jboy Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 These phrases mean nothing nowadays, Scotty Cameron appears to have built 500,000 prototypes but has a product line of 200 or so, with all the tours around the world there must be a billion tour issue clubs out there, guys in their workshop garages knocking out stamped up fakes. Who really cares ??? Half the clowns buying this crap couldn't thrash their way out of a wet paper bag. First up all these tour shop knock ups look crap anyway in my book, they have a shelf life of a prawn sandwich (once they launch into production, it's old hat) Shouldn't we be happy with production run clubs that meet our specs and needs... or do we have to satisfy our need to pose and fuel our ego of having pre-tour release equipment ?? Where is your balance? Playability, aesthetics, uniqueness, innovation, how do you weight them ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillypete Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I have taken this stance for a while... I play mostly all retail. however I can see some peoples reasons. Some people really like those open faces that can only be found or tour issues. And some people really like the floating faces that can only be found on CT's. I have my "prototype" but thats cause its not available in a production putter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLMelton Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I've personally avoided buying anything that was a prototype or tour issue because it's not something that I had the chance to try out and see if it was right for my game. A prototype club, to me, is one that is the first in the line and may not have all of the problems worked out of it. I think it should be only the first few off the line that are used to determine if the club is worth going to full production with. I think of a "tour issue" as a club that was made specifically to fit a certain tour pro with their swing characteristics in mind. About the only "tour issue" clubs that I would like to have would be something special, like the putter David Duval used to score a 59 with or something special like that. Other than that I don't see the need to buy Stuart Appleby's Z101s and pay some extravagant amount for them. They are all wrong for me and I would have to get them worked on before I could use them. That being said, there are those who are very interested in prototype and tour issue clubs. They like the novelty and uniqueness of them, they may buy them as collectors items or to use them personally and will pay top dollar to get them. That's their choice and I won't say someone is wrong becuase they do it, it's just not my thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HipCheck Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Mmmm........prawn sandwich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Mmmm........prawn sandwich :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studatnu Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I'm pretty much done with "Tour" stuff, I get the same results from the retail stuff. Some of it is cool like the R500 which is Tour only but I see no sense in picking up a 510 Tour or a tour wedge and so fourth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primo Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 My first question to all you haters out there is how many tour clubs have you actually owned? If you have ever seen a tour TM driver vs a retail I think the differences are obvious. If you've hit it, even more so. My tour Fusion was completely different than the retail version. I owned both at the same time. They had different shapes, different weighting, difference face angles. Often the tour club has a more desirable shaft that you can either resell as a pull best case scenario I like it. I do agree that tour clubs will not suite the average golfer... Bottom line is most likely Tour clubs are a love/hate relationship. They are either going to be good for you, or completely wrong for you, all depends on your swing. thing is if they do suite you, them most likely retail will not. but don't hate the playa, hate the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLMelton Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 My first question to all you haters out there is how many tour clubs have you actually owned? If you have ever seen a tour TM driver vs a retail I think the differences are obvious. If you've hit it, even more so. My tour Fusion was completely different than the retail version. I owned both at the same time. They had different shapes, different weighting, difference face angles. Often the tour club has a more desirable shaft that you can either resell as a pull best case scenario I like it. I do agree that tour clubs will not suite the average golfer... Bottom line is most likely Tour clubs are a love/hate relationship. They are either going to be good for you, or completely wrong for you, all depends on your swing. thing is if they do suite you, them most likely retail will not. but don't hate the playa, hate the game No hating from here. TM drivers are definitely different. Never owned but have hit both a TM 510 TP tour issue and a retail and the tour was definitely the better feeling club. Didn't really take to either one but I'm sure if there was a certain club that I was able to hit that was a tour only issue and it seemed to