wedge rumblings ............

[supo]

i was rumbling about my man cave , thumbing my wedges, running a thoughtfull eye over my hoards. and i got to thinking what do i REALLY like about what i have ... i LOVE wedges, i love buying them , i love the differences in them. the looks, the milling , the paint work, the ability to shaft them differntly. i guess i feel they are the art club of the bag.

i spend the most time at the links before practicing with the, wedges. and its my last club thought before walking out the door.....

i have many and varied, and tis not the new ones im particulaly engrossed with.

some of the latter ones im a big fan of ,the new tourstages . the bolds. the fourtesn mt28 and the mizunos.. but my older models make up by far the most part of my colection

so what do icatualyl like ?

after reading pels on chipping , ireaslsid the variety of my wedges are extreme.

ive got high bounce (bolds) , low bounce (marus) , almost zero bounce (egg ) , fat top line ( sakamotos) razor thin soles( yonex) , tiny pear shapes (toustage x-wedge) and out and out buckets. (yururi rafw 08)

grooves that make it almost possible to shave with ( yururi 1.618) and simple pop and run (bolds)

so with htis differnces how on earth can i possibly like , and play them all to the best of thier ability?

i really didnt know what i preferd to very recently.

i wil ltake a differnt set out every round and ususally play them pretty well but the over riding ease of play ive singled out to be..

i like a gap wedge (50-51) with bigger bounce. smaller head and less versatility. i dont need this thing to be opened up like hooker legs most days. i just want to be ble to cut the blazes out of it and get it spinning sideways. i find the smaller compact heads ideal for this. shafted with a heavy lower launch shaft , the monacco TX springs to mind here

the sw ( i like 55-56*) to be the most SKANKY of hooker u cud imagine , i want this wedge to be up. down, black white front back u name it i want this wedge to do evertyhing. bounce on this i need it moderate too much adn i get get under it , to less and i cant hit dow ninto the ball form 75ish yards. without diggign str8 inot the dirt , a heavier shaft in softer flex like an NS ora S is pefect.

the lob wedge i want as a total animal. i want no bounce. fat wide sole . razor thing leading edge and grooves tha twill make a brazilian waxing studio look tame. this will get shafted with a light high launch shaft , ususally NS 950 s gets this job.

and i want to be able to hit make it possible to almost hit oneslf in the nose with it .. its my insurance club , where ill use it prob only in the sand and out of horrible rough.

its taken a while, but that what i like.

so . a "set" of wedges isnt the way ive found i need to go , i need specialities

this year. that set to start off wil be.

50*prgr LED.

55* TS maru.

62* fourteen mt 28 t5 v spec

anyone else give it a lot of thought ???

Edited February 26, 2014 by supo67

[Spoon]

i like your style!

but have to agree with you that wedges

are my vice just as much as shafts but

wedges take the cake. always itching

always craving for more. the difference

between you and me is that i pass them

on to someone before i get new ones.

i seldom have two sets at any given time.

BUT what i have gathered thru the years

is that i am better with a 2 wedge combo

than a 3. dabbled with 50/54/58 and 56/59

in recent months but am now back to my 52/58.

my gap anywhere from 50-52 but currently using

52 with moderate bounce 10-12 is good for me

especially in my lush fairways. i have learned to

dabble and use pw in such a way that I'm better of

moving to a rico suave 52 instead of always hitting

fat shots that disturb worms with those full 50s.

i like a heavier shaft as well. does not have to be high kick

but my favourite as of the moment is the NSPRO WV125.

just cupcakes with lotsa feel. alternatively couple of 8 iron

SP blues are second choice.

for my sand and lob i have switched to a 58. ideally id like this

to have 12-14 of bounce for bunkers and delicate pitches from the fairway

and rough. i could never have used this before but recently learned to use

the bounce of the club to do all the work. i must say i will never go back to a low

bounced wedge again. golf is hard enough and using the bounce makes it just a tad

easier.

i no longer use a lob wedge, I'm fine with my 58 and can open it up making it more bouncy

and forgiving. check youtube for how to use the bounce of your wedge. has helped me a lot.

ive had rc db protos, crazy toyos, kenmochis, bolds, yams, yururis, miura 5000wc and amonst

all of the lot my favourite by far were the miura 5000wc. I'm currently using Epon 213 std 52/58 and

can honestly say that they are the most forgiving wedges Epon has made. may not appeal to the die

hard wedge fanatics but i sold my bolds to get these and am very happy with them. i just wish my 58

had more bounce.

