my thing so theres no discenable club handicaping Then iwa s**ttimg the heavier 435s Now .... I have a clear distance champion its the waccine 435 man that thing is huge iwas flying bunkers that i was rolling nto on thursday one shot is about as good as ican go and on thurs iwas hitting a full 8iron. Hesterday iwa s**tting a wedge Thats one hell of a difference! But.....but...but.... Id not like to have this in the bag if i had a small. Tightness. Orsoreness in my back u migh as well just start walking right all day Its virtually impossible to pull it Mjr d shid get this shaft and forsake all others This shaft is somehting special if ur a strong hitter then this is theone Its one weight too much for me for sure like the gdp9003x this startsreformimg at theabsolute end of my swing spectrum If u gave this to tiger he might hit few fairwaysand wine something meaningfull! Its def one bunch to much for me consistantly but its damn close Iloved this driver its hte mack daddy of all. My drivers Its the mack truck Its the big kahoooooooona burger Its the dalilama but only for certain days its not my gamer day in out Which brings me tothe stinger set up 70x but ichanged the weightings over and ,ade it 4grams heavier What a masterstroke If another person says oh i dont lke the boron bec its too high spin then hes on LSD or hes just lying This thing is the best all round shaft i have ithandles everything its long its not ana nti left beast Nor is it a slice. Killer i was head to head on 7 holes withthe waccineand no doubt the waccine was longer But the stinger might have been 1/2 club behind and oh it was down the pipes every time like the vsepc the day before it was monotinous with its repeatability and Consistancy. If today i had to choose 2of these drivers and throw the rest away Id be an idiot to myself if i didnt take thevsepc diamana x And the 435 stinger Ican make the stinger another 3-4grams heavier and i might be able to replicate the thumpiness of the waccine But for thetighness and not perfect days the vspec is unchallenged inmy book and for wailing the 435 is still my long ball lama king The 425and dimanan bwasatotal flop Back to the drWing bpard on that one even with another 4 grams ot was top and right block city all day Got the s**ts with it and ditched it bec the others were so much better The one i enjoyed hitting the most tho was. Themaxima i love that driver i just need it another cpl of grams thumpier but. Im not sire how todo that yet The maxima is a beat feeling driver and its bloody long The w shaft is a two thumbs up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eca Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Awesome Stew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLL33 Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Great post! I absorbed your adventure like a sponge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDM Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I had VERY similar setups out on the course today to test, 435 was setup exactly the same, specs might have been different, Crazy 435, Waccine GR88 TSX 44.75 inches, D3..... This MIGHT be my new favorite driver EVER, I've hit the 435 ALOT and with ALOT of different shafts, nothing comes close to this one.... nothing.... Its all sorts of a match made in heaven, the shaft definitely isn't for the faint of heart and it definitely does require a lot of power through the ball, for the way I swing as far as tempo, transition, etc. I would say the shaft wants 109 MPH or more, upwards of 110 and its straight as a board, lovely, lively, and LONG.... If I really go after it I can get a little baby draw, didn't see any sort of a pronounced draw or a hook at all, mostly a straight ball or a little fade which I really liked, not only was I quite possibly consistently longer than I've ever been, but the thing is remarkably fun to hit, usually when I find a shaft in the 435 I have enjoyed, it hasn't felt wonderful, but this combo felt excellent. Also had out a 425 Tour with a Stinger 70 Stiff playing to 44.40 inches, I had told myself I wasn't going to mess with the 425 setups I had, but I just felt a compulsion to try out a Stinger in one of my heads figuring I could put the previous shaft back in if it wasn't absurdly good.... it wasn't absurdly good.... it was ridiculously magical.... Wasn't quite as long as the 435/Waccine, but it was more accurate, and not as demanding, I've always loved the 425 tour head, its without a doubt my favorite driver head not considering setups and shafts, but just the head alone, this is my favorite by far. I would say I was about 6-9 yards behind the 435 in general, which isn't bad at all considering how crazy long that setup was for me, I found the Stinger gave me an absolutely ideal trajectory in this head, totally a mid ball flight, not high or low at all, just perfect, VERY strong and more roll then I've had with the Stinger in other drivers previously, no problems getting the ball to move around a bit, can go left or right just fine which is where I think the Stinger really shines in general, its SUPER versatile, yet also very difficult to over power, I guess ill echo what Stew said above, its just SUCH an excellent shaft, don't really know what could be better, on top of that, its a MONSTER in FW's as well.... To score, I would take this over the 435/Waccine setup, but I think I enjoy the 435/Waccine more just