be a great fit for my swing, I would be going nuts trying to scratch up the cash to get it. I do have to agree with jboy that the phrases mean nothing now. Prototype and tour get thrown around for a lot of mainstream products. Caveat emptor seems to fit this topic well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcap26 Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Personally my game has benefited from the tour issue driver and three wood I carry. I do not and I mean do not need any help finding the left side of the golf course and 99.9% of the retail equipment made is weighted and setup to encourage a draw or straight ball for the slicers. My game has improved every since I found the driver I have (thanks to neon8s). I do not worry about the hooks I fought with every other retail driver I tried and trust me there have been many. So for some yes tour issue is not for you if you need help fighting a certain shot that retail is set up for. I need the opposite and I have found it in the tour issue clubs I own. I could care less what any of my playiung partners think of my equipment and I do not advertise it is tour issue out on the course. I think you would be stupid if you did not take advantage of technology that helps your specific game and not the masses. My.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboy Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Great responses. I think most people round here objectively look at the tour clubs and judge them on peformance and playability rather than keeping sticks in their bag as some sort of totem. All the bag profiles here are mix of retail, import and some strange quirky clubs, a bag that works. My main point was that equipment manufacturers have played up on 'prototyping' to create mass hysteria That Scotty Cameron garage putter at the bottom of a pond was just pure Hollywood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 I tried the Tour Issue route, For my game it wasn't a smart move, I play a fade and the TM DF's I have owned turned a sloppy swing into a slice. I did have great results from a Tour DF built for a woman LPGA player, The face was square and it seemed just as good as the retail version TP. I'm now building a TM Tour Bag, It is work in progress but it will look something like this: Driver: R7 Max C.O.R Tour Issue 9.5 w/Fujikura 584HK FW's TM V-Steel Tour 15*, 18* Tour 200 smooth, 21* Tour 200 Smooth Irons: Lehman grind 300 forged Wedges: TM Tour Issue Black SW & LW Putter: TM XR05 monza Belly putter Bag: TM R7 Japan Staff Bag I have the FW's, The Driver is paid for and coming as soon as the Tour JPGA player can get a second Tour Issue R7. I am going to give TM one more try thanks to the retail R7 being so damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 I tried the Tour Issue route, For my game it wasn't a smart move, I play a fade and the TM DF's I have owned turned a sloppy swing into a slice. I did have great results from a Tour DF built for a woman LPGA player, The face was square and it seemed just as good as the retail version TP.I'm now building a TM Tour Bag, It is work in progress but it will look something like this: Driver: R7 Max C.O.R Tour Issue 9.5 w/Fujikura 584HK FW's TM V-Steel Tour 15*, 18* Tour 200 smooth, 21* Tour 200 Smooth Irons: Lehman grind 300 forged Wedges: TM Tour Issue Black SW & LW Putter: TM XR05 monza Belly putter Bag: TM R7 Japan Staff Bag I have the FW's, The Driver is paid for and coming as soon as the Tour JPGA player can get a second Tour Issue R7. I am going to give TM one more try thanks to the retail R7 being so damn good. Chris I'm almost afraid to ask , but I will any ways :P Anymore 21* 200 Smoothies out there that you could get ?? :) PLease just say yes or no , and don't give me a price if there are I don't need to have the big one today :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeezx Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 I just recently (within th epat 3 months) found out through message forums like this that TOUR issue clubs could be bought and that it was actually a very common practice. 8) For a while though, I never figured it even mattered if you had a tour club or not.. why pay $200 more for a club without a serial number? Then I started learning more, reading more reviews and comments, and seeing clubs I like being used by PGA pros... I.E. CHIII using a Cally GBBII 415. I am about to purchase a GBBII TOUR driver with the shaft I've always wanted and am really expecting great things. It will be my first tour issue club purchase, so I can't base my opinions on performance except the performance I've seen by CHIII and his Cally drivers. :twisted: (I know I don't swing like CHIII, but it's still cool to see him bomb 'em) I will say that there is a HUGE novelty factor when buying tour issue. Granted it is most likely coming from a mini-tour player ro someone lesser known, but it's still cool to know you own a high-caliber club that has been used in high-end competition. If it was used by a bigger name... then that's even better! :) I'm sure I'll hit it just the same as my current setup, but I do believe the different face angles and slightly different shapes make the tour clubs truly unique... I'll be sure to update on the performance as soon as I get my new driver. -Vann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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