[swing981]

supo 67 great poster..loads of info

[supo]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...,

i getr the incresed bounce idea makes it easier.

lord knows the bolds have been a grea tsuccess, they are prob the simplest of wedges ive eve rsued. took me a while to get them wired coming off a set or7* tourstage marus. but i played theose bolds predominatly last season. they just make it so simple. but liek al lthings i only want to make life more difficult..!

[Spoon]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...,

i getr the incresed bounce idea makes it easier.

lord knows the bolds have been a grea tsuccess, they are prob the simplest of wedges ive eve rsued. took me a while to get them wired coming off a set or7* tourstage marus. but i played theose bolds predominatly last season. they just make it so simple. but liek al lthings i only want to make life more difficult..!

i could be gaming the perfect set of wedges

today, gone tomorrow for something less stellar

repeat at least half a dozen times a year. sound familiar?

and not only talking about wedges.

thats our passion, thats our vice. clean fun.

[Petethepilot]

Stew, Carlo,

as I'm sure you know, the best grind depends on the conditions you are playing off!

My conditions here in southern Tasmania are hugely different to Barnbougle just as they are to Wintery Tokyo and humid Manila.

I work on the principle that Gap wedge is a chipping/pitching/full shot club therefore less bounce in firm conditions but with a beveled edge so it doesn't dig in when it is soft.

Sand wedge needs a bounce for the sand but that depends on the texture. When I played with C, the bunker sand was heavy and soft, so lots of bounce needed (12*+). In Australia 8 to 10* is enough.

Lob wedge should have lowish bounce but how the leading edge sits when it is opened up is more important. Bounce is your friend used properly! I have recently started using a K grind Titleist Vokey design. It is great when opened up and its widish sole just won't dig in.

Happy times guys.

Pete

[RIduffer]

I need to start giving wedges more thought...

[IshikawaFAN]

I still haven't found a wedge to kick my vokeys out of the bag.

[chiromikey]

If you count the pw, my bag is a 4 wedge set-up. However, I've recently admitted to myself that I truly only "play" one wedge...my 61*. If I could get a club maker to build a set with a gap and sand wedge (50/54) that are a true continuation of my irons I'd be the happiest of campers. I pretty much play those clubs like I do all my scoring irons (8, 9, pw). It's only my 61 that I get creative with. Any shot from 75yds in and it gets the call...high shots, pitches, flop shots, bump & runs, bunker shots...you name it if it's within 75yds.

I realize that set up would make for a pretty boring bag to look at but I also think it would simplify my game and make my scoring game more consistent.

[Miuramaniac]

I need to start giving wedges more thought...

This. I've been playing a 52 with medium bounce and a 58 with higher bounce for years and never even think about it. Whether they be the Miura WC's, custom grinds, Yamaha Inpress, whatever, they all seem to play about the same for me once I get used to them.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Miuramaniac

[Petethepilot]

Mikey,

61 is an unusual loft. I have a Titleist 'Elk' limited edition that is wonderful. T is probably 18 years old and I have only stopped gaming it as the grooves are going!

I too play my wedge and gap wedge (52) as an extension of my set, although I am happy with them for chipping as well. My Sand iron and lob wedge are my main short game clubs, both are Vokey TVD's at the moment. I would be happy to use JDM but these have the grind that works for me best!

Pete

[Tim James]

Awesome topic and valuable info shared. I may need to reconsider my wedge setup ~ thanks for the insight

[RIduffer]

When I indicated that I need to pay more attention to my wedges, I did not mean that I am oblivious, just not as attentive to grind and bounce as I am feel and other perf characteristics. I tend to play a 3 wedge setup, usually all from same mfg if not the same line. The exceptions to that is the Crazy Toyo which is a 52/58 pari to which I added a RomaRo and a recent acq of the Yururi Tour which is a 52/58 combo as the PDG irons are more traditional lofts and the 52 should play naturally into the set with the 58 intended to serve up the majority of touch and feel shots around the green.