based on pure enjoyment. Last driver of the day was a Kamui KPX with a Waccine GR77 SX playing 44.65, I just recently played the Kamui head for the first time during a little trip, with a different shaft, and really liked it, its a head you can really just smash the heck out of and it just begs for more juice, feel isn't lovely, but the performance cannot be argued with.... The GR77 shaft is much more friendly than the 88 and still in a weight class that's been working for me lately, feels wonderful and gives you a lot more room for error and to relax than the 88, Distance was very similar to the 425/Stinger but the flight was a bit different, slightly more carry with this combo, could move the ball very slightly, but not much, I would say that has more to do with the head than the shaft, this head likes to fly dead straight and any movement whatsoever was without a doubt from the shaft being a bit less taught, nothing loose about it at all though, ballflight held up wonderfully, cant really say a bad thing about it, luckily today was one of those days where I couldn't say anything stood out as being better, just all different degrees of lovely in different ways.... Couldn't be happier, big thumbs up on the Waccine shafts, if anyone is thinking of trying them, I would definitely say go for it as they are excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 hmmmmm......since i am always tinkering, decided to try a 117g graphite shaft on a 202 g head, i wonder how this combo will work out ??? waiting for it to dry right now but im pretty sure it will be too stiff for my swing speed, but experimenting is always fun......sometimes it doesnt make sense on paper and specs but will still perform on the range as well as the course..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Will be keen to hear what this plays like....sounds like a monster, make sure you eat some pasta before you go :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 And 5steaks and 4 bannanas Wholly molly thats the tarbosaurs of all shafts ive head of Cant wait for the report there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shacco Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I just recently switched to lightweight shafts on my woods. It just feels like i have to put less effort in the swing. I play 50 gr range shafts in driver, 3w and 5w. But I make sure to keep sw up to D2. That is the key for me to make it playable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Today syard diamana x vs maxima diamana w 70s both Syard head stock 197 gram Maxjma 200g Diamaana w does nit go left Nosirrrrrrreeeeeeee bob Althiugh slighlty heavier nad longer it somwhiw plays lighter higher But do not be mislead this thing will not snap hook The swing.weifht was.prob spot.on.equal d2.5 iah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shambles Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 being captain obvious here but there is a swingweight and there is deadweight and they are totally different things. i like both heavy but the problem is modern heads are just getting lighter and lighter and when you pair them with a heavy shaft in 100g+ range it screws up swing weight alot. i think most heads today are designed for 60g shafts. i know i'm loosing distance by swinging sledgehammers but i just cant get any feel from light setups even if i bring them to about the same swingweight. I probably agree with this post but am not absolutely certain. D1 used to be the upper limit of what I could swing in a Driver back in the days of Persimmon and steel shafts when the longest club was 44" and I was a lot stronger and more eager to practice back then. I was rather surprised a few years ago to discover my Driver was a D 3 and I had days when I could barely feel it. I'm suspecting total weight also counts more than we give it credit for in Driver swing feel. Shambles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 i believe it does. unless you swing real sledgehammers for a living you cant just flick a heavy old persimmon even if you swing weight it very light. i think it affects backswing and transition feels alot. I'm suspecting total weight also counts more than we give it credit for in Driver swing feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteretro Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I favor heavy clubs - woods and irons. Current best driver set- up is a tourstage x drive 10.5 degree head hotmelted to 208gms - motore speeder 7.2 x flex - balance certified 30 gm wood counter balance - no1 53gm mid grip - 44.75 inches. I gamed this club with/without the balance certified 30 gm counterbalance. Sweetspot accuracy with the counter balance approx. 100% better than without counter balance - measured with driver impact tape. Overall result, tighter dispersion and 5-7 yardage gain with counter balance. Supposedly the balance certified wood counter balance does 2 things - 1.increases static weight of club so I can feel it clearly at all times and thus maintain swing angles 2.by stiffening butt, contributes to the hinge effect of driver shaft - it makes for an enhanced hinge 12-13 inches from the butt end of the club - similar to Nunchuk. Has anyone else found better dispersion and distance with the balance certified wood counter balances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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