I have played the Bold, Chikara, George Spirit, Maruman KS Zero and several others. Different grinds, sole design, bounces etc and like Miuramaniac said after a short acclimation period I played them all equally well or poorly depending on perspective.

My comment was more about bucking my own trend and seeing if I can discern any clues about shot type and grind/head shape/bounce and the like as Stew indicated...

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I've seen brands claim the east coast grind vs west or Miura NA say that their grinds are better outside of Japan than Miura Giken I personally don't buy any of that. Within the same state conditions vary, i.e in Japan I've played mushy and very hard on courses a short distance from each other so most important to me having a wedge that works for my swing.

I'm a 3 wedge guy usually PW/52/58 as I do find 60* to be less reliable and I also pull it out when I really shouldn't. I consider it a specialty club for those who require that type of shot more than others. I also rather have an extra UT in the bag so I really don't have the space for anything more.

[chiromikey]

Mikey,

61 is an unusual loft. I have a Titleist 'Elk' limited edition that is wonderful. T is probably 18 years old and I have only stopped gaming it as the grooves are going!

I too play my wedge and gap wedge (52) as an extension of my set, although I am happy with them for chipping as well. My Sand iron and lob wedge are my main short game clubs, both are Vokey TVD's at the moment. I would be happy to use JDM but these have the grind that works for me best!

Pete

Hey Pete, I agree 61 is unusual. What's more unusual is to find out someone else still plays their ELK because that's the 61* I was talking about! I've tried many times and spent a lot of money to replace it and nothing comes close. My grooves are wasted and the sole is so worn that the name is almost completely worn off...but it still out performs everything! It's the only non JDM club in my bag and it sticks out like a sore thumb! I even found another ELK but it didn't feel the same so it's just sitting in my house. Damn that wedge!

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Ah yes the 2 of the same wedge that don't perform like each other, had that a couple of times. Are the builds the same? Also had it in fairway woods.

Tabuchi-san may be able to come close to duplicating that ELK 61*visually as he starts with extra heavy heads to dictate the shape.

[supo]

ive been looking for a continuation of the irons for eons. even the PW in most bags irks me

that extra cpl of degrees loft from 9-pw makes a monumantal differnce to me.

ive bought a cpl or yururi pw (46* ) which i bent to 48 and 49 to compensate a cpl of sets.

the closest ive found to seemless is the prgr LED to the prgr idbl set.

they suit perfectly

[chiromikey]

Ah yes the 2 of the same wedge that don't perform like each other, had that a couple of times. Are the builds the same? Also had it in fairway woods.

Tabuchi-san may be able to come close to duplicating that ELK 61*visually as he starts with extra heavy heads to dictate the shape.

I might have to consider this!

[chiromikey]

ive been looking for a continuation of the irons for eons. even the PW in most bags irks me

that extra cpl of degrees loft from 9-pw makes a monumantal differnce to me.

ive bought a cpl or yururi pw (46* ) which i bent to 48 and 49 to compensate a cpl of sets.

the closest ive found to seemless is the prgr LED to the prgr idbl set.

they suit perfectly

I was hoping the gekkus would flow a bit better with the flatbacks. The Flatback pw is perfect and I would kill to have a gw/sw that looked like that bad boy!!!

[Spoon]

the pw is the most difficult club in my bag to hit to be honest

its like i freeze and have no confidence. much rather hit a knock down

9 which usually leaves me long or short depending on wind.

so i am contemplating going to a wedge wedge in either 46/48 or getting

an aftour pw bent to 46/47

[supo]

that not a bad idea at all. the aftour pw is prob the most safe of the sets ive used. i dont change that out

[Petethepilot]

Hi guys after reading and contributing to this post, I believe the time is right to give my take on wedge game/setup.

Firstly, to truly be good (or at least better) at these shots, one must first look at your own technique and then at what is the best.

Only by knowing what you do and what the best do can you firstly ;

Make the right decisions about what type of wedge setup you need

Improve you technique for greater consistency and results!

Both of these things will contribute to vastly improved scoring.

I wish to state up front that I am not a pro!

I have been a low handicap amateur since age 14 (I am presently 51). I haven't played off higher than 3 since that time and I have been to scratch numerous times! I am currently off 1 and represent my club as part of the Div1 team in provincial championships. All of this with only an average long game (compared to my fellow players). Where I have excelled in is wedge play and short game. When I kept stats a couple of years ago, I was averaging 81% (122/150 shots over a 6 month period) from 100 yards to 50 yards to inside 15' or less.

It is a strength of mine and something I play for when competing.

With that out of the way, my method of wedge play is similar to the acknowledged greats in this type of shot!

Steve Stricker, Zack Johnston, Tom Kite and Justin Leanord all have one thing in common with their technique!

They all use a passive release of their hands through a wedge shot and control distance by torso rotation, both the rotation speed and the length of their backswing (ie amount of rotation)! What this gives them is a shallow angle of attack into the ball and a consistent strike and spin on the ball. With these things happening, distance control comes down to practice to fine tune how far the hit each shot. Those 4 pro's have all put the time in on the range. You will of course see them vary that shot (ie. in rough etc) but never if they are in the 'vanilla' middle of fairway position!

The streaky wedge players tend to use a lot of wrist/hand action with steep angles of attack. Sure they can hit good shots but over the course of the season, they hit a lot of poor wedge shots too! Rory is very inconsistent with his wedge play! Tiger when he first came out could hit a PW 140 one shot and 180 the next. That's why he went to Butch Harmon so as to better control his Angle of attack into the ball!

How do you do this? Practice your backswing to a left arm (for the right hander) level to the ground (I call that 9 o'clock position). Cock your wrists normally and maintain the wrist angle. Simply rotate through the ball whilst attempting to maintain that angle (continue to lead with the left hand) and finish in a hands high above your shoulder in your normal follow through position. To hit the shot further rotate through a bit faster. When you approach 90% maximum rotation speed, simply take the club back a little further and again gauge distance via rotation speed! With practice you will quickly be able to very accurately control and feel distance and the spin imparted will be very similar on each shot.

What does this mean to me wrt wedge selection.

If you are a digger ie. big divots from using lots of hands and steep AoA. You need a wedge that gives you a chance! Don't get something that looks like a knife. Have a beveled leading edge (not sharp) with enough bounce depending on your conditions (soft conditions more bounce!) to help you reduce your divot depth. Shallow divots is good for wedge play!

(For those that don't know, bounce acts like an aero foil and prevents the leading edge from continuing on a downward decelerating path into the turf/sand)

If you flick at the ball (right hand leading left through the shot) you actually need less bounce although examining your technique with a teaching pro would do you more good than a shiny new wedge!

Short game shots around the green is a whole different (but similar) topic. Best to get some lessons or at least video some shots to look at how you are trying to play these shots. Imagination and practice are the key. Great hands help as Victor showed in the match play final last week.

Hope that helps a little bit.

Regards,

Pete

Edited February 27, 2014 by Petethepilot

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Awesome contribution Pete, thank you!

[Petethepilot]

Another thing to add to my post.

Lie angles are just as important as bounce/grind.

If you have too upright a lie angle, you will tend to catch the heel of the club. The heel will slow down relative to the toe and the face will turn over. Short left shots will result. Too flat (as I played for a while ) and short rights will prevail. Stock may not be the answer. A lie board session under guidance from someone who knows will sort you out.

Finally, the grind will decide the characteristics of the club reference how the club passes through the grass. A wide sole will help diggers on softer ground although a wide sole (like my k grind vokey) can play with little bounce when square and lots of bounce when opened up!

Too many possibilities. Look up stuff from Tom Wishon on the net. Also, a wedge grind wizard by the name of James Patrick has some good info. Saying that, some of the best grinders in the world are JDM. Learn yourself then get a wedge that will assist you...then practice.

P.S. I think my 61* Titleist Elk got better as the sole got more used. Pity the grooves didn't. I will post a photo of it when I get back from Shanghai.

Pete

Edited February 27, 2014 by Petethepilot

[zwan]

Thank you Pete, Stew and all the other contributors for sharing your insight with us! Awsome!